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Post by deana on Jun 8, 2008 21:10:06 GMT -5
Like maha said, there's a difference between showbiz and good showbiz. Bryke's been dragging this along for WAY too long and I think it's hurting them. There's no suspense. It's getting to "Please, for the love of God, end it." And that's the problem. Why do they have to wait until the series finale? They could have spent all this time developing Kataang as a relationship and showing me things to like about it, but yet, we're still going "Does she, or doesn't she?" It's not considered, Zen. It is clichéd, and since we've been doing the same thing with Kataang the whole time (something that could be epic in their relationship, then swept under the rug, Katara giving mixed signals) I'm not sure how it could have branched off, or when it had time to branch off. It is no point for them to wait until the season finale. The way that Katara seemed to forget that kiss after DOBS is just wrong. There is no dramatic suspense to make up for it. Dramatic supsense is us watching Katara fret over her feelings for Aang for a change. There is no reason for them not to be together as of DOBS. It is something seriously wrong when one decides to make their main romance as boring and as weird as cow watching, thinking it is suspenseful for the girl to be completely indifferent after the guy kisses her. For them to want us to believe Katara is such a strong and smart character, they sure dumb her down for their romantic Kataang 'supsense.'
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 8, 2008 22:14:35 GMT -5
Zuko and Katara have had one positive interaction in the whole series. They’ve also been involved with various other people at various times. There is no way it would work in that amount of time (or the time left in the series but that’s another matter). Honestly, out of the bunches of people I know in real life who watch and love this show, only one was not grossed out by the mere idea of Zuko/Katara. Do you think they’d agree with you? Well, I've had totally different experiences with the bunches of people I know who watch the show. The majority of them (meaning... everyone but one person, who is a Kataang/Zutara multishipper) are disgusted by Kataang. This is probably due to the fact that I hang out with 14-year olds, who would not be caught dead dating a twelve-year oldSo, maybe a single person's social group is not the best way to gather that sort of information? And I'd like to point out that Sokka and Yue's relationship took two episodes. Sokka and Suki's took one. Maiko... the building up to it never really started in the show, as they were already a couple by the time S3 started. I think they have plenty of time to flesh out a Zutara relationship, if the writers so choose.
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Post by mahatista on Jun 8, 2008 23:00:02 GMT -5
And you're wrong about the 'no unique aspects'. Their histories and character specifics are incredibly unique. Those are what make an archetype different from a cliche. Yeah, to you. To me, the history and personality meshes of Zutara have been done a ton before. I’ve seen the "they’re both passionate and determined people!" before. I’ve seen the enemies with stuff in common before. I’ve seen these things for other pairings in this very fandom. I’m sorry but I just... do not see what’s engaging about Zutara. I'm sad for you then. Because it's amazing and beautiful. Saw it all on the screen. Nothing behind the story. It is what it is, look no further. 'Grossed out?' Wow. I guess I can understand that because Maiko and Kataang both make my flesh crawl so that's cool. No they probably wouldn't agree with me. But then, I wouldn't agree with them either. One positive interaction is all it takes if it's the right two people. I mean, the furiously passionate kind. But to what end? Start, stop, start, stop. And what about Aang being determined to regain his honor in epi 301? So the story drops one of the most important elements of the end of season 2 and picks up where we left off with The Fortune Teller and with the exception of a few blushes and an 'ambiguous' reaction to a kiss, we've pretty much stayed there. Not seein' the passion, gotta say. Well, Aang's gone pretty freakin' beta to be the main character. Of course canon says he's the main character. The title of the show says he's the main character. But who's the hero at this point? Not Aang. The Aang of seasons 1 & 2 was a hero. I can't believe how much he's backslid. So yeah, Aang technically might be the 'hero' of the piece. But that's not what we're seeing on the screen. Maybe that's the story behind the story, eh?
