Relationship Discussion in 312 and beyond

[Silent_E]

nandireya said:

When did Zuko stand up to Azula?

Well he stood up to her alot of times, but almost immediately gets handled two seconds afterward. However, for him to betray his father (and essentially betray Azula), that would open Mai's eyes. Later on they will probably discuss why he did it. Mai will come to her own decision on where she stands and perhaps Ty Lee will to.

[nandireya]

Which could still be with their best friend...their famlies...their country...

Ty Lee's a major kiss-up and Mai's got to be pretty ticked about being dumped for a 12-year-old boy.

It could still go either way.

[inuyatta]

It could. It definitely could.

I'm actually leaning towards Mai and Ty Lee splitting off from the war altogether--it's really the only option that makes sense to me. They don't particularly care about liberating the people, nor do they care to fight against the Avatar and the Gaang. This way, they don't betray Zuko or Azula. XD

[Silent_E]

That's true, Mai may love Zuko, but is she truly willing to leave everything she has ever known for him. Of course if she does decide to stick with Azula, that would mean she and Zuko are enemies. Would she be willing to fight or even kill him for the life she's comfortable with?

[inuyatta]

I'm leaning towards 'no'--I remember hearing that the creator's like Mai--so I doubt they're going to really change her so drastically. She's not an outright evil character, but she's also not a good guy by any stretch of the word either--if they're going to make her into a decent, developed character, Mai will be able to stand on her own instead of having all of her actions depend on Azula and Zuko. It'd be highly unrealistic for Mai to suddenly become a good guy because she started to give a flip about the common-folk, esp. this late in the game--so I don't see her siding with Zuko and the Gaang...but I also really don't see her fighting against them either.

Then again, I haven't seen Mai or Ty Lee really do anything this season other than suck face, whine and flirt. =\

[yiceman]

Yeah I really don't see Mai and Ty Lee doing anything crucial or...serious...at this point. They existed as humorous minions for one season, and then pretty much lost purpose. They've brought nothing to the plot and will probably continue on that path.

[nandireya]

Mai: *dismissive wave of her hand* "Just kill the Fire Lord..."

[dragonflly]

nandireya said:

Because it's more fun to humiliate the stoic one who has an obvious crush than the playful one who doesn't. They were making fun of Mai and using Zuko to do it...I still don't see anything from Prince 'girls are crazy' Zuko in that.

I really have to agree with this. Azula whispered to Ty Lee AFTER she saw MAI blush when looking at Zuko, there was nothing from Zuko for Azula to be picking on. He hadn't even been aware of Mai being there until Azula spoke to her mother about them playing together. She was picking on Mai, she thought it would be funny. As for the apple, ya I would've done the same thing, and I don't even LIKE Mai. I'd do it for anyone, I have a heart and don't want anyone to get hurt. There was a FLAMING APPLE on the girl's head, was he supposed to just stand there and watch it burn? That would not have been very Zuko-like, now would it?

As for Zuko's blush, yep I saw it. Nothing at all mentioned about Mai when he did it either. Azula insulted him, she said he wasn't any good with knives, then he turned red out of anger at the statement. It really wasn't blushing, don't you get red when you're angry? I know I do.

As for his date with Jin, I saw the whole thing as adorable. It seemed Zuko was immensly awkward around girls, like he was never around them much. He certainly seemed to be on his first date, just the way he acted. As for his "it's complicated" statement, he was lying to her from his name to where he was from and what he did before he went to Ba Sing Se. Everything he told her about himself was a lie. It was obvious Jin liked him, so was he to continue the lie and hurt her even worse when she found out the truth or say that and walk away? How can you have a relationship(friend or other) based on a lie? The actions leading up to the kiss seemed to lead me to the conclusion that this was the first girl he kissed. The hesitation, and awkwardness. Had he kissed before, it wouldn't have been so.....ya can just tell. Didn't you act similar with your first kiss? My first kiss was my first boyfriend's first kiss and he acted just like that, it was adorable and I'll never forget it. You don't forget things like that, they make ya laugh later in life.

Everyone see things differently, I for one didn't catch this "foreshadowing" of the relationship. I saw and still see things in a different light. But I also agree that if romance was not a huge thing for Zuko's story, why did they do it at all? It really makes no sense. But M&B have stumped and disappointed me alot this season, so who knows? It was certainly done for a reason and the way it was done was for a reason. I don't think it's gonna end well for Maiko, but I could be wrong. They like to kill me a bit on the inside so I'm not holding my breath. Nandireya's Achillies heal theory sounds like a good bet, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.


