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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 10, 2008 13:15:52 GMT -5
Alright maybe I am if that's how you want to go about it. Though I really don't see Aang's part of the unconditional love. I can see how Aang can make Katara happy but I do not see Aang's unconditional love which is one of the reasons I was never sold on Kataang.
Think of it as learning about other ships. From what I see Aang did have more support, from the beginning Iroh was a passive supporter of Zuko for me. Until of course the events beneath Lake Laogai, that was what I've been waiting for in Iroh's regards to Zuko.
Remember that theory you said about Iroh breaking out and starting an army? Agressive, getting things done Iroh? That is what I think Zuko needed at the beginning of season 2. So forgive me if I see Iroh as passive for the most part when it comes to him.
How am I compressing the 12 year old messiah figure? I'm just stating things as I see them and the Aang of seasons 1 & 2, the Aang who grew and learned is not who I am seeing in season 3. How is it wrong to compare them? They do parallel afterall and their both the major/central heroes of the story.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jun 10, 2008 13:26:50 GMT -5
I think everyone should calm done here and leave out the sarcastic snarks. It's still a debate thread and we don't need to snap at each other. As the RB mod, I agree. Debating with insults is what turns them into shipping wars. So refrain from all the snark and such please. Has he ever done that for Katara? HIM ALONE? A) Katara does become comforted by comforting Aang, you know. Aang has comforted Katara in 101 where he came out of the iceburg and gave her meaningless life HOPE. B) Here and here. Wait, you don’t think Katara needs Aang? That doesn’t make much sense to me because, like mindbender showed, when he’s gone she’s an absolute mess. Look at what she said in "The Awakening": It's not brave. It's selfish and stupid. We could be helping him. And I know the world needs him, but doesn't he know how much that we need him too?No, and I think that serves the point mindbender’s point. I think he was trying to say that since Zuko is so needy that Katara would just end up being his rock too. Just look at how much of Maiko was Mai trying to go "It’s okay, BB".
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 10, 2008 13:45:45 GMT -5
^Ah, there we go. I seem to have missed that part of the first screenshot? When was that? Jet? The second however doesn't count because Sokka is there.
Wait, what are you talking about? Of course the two people in a relationship need eachother? What gave you that idea? *reads again* Oh! No, you misunderstood I was talking about the same thing those two screenshots you provided answered it.
It's just, to me Katara is doing everything i.e support. She's not as strong as she likes to believe. Somebody has to be supportive of her as well. Going along with whatever she says though is not supportive.
I see what you mean about the needy and rock but relationships arn't all about one person. Hence, I wonder where it is that Aang has been on occasion, HER ROCK. He almost did it in "The Painted Lady" but she still ended up doing that stupid stunt so I don't count that.
We see characters differently so even though you think that Zuko will need her to be his rock all the time I don't see that. But that there is a whole other discussion I don't want to get into at this late hour.
Maiko we disagree on though...that was not how I percieved that relationship. If I squint though I can see it.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 10, 2008 13:53:49 GMT -5
That second screenshot, Sokka was comforting her also. VOC was asking for times when Aang comforted Katara alone. Really? Mai was telling Zuko it was okay? I looked at every one of Mai's lines in the transcripts from S3, and I never got the impression she was saying that. It seemed as if she was just asking for fruit tarts and rides on the palanquin, stuff like that.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jun 10, 2008 14:22:36 GMT -5
^Ah, there we go. I seem to have missed that part of the first screenshot? When was that? Jet? The second however doesn't count because Sokka is there. It was in "Lake Laogai" when Katara was upset over Jet’s death. Aang put his hand on her shoulder and then there was a Gaang hug. Eh, I think it counts for Aang alone. Sokka’s only vaguely touching Katara and is looking at the moon rather than her. Ahh, I gotcha now. Well, I'm glad I still made some sense. I don’t know about that. If someone told me "Wow, that’s a great idea!" I’d feel supported. I think that shows in "The Pained Lady" because Katara seems happier with Aang rather than, say, Sokka. The first episodes? He came into her life and gave it purpose/proved everything she was hoping for. The Awakening? When he woke up she was revived of her endless worry and semi self hatred. I could probably go on... Really? Mai was telling Zuko it was okay? I looked at every one of Mai's lines in the transcripts from S3, and I never got the impression she was saying that. Err, I'll post some transcripts that show nothing but Mai caring for Zuko. Here: Mai: (smiles and wraps her arms around Zuko) Stop worrying. Mai: I know one thing I care about... (Cut to shot of Mai smiling at Zuko) I care about you. Mai: Well good. You shouldn't. Why would you even want to go (Cut to shot of Zuko and Mai standing in the window, the Fire Nation Palace before them. Mai puts her arm around Zuko) Just think about how things went to the last war meeting you went to. Mai: Zuko, that's wonderful. (grabs on to him) You must be happy!