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Jun 8, 2008 23:10:42 GMT -5
Meh; Aang and pretty much everyone else at this point is taking a back seat since this is basically the fruition of 2.5 seasons of Zuko development; it's Zuko's finale, basically. Once we're done with that; it'll be smooth sailing for everyone else. Aang's still practicing though; still training his arrow off in firebending. I haven't read the Sozin's Comet book, but I think the finale will have some good Aang development; it's ultimately his story, which means his journey will begin at the start, and only reach its end at the very end. That's usually how it works with this kind of story, no?
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jun 9, 2008 0:25:04 GMT -5
Maiko... the building up to it never really started in the show, as they were already a couple by the time S3 started. iroh.org/screencaps/ep23/ep23-377.pngiroh.org/screencaps/ep27/ep27-113.pngiroh.org/screencaps/ep27/ep27-129.pngiroh.org/screencaps/ep27/ep27-133.pngAlso, with Mai/Zuko and Sokka/Yue they did not have a previously negative relationship. They did not have previous romantic buildup with other people. All you had to do was get them together and let feelings take over. With Zutara, you’d have to undo a ton of previous canon. Saw it all on the screen. Nothing behind the story. It is what it is, look no further. Wait, I’m confused on exactly what you mean by "nothing behind the story". Do you mean there’s nothing to Kataang other than the crushing/blushing thing? Because if so, you’d be very wrong. I like Kataang for totally different reasons (epic ships ftw) and reasons most don’t "look further" for. You mean like Mai and Zuko? It took them one date to get back into their epically hilarious yet hilariously epic romance. Seriously though, I would agree that this applies to Zutara if the canon didn’t contradict you. But it does. Zuko and Katara’s positive interaction led to Katara hating Zuko more than she’s hated anyone ever. Dating? I'm sorry but you not watch DOBS? Aang’s need to regain his honor and not fail again played a huge part in that episode. Further more, I really don't get how you think the Aang/Katara relationship hasn't changed. Katara could not have brought Aang back from the dead ("Crossroads of Destiny") and he could not have thanked her so matter factly ("The Awakening") in "The Fortuneteller". Aang could not have said romantic lines to Katara ("The Headband”) and Katara reply in an unambiguous romantic way (same) in "The Fortuneteller". Yes, it is Aang. Aang of season 1 (or 2 maybe) would not faced the challenge of Day of Black Sun so un-afraid and head-on. The Aang of season 1 would not have proclaimed the "Avatar is back!" in "The Awakening". And, still, all the heroic things Zuko is doing now are for Aang.
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Post by deana on Jun 9, 2008 18:18:26 GMT -5
Zuko and Katara have had one positive interaction in the whole series. They’ve also been involved with various other people at various times. There is no way it would work in that amount of time (or the time left in the series but that’s another matter). Honestly, out of the bunches of people I know in real life who watch and love this show, only one was not grossed out by the mere idea of Zuko/Katara. Do you think they’d agree with you? Well, I've had totally different experiences with the bunches of people I know who watch the show. The majority of them (meaning... everyone but one person, who is a Kataang/Zutara multishipper) are disgusted by Kataang. This is probably due to the fact that I hang out with 14-year olds, who would not be caught dead dating a twelve-year oldSo, maybe a single person's social group is not the best way to gather that sort of information? And I'd like to point out that Sokka and Yue's relationship took two episodes. Sokka and Suki's took one. Maiko... the building up to it never really started in the show, as they were already a couple by the time S3 started. I think they have plenty of time to flesh out a Zutara relationship, if the writers so choose. No fourteen year old girl in her right mind would pick a twelve year old boy to date. That is the biggest reason why I will never be able to take this version of Kataang seriously. Older Kataang, I would never ship it, but I can take it seriously. Poor Katara, Sokka and I will laugh at thee if this comes to pass.