As far as the rest of the season, I have always thought that Ty Lee would leave Azula's side, but I'm not so sure now. She is a major suck up and something big would have to happen for her to turn on Azula. And Mai, I have stated before that I would be disappointed if Mai decides to leave the FN and join up with Zuko, just because he's Zuko. We have seen nothing to indicate that she gives a rat's butt about anything but herself. She doesn't seem to have trouble being the bad guy, she's not conflicted about that, nor does she seem to care about the common folk from her or any other nation. She certainly does not seem to disagree with the war, but we have seen no indication that she doesn't either. They'd have to make very drastic changes with her to have her go off Zuko for the "right reasons". I need more than "I love Zuko, I will follow him". She needs to feel the same as Zuko, her heart needs to be in the same place as his is now, otherwise it's not gonna work. That's only my opinion, but it would be cheesey and portray the wrong message to me. Love DOESN'T conquer all, not in this case. If Mai were to all of a sudden become a good guy and care about the poor common folk, I would feel cheated. It'd be like them forcing us to see something that hasn't been there, ya know, the "we like her, so she's good now, like her dang it!", thing. It would make heads spin, she is by far not a good guy. I guess what I'm trying to say is she'd have to follow him for the right reasons, and loving him is just not good enough for me. Does that make sense?


My opinion only, but I could handle her on her own, not with Zuko or Azula. Maybe her and Ty Lee together, trying to figure out what they really want, and how to live with the changes to the only world they knew.

[mahatista]

Agree with Dragonflly & Nandireya. As usual.

And also want to point out Zuko's even greater risk to his life when he climbed the bridge tower during a lightning storm to save his helmsman.

He really must've had strong feelings for that guy.

If they were trying to show his deep and abiding affection for Mai by his attempt to save her from the burning apple on her head, they sure picked a silly episode to do it in. The same episode where he risked a great deal to save Lee from the Earth Kingdom soldiers.

He's gallant. Like a prince should be. I think that was the point.

(he's also a bit screwy in the head as evidenced by some of his past choices but they've also shown us the above, which is why his character is interesting and popular)

[dragonflly]

^^I completely forgot about the helmsman! Great memory there! And yeah, how many times has he done something like that, risking himself to help someone, and when he didn't have to? It's Zuko in a nut shell, it's the way he is!

And you're right, he's exactly what a Prince sould be. Gallant, honest, handsome.........isn't that like all the Prince's in fairy tales are like?

[Ana]

dragonflly said:

She certainly does not seem to disagree with the war, but we have seen no indication that she doesn't either. They'd have to make very drastic changes with her to have her go off Zuko for the "right reasons".

No, they would not and you actually just explained why. Mai has shown no opinions on the war. Mai lives in a propaganda-fueled society that has done nothing but tell her this war is good. She has never fought innocent people any more than the Gaang has fought innocent people. How does Mai require very drastic change for her to listen to someone/Zuko who gives her (or she finds it herself) the perspective to look beyond the propaganda and go "Oh. All this really isn’t quite right"?

mahatista said:

And also want to point out Zuko's even greater risk to his life when he climbed the bridge tower during a lightning storm to save his helmsman.

Well, I don't see why you're pointing it out because it completely misses the point. Unless my memory is mistaken, the show did not point out how helmsman had romantic feelings (as these feelings would have been previously established) for Zuko and how they were "so cute together". Nor was that entire rescue based around said romantic feelings.

[mahatista]

anastasia14 said:

mahatista said:

And also want to point out Zuko's even greater risk to his life when he climbed the bridge tower during a lightning storm to save his helmsman.

Well, I don't see why you're pointing it out because it completely misses the point. Unless my memory is mistaken, the show did not point out how helmsman had romantic feelings (as these feelings would have been previously established) for Zuko and how they were "so cute together". Nor was that entire rescue based around said romantic feelings.

Which was exactly my point. Uh did anybody else not get that?

No, Zuko didn't have romantic feelings for his helmsman. Neither did he have romantic feelings for Lee. Ergo neither did his flaming apple rescue of Mai evidence romantic feelings.

Clear now?

[nandireya]

I think the point there is that Zuko saved the helmsman and Zuko saved Mai...his rescuing people in danger doesn't prove that he has romantic feelings for them just that he's a decent guy who doesn't want to see people get hurt.

Some people have argued that Zuko saving Mai from the burning apple is proof that he had a crush on her, whereas others feel he only did it because he didn't want her to get burned.

Another point...Zuko did NOT want to play with Azula and her friends. If he liked Mai wouldn't he have used it as an excuse to be close to her?

[Ana]

mahatista said:

Clear now?

It was clear in the first place. I was just pointing out how your point was wrong. The scenes you mentioned had absolutely no romance in them while the scene was Mai was centered around it. Now, in a story there a character arcs and things have meaning. Since it’s already been established Zuko is a nice guy and Mai’s romantic feelings were so important there... it’s obvious the point was, well, Maiko.

[mindbender18]

If that's the way you choose to approach life, that's your prerogative.

.....life? I always thought this was a cartoon show ;p

Another point...Zuko did NOT want to play with Azula and her friends. If he liked Mai wouldn't he have used it as an excuse to be close to her?

That's really doesn't make a difference, seeing that it's been proving that Zuko did like Mai