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Airblazer
Warrior Sokka
^My favorite FF6 Character^
Posts: 798
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Post by Airblazer on Jun 10, 2008 14:27:56 GMT -5
Wow, I entered here and I see flames flying everywhere *Dodge's flames* Hmm...so this is what the Kataang vs. Zutara thread is like. Anyways, I'm glad you brought that up mindbender, about the whole thing about rock/stability between Aang and Katara:
If you read "The Tale of Katara" on page 89, it shows Katara needing Aang. When Ty Lee pummeled Katara and Katara lost her bending, Katara said she felt helpless and then she said (In exact quote from the book), "Oh, Aang, I wish you were here...."
Wow, wouldn't that be nice for a sig? *dashes over to Kataang Castle"
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Jun 10, 2008 15:18:34 GMT -5
And yes I am quite serious. Zuko had Iroh and ONLY Iroh while Aang had the WHOLE GAANG who was with him almost every step of the way reminding him constantly because of that annoying character flaw of running away just when the going gets tough and coming back when it's already become chaotic. Zuko however LEFT IROH to sort it out on HIS OWN. But love is a very strong thing so Iroh couldn't be gone forever now could he? Everyone knows that Iroh's wisdom is worth 10 Gaangs. Well, I'd say that DYING because he was the Avatar would probably make him not want to be that... All hypothetical, of course. Maybe I missed something, but...don't friends, family, and/or pets support you in some way? Isn't that the whole point? Isn't that how Aang sees Katara as well, as a loved one? Katara may encourage Aang, but that's who she is; she wants to help; it's part of her personality. From what I see, Aang's own personality is enough to support Katara without him actually, physically, doing anything, because he just cheers her up by acting the way he normally is. That, and the fact that...well, how many times have we seen Katara needing support? And has Aang helped her in all those times? You can't say that Aang hasn't supported Katara by himself without the rest of the Gaang when there is no instance of Katara needing support when only Aang was around. Apparently not, because as it's perfectly clear in the show, he has no mommy issues. And what is this about unconditional love? Again, I think I'm missing something, but if Aang didn't love Katara unconditionally, then there would be certain conditions where Aang didn't love Katara. Have we seen this happen? I don't think so.
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Aanglover
Avatar Yangchen
The Aang Guru
This isn't the end, but rather, a new beginning.
Posts: 1,537
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Post by Aanglover on Jun 10, 2008 17:03:20 GMT -5
unconditional love.... hmm.... when hasn't aang showed that towards katara??? even if he was trying to push her away... he was still thinking of her. and tried to comfort her in any instance she was full of sadness. in almost every episode he has shown it in some way...so why in the heck would anyone think that he has no "unconditional love" for her? that makes no sense to me..... but hey.. that's other peoples views....
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jun 11, 2008 1:44:30 GMT -5
^Ok, maybe unconditional was the wrong word. *searches through thesaurus* I still don't have the right word. Alright....try many words.
What I don't understand is why Aang is the only one recieving most of the support. Like I said a couple posts ago, Katara is not as strong as she thinks she is. You cannot tell me that the girl can do everything alone. If she did then there would've been no big issue with her father leaving.
She wouldn't be saying these words: It's not brave. It's selfish and stupid. We could be helping him. And I know the world needs him, but doesn't he know how much that we need him too?
I'd believe that if season 3 wasn't so contradictory. You mean Katara has no qualms at all. Not even minute annoyance that Aang keeps running away from his destiny this season? Loved ones may support you but it's a give and take thing. You can't have one person wallowing in sorrow and always thinking about him/herself when the time comes that the person supporting you needs support.
That's selfish and stupid. Why do you think people have such trying patience when it comes to angsting teenagers or women who are constantly ticked off?