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Post by Purplejay on Jun 9, 2008 19:14:00 GMT -5
Aang has proven himself to be so much more mature than the average twelve-year-old, though. Is it just because of physical appearance or maturity that makes dating younger people so unappealing? Hey, it's what happens in the show that matters most, and what the public believes might not always apply. Not saying that canon is always better, though... Kataang is so much more than the hero crushing on some older girl, though. Katara's the one who binds him to the earth. If he has to give her up, it means giving up what makes him human, and in the Crossroads of Destiny, he learned the consequences of refusing to let her go. Pretty epic, in my opinion. I'm not sure what Zutara would accomplish now that Zuko's on their side. True, there used to be so many more possibilities back in Seasons 1 & 2, where a "forbidden love" between the two sounded pretty intriguing. I was even pretty interested in that idea. But then, seeing as Zuko has pretty much redeemed himself by bonding with the Gaang, having a relationship with Katara (Aang's love interest!) would be unneccessary and would pretty much break the ties he's formed with Aang, Sokka, and Toph. It's a nice story of forgiveness, but it would be rushed. And what would Zuko and Katara accomplish by forming a relationship now? It would kind of be thrown in there for no reason (except to cause Aang lots of pain). I kind of like Zutara friendship more than I like Zutara romance. It shows that they trust each other but don't have a rushed relationship.
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Post by mindbender18 on Jun 9, 2008 19:33:23 GMT -5
Yes because a fourteen year old girl would definitely be chopping at the bit to date a emo boy with a huge hideous scar on his face with a bad personality Please.....since you want to talk shallowness, no fourteen year old girl "in her right mind" would want to date a boy like that either. So cancel out Zutara also. Ah...that's one thing I like about Katara, she's not some shallow little airhead like some females in RL are. (And since it's so weird for a 14 year old to be interested in a 12 year old, I guess Kataang's not as cliche as some try to make it out to be )
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 9, 2008 21:00:20 GMT -5
Yes because a fourteen year old girl would definitely be chopping at the bit to date a emo boy with a huge hideous scar on his face with a bad personality Please.....since you want to talk shallowness, no fourteen year old girl "in her right mind" would want to date a boy like that either. So cancel out Zutara also. Ah...that's one thing I like about Katara, she's not some shallow little airhead like some females in RL are. (And since it's so weird for a 14 year old to be interested in a 12 year old, I guess Kataang's not as cliche as some try to make it out to be ) You seem to know a lot about the mind of a fourteen year old girl. But I think we should get some first-hand information from an actual 14-year old. Anyone have one handy? Oh, wait. I am a fourteen-year old girl. And I know you'll probably dismiss me as a shallow, airheaded Zutara fangirl, but... Nobody I know would ever date a twelve year old, even if they were the king of the freaking universe. And in response to the "Would they rather date an older guy with a big nasty scar on his face" comment... Well, this is a bit contradictory, as you are saying Katara isn't shallow later in your post. So, she's not shallow because she might date a twelve-year old. But, wait, Katara would ever be attracted to a guy with a big scar on his face! OFC, this is not shallow at all. I mean, it's only judging people by their face, not their actions and words? You must be right, mindbender. Katara isn't shallow, but she would never be attracted to Zuko because of his face. Anyway. There is a reason Zuko has so many fangirls. If 14-year olds were disgusted by scars... he wouldn't be so popular with the ladies. (And if I'm recalling correctly, Katara didn't show much disgust over Zuko's scar here?)
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Post by mindbender18 on Jun 9, 2008 21:34:09 GMT -5
Hmm....I guess since you seem to know every 14 year old girl in the world, I should listen to this. Oh wait.....you don't Just because you and your little friends wouldn't date someone younger than them doesn't mean every girl in the world wouldn't. (Katara would be one of them ;p) ......Yeah exactly. LOL! I know you tried your darnest to be sarcastic in that post, but you basically agreed with what I said. Katara is not shallow, which means she doesn't have a problem with dating a twelve year old or if things were different, she wouldn't have a problem with dating a boy with a hideous scar on his face either. No where in my post did I mention that she would, but since people always bring up some crazy mess like how "no 14 year old in their right mind would date a twelve year old" then I have to say, well..that same girl wouldn't date a guy like Zuko either. ...Kind of like saying "OH I NEVER DATE HIM BECAUSE HE"S JUST A TWELVE YEAR OLD AND I'M A BIG BAD 14 YEAR OLD!1!!" Or is it totally different? ROFL!!!!! Please, if Zuko was a real person, he wouldn't have an ounce of fangirls (That's what I find so funny about that situation). Don't let those little Zuko cosplayers fool you, a scar like that looks terrible (If you want me too, I will definitely send you a picture of just how that scar would look in real life) How do I know this? Because I have a friend who have a scar almost just like that and I don't see women beating down his door. (I guess if he was a cartoon character on Nick, where the scar could look better than it actually is, things would be different....)
