yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 17, 2008 17:29:45 GMT -5
If that's the way you choose to approach life, that's your prerogative. You may find as you grow older that you are more open to other points of view. Also, comparing the show to real life is one of the things that makes watching Avatar so fun. Regardless of what relationships do or do not occur in the show, I'm really interested in seeing what message Mike and Bryan intended to convey by them, as well as what real-life experiences might have prompted such a storyline. I don't imagine I'll ever be privy to such information, though... but it would be nice background. I don't really think the writers are intending to convey anything at all with their choices of romance. All they're doing is trying to tell what they think is a good story. No hidden meaning or anything, they just know that romance is an important part of these kind of epics. All the same, that does not mean we need agree with their creative choice. Even if it happens, and you don't like it, that does not make you wrong. Not in the slightest.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Jan 17, 2008 21:43:21 GMT -5
^ Eh, I don't know. I'd like to believe so, but with Aang's discussion with Iroh about choosing power or love, together with his chakra trouble, the Koh subplot, and the Avatar Kuruk comic, it seems that they may make relationships emblematic. Of what, who knows ~ perhaps the value of sticking together, or of not being attached. Or of letting go and sacrificing. We'll have to wait and see on that one. And I did see Maiko coming from miles off, ever since Mai's blush at Ty Lee's comment about Zuko. So I was expecting it to become canon... but I was hoping it would be told differently, or at least with more screentime. And no, I don't think anybody's wrong.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Jan 17, 2008 21:54:56 GMT -5
Why? They put Zuko with Mai with absolutely no build up, foreshadowing or strengthening... True, it was sudden. But, it's a helluva more believable within the story structure than Zutara. Before Awakening, Mai had romantic thoughts/a crush on Zuko when she was young; she smirked when his name was mentioned. I'd put her towards "like Zuko". Zuko...well, considering that we saw no evidence as to how he feels, I'm gonna put him in the middle, between like and dislike, with regards to Mai. So you have some guy in the middle and a girl who probably likes him, and when you bring them together and let them catch up over the last 3 years on a boring ship...things happen. But again, it was sudden. I won't deny that.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 18, 2008 2:08:47 GMT -5
With all due respect, Malkia Moran, there is evidence to support that Mai had a thing for Zuko...I've never denied that...but there was absolutely nothing to indicate that Zuko even knew she existed outside the fact that she was his sister's friend. The only interaction we saw between them was in flashback when he saved her from being burned, after which he said girls are crazy. I'm sure I'm not alone is seeing this as just reinforcing the fact that he's a decent guy who doesn't want to see people get hurt. I would have done the same thing...does that mean I have a crush on Mai?
I really don't give a dang about the ships anymore...I don't care for any of them...and I'm more than use to disappointment from these guys.
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Post by Malkia Moran on Jan 18, 2008 13:50:16 GMT -5
I'm sure you would have done the same, and no, it doesn't automatically mean you like the person romantically.
But this isn't real life. This is a story that has arcs and storylines, to the point where it's not that hard to figure the eventual outcome. There's a reason why they had Zuko saving Mai, the person who we know to have a crush on him, because they wanted to show a particular connection between them. They could have had Ty Lee with the burning apple on her head, but the important thing is that they didn't.
No, I don't believe the scene was just to show that Zuko is a good guy, because we already knew that and the rest of the episode proved that. They've made a point out of the fact that Zuko isn't a bad guy since the second episode, you could say. Like I said, if they just wanted to show that Zuko's nice, they would have put Ty Lee in Mai's place. This is why I did think Zuko had something of a crush on Mai , because of the romantic undertones (again, because they specifically have Zuko white-knighting the girl who likes him).
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 18, 2008 20:53:04 GMT -5
Foreshadowing was not the problem with Maiko. We're perfectly capable of accepting two complete strangers getting together romantically within a couple of days (and the time between seasons was 3 weeks).
