Post by Lulu on Dec 4, 2006 17:39:07 GMT -5
::jumps into thread, though is not sure where the topic is heading anymore::
I think the biggest influence on Zuko's life for Season 1 and most of Season 2 was his father, who we will hence forth be calling "Daddy Ozzie."
Daddy Ozzie: For Zuko, he represents the destiny chosen for him. By birth. By banishment. Zuko wants to become the Fire Lord some day, just like his father. But the reasons for this is because he always thought this was his only path, that he was bound by honor to capture the avatar.
Whether he does become Fire Lord in the future of the series or not is irrelevant. Let's focus on his motivations for now. He is motivated by the commands of his father. His image of himself is the "Prince Zuko" that chases the Avatar, that needs to return with the Avatar if he ever wants to succeed the throne. He has motivation to restore his honor (we know this because it's the only thing he ever talks about...), and then what?
Like Iroh said, Zuko doesn't think things through. He has no idea why he is destined to chase the Avatar. He has no idea why he is destined for the throne. He only knows that he is. For Zuko, his father represents that imposing, unchangeable destiny.
Now let's move on to the next big influence on Zuko:
Azula: As an extention of Daddy Ozzie, she represents the force of destiny, driving Zuko to becomeAnikin his Father some day. She may not actually tell him to be like Daddy Ozzie, but, symbolically, she is the dark side of the spectrum. In Zuko's spiritual crisis (his dream), she was the blue dragon that tempted him to stay in his vision of being the Fire Lord. In the vision, he was sitting in Daddy Ozzie's chair, surrounded by soldiers. Should be the ideal world for him, right? BUT, Azula is telling him to sleep. She wants him to surrender to the dream, to surrender to his destiny. Don't fight it. Just stay here and sleep. Sleep and be burned alive by the flames that are about to consume your throne.
Of course, she's not the only dragon shouting in his ear. There's our favourite tea peddler:
Iroh: If Azula is the darkness, then Iroh is the light. He represents the only opposition to destiny: freedom. This is the freedom to make your own decisions. Freedom to choose your future. Freedom to shave your head bald and join the navy. All that jazz. Iroh wants two things from Zuko. First, he wants Zuko to let go of his obsession with destiny. He sees that Zuko doesn't know what he wants, and only focuses on what he needs. He needs honor. He needs the avatar. He needs to regrow his ponytail. (Well, he does!) Iroh tells him that, "It's time to start asking yourself the big questions! Who are you? And what do YOU want?" As corny as that is, it's what he needs to hear. In the dream, Iroh is the red dragon. He tells Zuko to let go of his destiny "before it's too late." As in, before he looses his identity to it.
Zuko does this, in my opinion. After his "metamorphosis," he realizes that he can choose his own destiny. (I believe he says this to Katara in teh Infamous Cave Scene)
Back to Iroh. The second thing Iroh wants is, that when Zuko does choose his destiny, he chooses good. (He says this in the cave, too: "It's time for you to choose. It's time for you to choose good.")
However, we can't rule out Azula. Azula wants Zuko to choose "evil." And Zuko chooses Azula over Iroh. Why? Iroh offers a peaceful life. Azula offers honor and the love of his father, the two things Zuko has been striving for ever since his banishment. This time, Zuko does have a choice, and he chooses the exact same thing he wanted before.
So, in a way, Zuko did change. Whether it's for better or for worse is up to you. XD Before, Zuko was just an angry idiot in a fashionable ponytail. He didn't have any other reason for his actions than "it's my destiny". [insert angst fest here]
NOW, though, Zuko is fully aware of his reasons. It's become "I want my honor," instead of, "I need my honor." "I want Daddy Ozzie's love", etc. He knows what he is heading toward, and what he's leaving behind. Now he's just as stupid, but in a different way. He knows the consequences of his actions now. I guess that's what makes it worse. XP
I don't think this will be the end of the road for his development, though. Why? Because he doubts his decision. In the end he says, "I betrayed Uncle," and looks very uneasy, indeed. (Bye bye, Happy Zuko. You will be remembered in our hearts and in Saturday afternoon reruns.) This is an indication that Zuko is STILL conflicted. That boy just can't make up his mind.
Since he can't choose between the two extremes (good and evil; Iroh and Azula), I'm hoping he can eventually settle for a shade of gray. He still has a ways to go, and more epiphanies to make. For instance, WHY does he want to be Fire Lord? To succeed his father? To gain more honor? To help his people? To help the Avatar? [/not likely, but it's a kid's show--who knows?] I'm hoping he will realize his desire to help his people (and not just himself) in the next season and develop qualities of a good ruler. He has the compassion for it, and the determination. Now we just need to get him to think long-term...