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 9, 2008 21:50:57 GMT -5
......Yeah exactly. LOL! I know you tried your darnest to be sarcastic in that post, but you basically agreed with what I said. That's the point of sarcasm. It seemed like I was agreeing with you, but I really wasn't. Not dating twelve year olds doesn't make a person shallow. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date someone emotionally mature. If I was saying "she won't date him because he's shorter than her and his voice hasn't fully changed yet" that would be shallow. But I was talking about personalities. As much as people tell me otherwise, I can't believe Aang is mature because he is exactly like every other twelve-year old guy I know, except for the whole Avatar thing.
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Post by mindbender18 on Jun 9, 2008 22:02:13 GMT -5
Actually you was....
LOL! I guess that why Katara wants Aang because he's emotionally mature. (no matter what other 14 years olds think)
Also, you seem to think that just because you're older that automatically makes you emotionally mature. WRONG! (Zuko's a good example of this) You can be 40 years old and still be immature.
Anyway, I find Aang to be very mature. In fact, to me, he's more mature than many people my age.
Well....I guess that's your problem.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 9, 2008 22:13:08 GMT -5
You can be 40 years old and still be immature. Yes, I'm aware of that. But we're not talking about other people right now, we're talking about Aang and Zuko. And I'd say Aang is a lot more immature than Zuko. Who, when they got to the Western Air Temple, wanted to play and then got huffy and angry when Katara stopped him and made him get down to buisness? Aang did.Who pretended not to hear Katara, Toph, and Sokka telling him to come back and talk to them? Aang did.He is really not as mature as people make him out to be.
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Post by deana on Jun 9, 2008 22:14:59 GMT -5
......Yeah exactly. LOL! I know you tried your darnest to be sarcastic in that post, but you basically agreed with what I said. That's the point of sarcasm. It seemed like I was agreeing with you, but I really wasn't. Not dating twelve year olds doesn't make a person shallow. There is nothing wrong with wanting to date someone emotionally mature. If I was saying "she won't date him because he's shorter than her and his voice hasn't fully changed yet" that would be shallow. But I was talking about personalities. As much as people tell me otherwise, I can't believe Aang is mature because he is exactly like every other twelve-year old guy I know, except for the whole Avatar thing. This is so true. Kataang was written by two people who were never 14-year-old girls, so they would not realize how unrealistic it is. Once Haru and Zuko joined the group, any chance Aang had would have been gone, if they were portraying a realistic teenage girl's emotions and actions.
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Post by Amira on Jun 9, 2008 22:27:05 GMT -5
ROFL!!! I love how people think that every single girl thinks the same. If I had met Zuko at 14 I would have had nothing to do with him. Why? Whiny, snappish 16-17 year old people who have temper tantrums when they don't get their way, unhealthy dependencies on parents, who are emotionally immature, and who look like every other unremarkable pretty boy are about as dull as dry toast.
But then again, THIS IS AVATAR! It's not "Modern High School Story 2008."
And maybe the creators are thinking that spending time fighting with someone, risking your life with someone, getting to know someone, watching them nearly die, etc. could lead to a relationship. Maybe they weren't looking at age. Because, guess what...I highly doubt Katara does either. In fact I don't remember one instance of her mentioning his age.
And Aang was excited about the temple. And he was upset. And no one understood how he felt about the firebending until Zuko.
But then again, Aang isn't the fandom woobie.
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