|
Post by mindbender18 on Jun 9, 2008 22:43:45 GMT -5
xD You sure fooled me.. Oh? So what was with all of that talk about all of the "14 year old girls who wouldn't eva date a twelve year old!1!1!!!!1" Or do they not fall under the category of "other people" ROFL! Yeah right....I hope you're also aware of the fact that just because you're an 16/17 year old emo who complains a lot doesn't mean you're mature. Hmm....and who throws little hissy fits when things don't go his way, b*tched and moaned 24/7 about his life but yet did nothing to make it better, treated the only man who loves him like dirt, didn't have sense enough to realize that his daddy didn't love him, and was just being an all around jack***? That be Zuko. *sniffs* Oh yeah, that just reeks of maturity! Again, being a 16/17 year old emo priss, doesn't make a person mature and Zuko is not. Ugh.....I didn't want to talk bad about Zuko (I really didn't) but I guess people downing Aang makes me get like that.
|
|
|
Post by deana on Jun 9, 2008 22:49:49 GMT -5
Sokka is my woobie.
Yes we all have different feelings and such. That is why older Kataang has my respect. Younger Kataang . . . NEVER.
As for Aang being mature, yeah he gained and lost that all in the space of one episode. I lost all respect for him this season.
Aang: Oh wee, lets go run around and explore. Who cares that I just lost your parents in my half-a$$ed attempt to stop the Fire Lord? Why I thought I could stop the father when the daughter out-smarted me doesn't matter? Lets play and don't worry. Wove will defeat the firelord anyway. Wove and the care bear stare.
|
|
Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
|
Post by Ana on Jun 9, 2008 23:11:38 GMT -5
Kataang was written by two people who were never 14-year-old girls, so they would not realize how unrealistic it is. Once Haru and Zuko joined the group, any chance Aang had would have been gone, if they were portraying a realistic teenage girl's emotions and actions. Wow. Okay, first, you could be less arrogant when starting your opinion. Second, I am a teenage girl and disagree with your opinion very much. Teen girls can fall for anyone and I’ve seen them fall for boys two years younger. Besides, Katara is not trapped in the Modern Era with grades and such that make age gaps even bigger. As Amira stated, Katara hasn’t even mentioned Aang’s age ever. If you haven’t noticed she still looks him up to Aang and digs him on occasion. Aang: Oh wee, lets go run around and explore. Who cares that I just lost your parents in my half-a$$ed attempt to stop the Fire Lord? Why I thought I could stop the father when the daughter out-smarted me doesn't matter? Lets play and don't worry. Wove will defeat the firelord anyway. Wove and the care bear stare. I really don’t think you get Aang’s character. Aang was not just embracing wove (dude, the "love > all" is not said by the characters but by the fandom) and forgetting his worries. Aang was actually showing his worry. His major character flaw is running from his problems. Even so, he accepted his new fire bending teacher better than, say, the apparently very mature woman Katara.
|
|
pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
|
Post by pg15 on Jun 9, 2008 23:29:50 GMT -5
Remember how Zuko effed everything up at the end of Season 2? I'd say Aang's wish to avoid the issue in WAT is similar to that; both of them backpeddled because they weren't able to face the issues at the time. It's a part of who they are; it's pretty realistic too, and again, it's all paralleling. Zuko effed up in COD. Afterwards, Zuko had several weeks/months to deal with his decision and eventually realized that he had to renege on his decision and stood up to Ozai. But, it was difficult; he fell even further initially when he hired Combustion Man. Meanwhile, Aang put all his efforts into the Invasion, and when he effed that up, he had to deal with his failures, which is difficult as well. Similar to Zuko, he started by going down the wrong path, by avoiding the issue. We are now watching him slowly turn around as he work hard (even if he doesn't want to at times) to master Firebending. In time, Aang will figure out what he must do and do them, just like Zuko...but not yet, because the series ain't over, and Aang's story have to stretch across the entire series by convention...or something. People can debate maturity all they want; evidence can be collected by both sides as to who's more mature but I think you'll find that, if you take the entire series so far, then I'd say they're about the same. However, the fact is, Katara seems enamored with Aang at the moment; we can see her enjoying Aang's antics and company, and obviously vice versa. Nothing can change that. I mean, if your only arguement for why Katara wouldn't like Aang is because of the age thing, then that's pretty thin, not to mention culturally biased. Looking at the series, it's hard to see why Katara wouldn't enjoy Aang's personality; he's got a good one. He encourages her; he has wisdom to share; he's funny, lighthearted; I guess he's just lovable overall. And apparently there are many girls who think he's not hard on the eyes either. Kataang was written by two people who were never 14-year-old girls, so they would not realize how unrealistic it is. Once Haru and Zuko joined the group, any chance Aang had would have been gone, if they were portraying a realistic teenage girl's emotions and actions. Yeah, in our world. Luckily, the Avatar world isn't our world. The people there behave just a tad differently from our cultural norms, thank gawd. Katara is just the way she is, written like a 14 year old girl with almost zero experience with males of similar age and who has been living on the frozen ice of the South Pole for all of her life while experiencing things the 14 year olds of our world would never have dreamed of, and right now she likes Aang, very much. Believe me, if I wanted to see "realistic teenage girls" like the ones you're describing, then I'd go watch all those craptastic Nick Teen Live shows. Oh wait, I hate them with the passion of a thousand flaming sexy Maiko knives. Thank the spirits Avatar doesn't portray its teens as "realistic".