Yes, he has a ways to go, but there's still one BIG influence on his life that hasn't been accounted for much: Mama Ursa! He'll be looking for her in Season 3, and whether she's alive or not, she's bound to have some influence on his decisions. Maybe she's the shove in that gray direction he needs. Not quite Iroh. Not quite Ozzie.
(I also found it interesting that Azula's dragon was blue while Iroh's was red. You'd think, Azula = FN = red, right? But, the blue refers to the part of Zuko that's obsessed with destiny and the Avatar. Blue Spirit => blue dragon!Azula. However, the red also has to do with the FN and Zuko's identity as a firebender. Red is a more passionate color, and while blue fire is the "perfect flame," red fire is flawed. This is the kind of prince Zuko has always been: passionate and flawed. Since Zuko left behind his "identity" as the Blue Spirit, I thought he'd go straight to the good side, represented by the red dragon. But since he didn't...)
EDIT:
Gah, I realized I posted and ignored everyone else's posts. ::wrote too much and now post is too long::
Whether Zuko knows this or not is still in question (the red dragon telling him to 'get out of here' seems to imply that he thinks Iroh wants him to give it up). And I think, if Zuko isn't trying to play Azula, such a misunderstanding would be part of the reason for his betrayal. He's looked inside of him and decided what he wants- the throne of the Fire Nation- and he's decided to go after it, just like Iroh told him to (rather ironic, actually). Iroh does want him to make his own decision about what he wants, and he knows better than Zuko how he'd get it. He just never told Zuko that, so Zuko might not know that there's another way to the throne besides through Azula.
I agree. I don't know if the "get out of here" was a misunderstanding of Zuko's, though. The whole dream sequence was supposed to be a spiritual thing (though I forget why...so I could be wrong ::sweatdrop:: ), so I thought that it was less Zuko's subconscious but more his...spirit? (Hey, this show is freaky like that...) But your explanation makes sense, too.
But what did Iroh intend for Zuko? His Happy Phase only lasted for one day, so they didn't really get a chance to make much progress. Did Iroh really intend to help him succeed the throne once he chose "good"? He does keep calling him "prince," but how would he realistically regain the throne while he's still a traitor?
I think the biggest influence on Zuko's life for Season 1 and most of Season 2 was his father, who we will hence forth be calling "Daddy Ozzie."
Daddy Ozzie: For Zuko, he represents the destiny chosen for him. By birth. By banishment. Zuko wants to become the Fire Lord some day, just like his father. But the reasons for this is because he always thought this was his only path, that he was bound by honor to capture the avatar.
Whether he does become Fire Lord in the future of the series or not is irrelevant. Let's focus on his motivations for now. He is motivated by the commands of his father. His image of himself is the "Prince Zuko" that chases the Avatar, that needs to return with the Avatar if he ever wants to succeed the throne. He has motivation to restore his honor (we know this because it's the only thing he ever talks about...), and then what?
Like Iroh said, Zuko doesn't think things through. He has no idea why he is destined to chase the Avatar. He has no idea why he is destined for the throne. He only knows that he is. For Zuko, his father represents that imposing, unchangeable destiny.
Now let's move on to the next big influence on Zuko:
Azula: As an extention of Daddy Ozzie, she represents the force of destiny, driving Zuko to become
Of course, she's not the only dragon shouting in his ear. There's our favourite tea peddler:
Iroh: If Azula is the darkness, then Iroh is the light. He represents the only opposition to destiny: freedom. This is the freedom to make your own decisions. Freedom to choose your future. Freedom to shave your head bald and join the navy. All that jazz. Iroh wants two things from Zuko. First, he wants Zuko to let go of his obsession with destiny. He sees that Zuko doesn't know what he wants, and only focuses on what he needs. He needs honor. He needs the avatar. He needs to regrow his ponytail. (Well, he does!) Iroh tells him that, "It's time to start asking yourself the big questions! Who are you? And what do YOU want?" As corny as that is, it's what he needs to hear. In the dream, Iroh is the red dragon. He tells Zuko to let go of his destiny "before it's too late." As in, before he looses his identity to it.
Zuko does this, in my opinion. After his "metamorphosis," he realizes that he can choose his own destiny. (I believe he says this to Katara in teh Infamous Cave Scene)
Back to Iroh. The second thing Iroh wants is, that when Zuko does choose his destiny, he chooses good. (He says this in the cave, too: "It's time for you to choose. It's time for you to choose good.")