The problem was we didn't SEE it. They just dumped it on us, without hardly any effort. We got no actual build up of conversation between them. They hadn't exchanged two words to each other...ever...that we've seen on screen, and in their VERY FIRST scene together, they're making out. It was very baffling to many people. And first impressions last.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 18, 2008 22:10:31 GMT -5
With all due respect, Malkia Moran, there is evidence to support that Mai had a thing for Zuko...I've never denied that...but there was absolutely nothing to indicate that Zuko even knew she existed outside the fact that she was his sister's friend. The only interaction we saw between them was in flashback when he saved her from being burned, after which he said girls are crazy. I'm sure I'm not alone is seeing this as just reinforcing the fact that he's a decent guy who doesn't want to see people get hurt. I would have done the same thing...does that mean I have a crush on Mai? Actually, I did see forshadowing that Zuko cared for Mai. When we saw that flashback, we saw azula whisper to Ty-Lee, as she put a plan into action to minipulate and humilate zuko. Why did she not whisper this little plan to Mai and mai and pit an apple on Ty-Lees head? because she knew that zuko would react over-the-top with mai involved. at least thats me playing devils advocate.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 18, 2008 22:17:56 GMT -5
Because it's more fun to humiliate the stoic one who has an obvious crush than the playful one who doesn't. They were making fun of Mai and using Zuko to do it...I still don't see anything from Prince 'girls are crazy' Zuko in that.
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Silent_E
Appa
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Jan 19, 2008 0:42:52 GMT -5
I can agree with what Moran is saying (except about the blush coming from Zuko.) Even though it wasn't straightforward, Zuko may have felt something for Mai given his reaction with the burning apple. Now, we know he feels that special something for Mai.
What people have to understand is that romance is not a big part of the storyline when concerning Zuko. In fact, romance really wasn't apart of his storyline until season 3. I'm not saying you have to like Maiko (I'm not really fond of it myself), but it had enough development considering the romance aspect of Zuko's story.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 19, 2008 0:56:49 GMT -5
If romance is not a big part of Zuko's story why bother with it at all? It hasn't changed his character, nor has it added much to Mai's.
As much as I dislike the pairing they had to have put it in there for a reason. About all I can see is that Mai is going to be Zuko's Achillies Heel...she's going to be used against him in much the same way Suki was used against Sokka...
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jan 19, 2008 1:24:44 GMT -5
If romance is not a big part of Zuko's story why bother with it at all? It hasn't changed his character, nor has it added much to Mai's. As much as I dislike the pairing they had to have put it in there for a reason. About all I can see is that Mai is going to be Zuko's Achillies Heel...she's going to be used against him in much the same way Suki was used against Sokka... I always saw the Maiko relationship as part of the whole "this is why the path your father wanted for you" sucks.
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Silent_E
Appa
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Jan 19, 2008 1:24:50 GMT -5
I don't understand, their relationship with each other gave them some depth. It showed how committed Zuko is. He hadn't seen Mai in three years during his banishment, and he still loves her. (Hate to say it, but when Zuko told Jin his "It's complicated" excuse, it wouldn't be out of this world to think that Mai could have been one of the things that made it so) As for Mai, Zuko is helping her become more passionate about life.
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inuyatta
FN Aang
The joy of SoKo comes at a heavy price...my sleep, for example
Posts: 1,852
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Post by inuyatta on Jan 19, 2008 1:34:15 GMT -5
I have to slightly disagree--Zuko has helped Mai to express herself more--that doesn't seem like much, but for a character whose main flaw was ennui, he's put her a step closer to resolving her issues--maybe Mai will finally be able to stand up for herself, and then maybe Ty Lee will learn to do the same.
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Silent_E
Appa
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Jan 19, 2008 1:39:39 GMT -5
I have to slightly disagree--Zuko has helped Mai to express herself more--that doesn't seem like much, but for a character whose main flaw was ennui, he's put her a step closer to resolving her issues--maybe Mai will finally be able to stand up for herself, and then maybe Ty Lee will learn to do the same. Exactly, Mai and Ty Lee have never seen anyone stand up to Azula except Zuko. Zuko's latest stunt of leaving the Fire Nation should really open their eyes.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 19, 2008 1:46:54 GMT -5
When did Zuko stand up to Azula?
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