|
|
|
Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 9, 2008 23:37:43 GMT -5
Oh? So what was with all of that talk about all of the "14 year old girls who wouldn't eva date a twelve year old!1!1!!!!1" Or do they not fall under the category of "other people" First off, I don't appreciate the dumbing down of my posts. I make an effort to use correct grammar, punctuation, and spelling. I wouldn't be offended if I did post like that, but I don't use multiple exclamation points, nor do I use ones in place for them. This is exactly what I said before: none of my posts are going to be taken seriously because I'm a 14-year old Zutarian. I may be young, but I'm not stupid and I don't appreciate being treated as such. Thank you. Now anyway. Yes, in that instance, we were talking about other people. But we had moved on to debating who was more mature, Aang or Zuko. I wanted to remove the "other people" part when we were just discussing that. If we're talking about the maturity of 12 and 16/17-year olds in general, like we were with 14-year olds, then we can talk about other people...?
|
|
Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
|
Post by Zenjamin on Jun 9, 2008 23:38:14 GMT -5
I really don’t think you get Aang’s character. Aang was not just embracing wove (dude, the "love > all" is not said by the characters but by the fandom) and forgetting his worries. Aang was actually showing his worry. His major character flaw is running from his problems. Even so, he accepted his new fire bending teacher better than, say, the apparently very mature woman Katara. O, But they could just say that was because katara couldnt deal with all the emotional turmoil she had for Zuko... she was just acting that way because she gave Zuko her heart, and he betrayed her in a deeply personal way that had nothing to do with aang' death (never mind that she specifically mentioned aang) Anyways. Aang is more immature then Zuko now? ... how fickle the fandom is. watch the show... both aang and Zuko have strayed from their paths... they have been paralled in this way intentionally. Only difference is, Aang always manages to do the right thing when it really counts... but whenever Zuko screwed up, he REALLY screwed up, and for completely selfish reasons, and he even had Iroh holding up a big fracken sign that said "PATH OF GOOD! MAKE RIGHT TURN NOW!" Zuko's immatre moments were selfish moments, charcter flaws(that he has finally fixed. Aangs were verry tempoary age things... and it again annoys me how the fandom ignores that aang grows older. Anyways, I might go back and look at arguments quote by quote... but im busy atm... (but my argument that the Romeo/Julette formula would take away too much spotlight, add little to nothing to the development of other characters, and would not contribute to the actual plot the way kataang does stands.) PS: our individual preferences for weather we would like a guy like aang or zuko means absolutely nothing.... in fact, all it does, is serve to argue that Zutara was started for Zuko, not how a relationship between the two would benefit the canon avaverse. PPS: Some people here are being overly rude... on both sides. lets refrain from personal attacks.
|
|
|
Post by mindbender18 on Jun 10, 2008 0:18:41 GMT -5
Jeeze, you just had to point out that one little thing xD Seriously, it wasn't my intention at all to try to make you look stupid or whatever, sorry if you think that.
...Okay i'm confused now, I thought you just wanted to talk about the maturity levels of Aang and Zuko and not other people?
Anyway...yes Aang and Zuko both have their immature moments, but yet it's always Aang who gets kicked around because of them, while Zuko's are forgotten (even though his are usually twice as bad as Aang's)
|
|
|
Post by wiiboy on Jun 10, 2008 1:51:24 GMT -5
Zutara, from the minds of fandom that clutter the likes of /co/ on 4chan ever since...
|
|
|
Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 10, 2008 2:08:44 GMT -5
Yes, with the over the top sarcasm, assumptions, and not even understanding THE WHOLE POST except for the ones that you didn’t like said about Aang. I WONDER how she could’ve ever thought that.