However, we can't rule out Azula. Azula wants Zuko to choose "evil." And Zuko chooses Azula over Iroh. Why? Iroh offers a peaceful life. Azula offers honor and the love of his father, the two things Zuko has been striving for ever since his banishment. This time, Zuko does have a choice, and he chooses the exact same thing he wanted before.
So, in a way, Zuko did change. Whether it's for better or for worse is up to you. XD Before, Zuko was just an angry idiot in a fashionable ponytail. He didn't have any other reason for his actions than "it's my destiny". [insert angst fest here]
NOW, though, Zuko is fully aware of his reasons. It's become "I want my honor," instead of, "I need my honor." "I want Daddy Ozzie's love", etc. He knows what he is heading toward, and what he's leaving behind. Now he's just as stupid, but in a different way. He knows the consequences of his actions now. I guess that's what makes it worse. XP
I don't think this will be the end of the road for his development, though. Why? Because he doubts his decision. In the end he says, "I betrayed Uncle," and looks very uneasy, indeed. (Bye bye, Happy Zuko. You will be remembered in our hearts and in Saturday afternoon reruns.) This is an indication that Zuko is STILL conflicted. That boy just can't make up his mind.
Since he can't choose between the two extremes (good and evil; Iroh and Azula), I'm hoping he can eventually settle for a shade of gray. He still has a ways to go, and more epiphanies to make. For instance, WHY does he want to be Fire Lord? To succeed his father? To gain more honor? To help his people? To help the Avatar? [/not likely, but it's a kid's show--who knows?] I'm hoping he will realize his desire to help his people (and not just himself) in the next season and develop qualities of a good ruler. He has the compassion for it, and the determination. Now we just need to get him to think long-term...
Yes, he has a ways to go, but there's still one BIG influence on his life that hasn't been accounted for much: Mama Ursa! He'll be looking for her in Season 3, and whether she's alive or not, she's bound to have some influence on his decisions. Maybe she's the shove in that gray direction he needs. Not quite Iroh. Not quite Ozzie.
(I also found it interesting that Azula's dragon was blue while Iroh's was red. You'd think, Azula = FN = red, right? But, the blue refers to the part of Zuko that's obsessed with destiny and the Avatar. Blue Spirit => blue dragon!Azula. However, the red also has to do with the FN and Zuko's identity as a firebender. Red is a more passionate color, and while blue fire is the "perfect flame," red fire is flawed. This is the kind of prince Zuko has always been: passionate and flawed. Since Zuko left behind his "identity" as the Blue Spirit, I thought he'd go straight to the good side, represented by the red dragon. But since he didn't...)
EDIT:
Gah, I realized I posted and ignored everyone else's posts. ::wrote too much and now post is too long::
ikkin said:
Are you saying that Iroh thinks that Zuko should just be happy as a tea server, and that he should give up on his hopes of becoming Fire Lord? I don't think that's the case at all. Iroh continues to call Zuko 'Prince Zuko,' despite the fact that he's banished and they're on the run; he says that the metamorphosis will make Zuko into the 'beautiful prince' that he was meant to be. Iroh knows that Zuko wants his birthright, and he's never said that Zuko should give it up.Whether Zuko knows this or not is still in question (the red dragon telling him to 'get out of here' seems to imply that he thinks Iroh wants him to give it up). And I think, if Zuko isn't trying to play Azula, such a misunderstanding would be part of the reason for his betrayal. He's looked inside of him and decided what he wants- the throne of the Fire Nation- and he's decided to go after it, just like Iroh told him to (rather ironic, actually). Iroh does want him to make his own decision about what he wants, and he knows better than Zuko how he'd get it. He just never told Zuko that, so Zuko might not know that there's another way to the throne besides through Azula.
I agree. I don't know if the "get out of here" was a misunderstanding of Zuko's, though. The whole dream sequence was supposed to be a spiritual thing (though I forget why...so I could be wrong ::sweatdrop:: ), so I thought that it was less Zuko's subconscious but more his...spirit? (Hey, this show is freaky like that...) But your explanation makes sense, too.
But what did Iroh intend for Zuko? His Happy Phase only lasted for one day, so they didn't really get a chance to make much progress. Did Iroh really intend to help him succeed the throne once he chose "good"? He does keep calling him "prince," but how would he realistically regain the throne while he's still a traitor?