Not many but we have seen her wanting help now and then. Why do you think she was annoyed when Sokka was rushing her with fixing his pants? Dirty socks? Why she had that whole rant when Toph first joined?
As for her needing support. I recall that time when Wan Shi Tong's hidden library sank and Appa was lost. They had to get to Ba Sing Se and Katara was THE ONLY ONE KEEPING THEM TOGETHER.
The fight with Azula and Zuko plus the Dai Lee under the city? Aang himself wasn't much help there with that rock based strategy. You can argue that he was in the heat of the moment and his emotions were in the way but so were Zuko's. Yet, he fought better. Azula herself in all her battles fights her best and keeps her cool for the most part.
Of course, Aang doesn't have a death wish and most people don't but if it is your duty to save the world you should already know that is a very real possibility. Now, I don't know if it's because I was a raised Navy brat but your duty always comes before yourself.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Jun 11, 2008 2:48:46 GMT -5
I'd believe that if season 3 wasn't so contradictory. You mean Katara has no qualms at all. Not even minute annoyance that Aang keeps running away from his destiny this season? Loved ones may support you but it's a give and take thing. You can't have one person wallowing in sorrow and always thinking about him/herself when the time comes that the person supporting you needs support. KEEPS running away? He's done it ONCE, in WAT; and that didn't last. In fact, I don't think Katara had anything to do with making Aang see reason. It was Zuko who did that. The Awakening was him EMBRACING his destiny as Avatar (a little bit too much) and heading off into Fire Nation waters to do his Avatar thing so as to spare the others (including Katara) the dangers of facing Ozai. As for Katara having qualms...hey, it's not contradictory if the show does things you disagree with. If Katara is annoyed with Aang's attitude, then it'll be in the show or at least hinted at. You tell me if she's annoyed. Anyway, the important thing to remember IMHO, is that, as long as Aang EXISTS, and as long as he's the way he is, Katara will have some sort of support from him. All her hopes are within him, after all. Just look at how upset Katara was during The Serpent's Pass and The Awakening. She needed Aang to be Aang. And when he turned around and became his old self? Well, both resulted in happy, tears-filled hugs. And don't say that that's a copout because it means Aang doesn't have to do anything. I think remaining that chipper after all the crap thrown at him is already pretty impressive. Are we talking about Zuko or Aang here? She was annoyed because Sokka was complaining in the former 2 cases and Toph was being selfish in the latter case. I don't see your point here. What do you want Aang to do? Agree with her all the time? I think some fans complain about that too. Katara didn't seem to need help during those cases (she held her own just fine; and at least with the Toph case she really wasn't entirely in the right), just like Aang doesn't need help ALL THE TIME. Indeed, and that was part of her character. Such is the case with a person of Katara's personality. But hey, let's not kid ourselves. Yes, that was not one of Aang's best moments; that was the point of that episode; to show how far Aang can go, emotionally. Do you want him to be perfect all the time? When Aang went down for a little while, Katara was beaten silly immediately by the fire siblings. I think that means Aang was at least a little bit of help while he was fighting, with rocks or otherwise.
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Post by Recca on Jun 28, 2008 1:37:06 GMT -5
kataang because it look like it's actually going to happen.
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Post by kataraglr1372 on Jul 3, 2008 10:01:41 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that it will never happen unless the writers understand that it would be perfect but I will always be a zutarian
also sorry to sound stupid but what is canon?
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Post by nymphadora on Jul 3, 2008 10:07:04 GMT -5
Canon is something that has happened in the show and is real for the Avatarverse. And I think if it's confirmed by the producers it might be canon..... Canon is what has really happened and fanon is stuff like fanfiction, fanart, and just theories. I probably explained that horribly. Sorry. XD lol But welcome to DH! *welcome karma* You should stop by the Zutara Crystal Catacombs! It's in the Relationship Board and there's a link at the top of my signature. We always love to have more Zutarians. *hugs*
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Jul 3, 2008 10:09:39 GMT -5
^^Welcome to the forum!^_^ Anyway:
Canon-in the context of a fictional universe, comprises those novels, stories, films, etc., that are considered to be genuine.
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Post by nymphadora on Jul 3, 2008 10:11:49 GMT -5
Voc Good idea with looking up a definition of canon. xD That probably makes a lot more sense than mine.
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