She does want to talk about only Aang and Zuko. At the beginning you were talking about the two of them and including “other people”. But, as it went on the two of you were only talking solely about Aang and Zuko. Hence, why bring up “other people” if you had already finished talking about them?
Now to shed some light on the misdeeds. Aang is not the only one kicked around. If you recall Season 3’s start even ZUTARIANS were ticked at his indecisiveness. As much as we love our ship Iroh being cast aside like that was total BS for Zuko to do.
As season 3 went on however there was a change. Zuko finally started to see that what he was doing was wrong and Aang finally got his act together and faced the fact that the invasion was coming. Herein lies the difference though, Zuko did not need anyone at the end of the day to drill it in his head that he had to face Ozai. He came to that descision after his own thinking and Iroh’s revelation. What was Aang doing? He was panicking and having daydreams. At the end of the day he too finally saw the light and was ready for the invasion but even then he always needed someone to tell him that running away was wrong.
Now, there is nothing wrong with having the people who love you help you but AANG IS JUST TOO DEPENDANT! Especially when it comes to Katara. Yes, he agreed for Zuko to be his teacher but that was because KATARA AGREED. He went into the Avatar State in Ba Sing Se because KATARA WAS IN DANGER. Very noble until you consider the fact that he should’ve been thinking about the EARTH KINGDOM.
He got through his invasion mania because KATARA REASSURED HIM. Lastly, when Appa was stolen he was right to be mad though taking it out on Toph was kinda harsh. In his rage he got into the Avatar State and was about to give those sand benders his two cents. But wow, KATARA COMES AND IT’S ALL BETTER.
My Point: Since this is shipping, I’m sorry but in my honest opinion Katara is going to get sick and tired of being Aang’s rock/stability.
|
|
|
Post by Amira on Jun 10, 2008 8:26:24 GMT -5
the problem with that is that katara depends on him too. Aang is her world and he is saving her world. He doesn't solicit that affection. She stepped in herself in the sandbender scene, he solicited all the opinions of his friends in regards to zuko, katara was the one who had to be miss drama queen about it.
|
|
|
Post by mindbender18 on Jun 10, 2008 8:30:40 GMT -5
Iknorite? Oh so that's why Zutarians were ticked off at Zuko...because of his indecisiveness and Iroh! So it didn't have anything to do with him not being with Katara and snogging Mai? .....Are you freaking serious? Zuko had to have it drilled in his head for two and half seasons straight! After all of this time, he finally realize that Iroh was right and he was an idiot. It doesn't take Aang nearly as long to realize his mistakes, therein lies the difference Yep and what was Zuko doing? B*tching and moaning about not being invited to a war meeting with his daddy. Yep and why did Katara agree? Because of Aang. Aang's a team player, there's no way he would let a person in the group who the others didn't agree on. That wouldn't make much sense. ......what? WHy would he be thinking about the Earth Kingdom when it was them who put Katara in danger in the first place just to get him into the AS? Edit: Wait...now I think I get what you're talking about and I still don't get it. He went into the AS not just because Katara was in danger, but also because he was in danger. With Azula, Zuko, and all of Dai Lee breathing down his neck, they was no way he could win without the AS and if he didn't win, he couldn't save the Earth Kingdom. ......I'm trying my darnest to figure out what's so bad about this? One of the big reasons why Zuko made it this far was because of Iroh's reassurance. AND WOW!1!! THAT IS JUST SO HORRIBLE1!1! D*MN YOU KATARA!1!! Seriously, if Katara didn't help Aang through that, the sandbenders wouldn't been the only people he would've most likely hurt..... (and it's not like Aang begs Katara to help him, she's helps him all on her own) I mean, I guess it's just like how Zuko during his long search for the Avatar, would've probably self-destructed if it wasn't for Iroh being there for him. But I forget though, since Zuko's the fandom's woobie, it's okay for him. (But guess what? I'm not apart of that fandom....he's not my woobie at all, so i'm going to talk about him as bad as a certain group of people talk about Aang) *facepalms* "I'm sorry but in my honest opinion", that's crazy. Aang keeps Katara stable just as much as she keeps him. They are each others rock/stability screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/682.jpgscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/742.jpgwww.avatarspiritmedia.net/images/nickmag2/nickmag2_reagan.jpg (Katara looks like she's about to commit suicide) And look how happy she is when Aang comes back to live and other instances: screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/749.jpgscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/301/022.jpgscreenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/301/351.jpgiroh.org/screencaps/ep41/ep41-570.pngThis tells me that she needs Aang just as much as he needs her (if not more) Oh..but since according to you, she's going to have such a problem with being someone's rock/stability, let's cancel out Zutara yet again! Because Zuko's the one with major mommy issues, not Aang.
|
|
|
Post by Kohana on Jun 10, 2008 9:00:25 GMT -5
I think everyone should calm done here and leave out the sarcastic snarks. It's still a debate thread and we don't need to snap at each other. I disagree. Like mindbender said, Aang is also Katara's rock/stability. She needs him just as much as he needs her. In fact, he's the embodiment of her hope. And hope is something that a person can use in such dire situations like the war. But not only that, I think she loves being his rock. Katara comes from a, forgive me for saying this, puny little village... the only village on the whole South Pole, where she's the only waterbender. She had always relied on the Avatar to return. But she's caused his return, she's helped him throughout his journey in so many ways, she's fought alongside him to stop the Fire Nation. I think that makes her feel more special than being an actual burden. As a Zutarian myself, I can honestly say that was the reason why I was disappointed in him. I thought it was a great plottwist, but still disappointed in his decision either way. And not because he got together with Mai. He didn't only ask for Katara's consent. He asked for Toph's and Sokka's too because like mindbender said, Aang's a team player. If Katara agreed and for example Toph didn't, then Aang wouldn't have let Zuko in the group. So it's not just because of Katara. This topic can be debated without hurling insults at either side. Your ship preference does not make you any less or greater of a person. So there's no need to talk bad about Zuko or about Aang.
|
|
|
Post by mindbender18 on Jun 10, 2008 9:58:13 GMT -5
Yeah, that's just a bad habit I have to get out of. Everytime I see Aang being downed (unfairly most of the time) my attention turns to Zuko. It's not a good thing at all, which is why I'm trying to stop
|
|
|
Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 10, 2008 12:08:49 GMT -5
To be honest: YES, because seeing how awesome the first and second seasons were I was assuming they'd make Mai more endearing. I was also assuming we'd get to see how the relationship works but no they put that part in a comic that seems to have a plothole as Zuko was never shown to even know Mai had feelings for him. They tried in TBR but even then it just wasn't workin' hence my dislike of Maiko now.
And yes I am quite serious. Zuko had Iroh and ONLY Iroh while Aang had the WHOLE GAANG who was with him almost every step of the way reminding him constantly because of that annoying character flaw of running away just when the going gets tough and coming back when it's already become chaotic. Zuko however LEFT IROH to sort it out on HIS OWN. But love is a very strong thing so Iroh couldn't be gone forever now could he?
Yes he was because he was surprised that it didn't happen. Imagine, you have done everything for the love of your father but even then he treats you like you don't exist. It served as a moment of escalation to the final result: Leaving the FN and joining the Gaang. I'd say the same about Aang but at this point it just showed us once again how Aang cannot get over being a kid and doesn't want to be the Avatar. It was understandable in the 2nd season but after freakin' DYING he still can't get over that?
Exactly, Aang is a team player. Katara agreed because the others agreed with him. Katara isn't stupid she may be a master waterbender but she can't take the whole Gaang on. Granted, with Aang loving her so much she could easily get him to do it her way but then that would have the other members of the Gaang on her tail.
Im sorry but this may be a matter of interpretation. Like that whole thing about Mai having no reaction or her reacting quite ticked during Omashu. From what I saw Aang wasn't thinking of himself at all he was thinking of Katara. He wanted to save her and the AS was the only way to do it. To each his own on this point.
Ok, what I meant by that was Aang from what I've seen is the only one being reassured and supported in the relationship. Has he ever done that for Katara? HIM ALONE? Not going along with her and giving her more reason to do what she set to do like in "The Painted Lady".
|
|
Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
|
Post by Zenjamin on Jun 10, 2008 12:37:40 GMT -5
Hey victim... I dont have time to go through every point you made, and I think if I did, it would be lost... but you are really being silly... quite silly.
You actually want to argue that aang does not show unconditional love towards katara the way she does? You really dont see how aang could make katara happy?
you want to argue that Iroh did not give zuko as much support as the gaang did aang?
silly... just silly...
trying to belittle the 12 year old messiah figure in comparison with zuko is just the wrong argument to try.
|
|