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Post by 0ceaness on Oct 28, 2006 21:33:59 GMT -5
What I was trying to imply with my last two posts was that everyone harbors different beliefs. And each concept is right in its own way. So that was my take on the issue. God is the only one who can judge people individually.
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Wilderness Writer
Wolf Sokka
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Post by Wilderness Writer on Oct 28, 2006 23:52:52 GMT -5
Well... I'm a lesbian and this thread makes me feel really sad. I didn't thought there are still so much people against homosexuality just by using the bible as proof. I'm glad that I am an atheist... As someone already mentioned, homosexuality also appears in the animal kingdom so it's a natural way of sexual behaviour. And if I compare nature with a book.. well I prefer the first one. I respect religion, but not when it calls me a sinner just because I love someone and hurts my essential human rights. Well, fortunately not all Christians are so radical. Silenn, I am sorry that you feel offended by the Christian standing on homosexuality. It is in fact very common for Christians to believe in the acknowledgement of homosexuality as a sin, based on what it says in the Bible. It is not a radical view, and it is only over the past decade or so that homosexuality has moved from a taboo in the eyes of the politically correct, to a more glamorized and accepted lifestyle, at least here in America. I do not see where Christians are hurting your human rights. In America, our basic rights are to 'life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.' Simply calling homosexuality a sin because the Bible says it is does not violate any of those principles. It makes sense that, as an atheist, you would not hold the Bible to be the guidline for your life. It is your right not to do so, just as it is my right not to follow Buddah or become a Muslim. I would be the last person to dictate to you what guidelines to follow in your life. As a Christian, however, I have chosen to follow the Bible. To you it may be just a book, but to me it is a moral guide and a compass. To me, it is not just a book of poems or stories or histories. It is a love letter from God, inviting me to share in the blessing and hope he extends through his Son, Jesus. Yes, I do call homosexuality a sin. But by doing so I am not in any way saying that I hate homosexuals or feel that I am somehow better than them. All humans are sinners by nature. I am a siner. It sounds harsh, but all it means is that we are prone to do things we shouldn't. Tell a white lie, cheat on a test, think a little lustful thought. Those are all sins. Christians aren't better than anyone else, they're just given grace.
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Post by Werewolf Cookie on Oct 31, 2006 3:51:15 GMT -5
Wow, I'm pretty impressed with this thread. I'm a Bible-believing Christian, so I'm pretty much obligated to believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I definitely don't have a problem with people who are gay, and I also don't think that it's a sin to be a non-practising homosexual. And to be honest, I'm writing a Zaang fic, heaps of my favourite pairings are boy/boy, Brokeback Mountain is one of my favourite movies ever, and in the comic strip I'm writing, one of the main characters is both Christian and gay. I've noticed that a lot of older Christians, particularly my parents and their friends, feel disgusted with the thought of homosexuality, and react to it the same way I'd react to... I dunno, sibling sex. I think that's more because of the time and place they grew up in, and less because of their beliefs, because I definitely don't feel that same disgust. In fact I think it's kinda hot
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
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Post by attonbitus on Nov 1, 2006 11:29:46 GMT -5
Well, I don't agree with it but it's one of those things what won't go away. I personally think having the states decide whither or not to accept gay marriage is the right way to go.
Some states are just not ready for it and to force the issue on the nation would be a no win for either side.
Keep in mind that many states have laws against sodomy, even though they're not enforced.
My personal view is that it's wrong, but I have no place to force my ideas on anyone. In general I'm fine with them, i have several gay friends, as long as they respect my boundaries on the issue as well.
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Post by demonofthewest on Nov 1, 2006 20:02:56 GMT -5
Well, if anyone actually tried to enforce those laws, there would be hell to pay. And Tertius, what happened to you? You never replied to my post.
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Nov 3, 2006 12:25:29 GMT -5
Now here's a question that's pretty relevant to this topic.
Is being homosexual a choice or is it genetic?
Why is the question relevant?
Well on one hand if it's a choice then it's accepted that these people willingly choose this life style and should not be a considered a "protected" class as those protected groups are selected because their 'situation' is based on circumstances outside of their control. IE being born a women, becoming disabled, etc. Also, there is no amendment in the Constitution or law in the Civil Rights act that guarantees the freedom of sexual orientation and getting that added would be a very up hill battle. HOWEVER, everyone pretty much agrees that the spirit of the Constitution does cover protection from discrimination. Although with no specific legal wording it will continue to be left in legal limbo.
If it was a genetic disposition it would cause homosexuals to fall within the protected class as described above. HOWEVER many people would be quick to point out that if it is genetic that it's a biological anomaly and should be treated as a Genetic defect. The super far right would probably go on to say that it's a genetic illness that should be treated.
So, is this an issue? What do you think?
Oh yeah. If it was genetic, i think it could be argued that having gay parents would not effect the child and therefore should be no reason why gays couldn't adopt.
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Wilderness Writer
Wolf Sokka
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Post by Wilderness Writer on Nov 3, 2006 22:48:11 GMT -5
I believe it's a choice. I have heard rumors of testing being done on whether or not it's genetic, but I have also heard of a heavy bias in those tests (although, lets be honest, are there any studies done that aren't biased in one way or another?) so I am wary of putting much stock in them just yet. IBesides, that, calling homosexuality a 'gene' is a slippery slope that can lead to both good and bad for all of humanity. Labeling people and treating them as if they are either 'diseased' or 'special' only leads to further ostracization and discrimination.
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Post by Awapuhi on Nov 3, 2006 23:04:37 GMT -5
I know plenty of homsoexual individuals, and none have ever felt an inkling of heterosexual desire. I have actually had this discussion with some of them. A friend of mine told me that when she was in preschool, when all the other girls wanted barbies, she was wearing cargo pants and bashing Ken's head off. She never felt any romantic feeling for guys. My uncle was raised in family of devout Catholics, and he is gay. For 5 years after he came out, whenever he saw my Grandma she'd try to set him up with his girl friends. Don't you think, if it was choosing situation, that he would have chosen to be straight to avoid the family issues?
I think that it might be a choice for some people. But it is also something you are born into. Not a disease, just a part of you.
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Growly
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Post by Growly on Nov 3, 2006 23:12:48 GMT -5
The laws against sodomy don't mean much sometimes though - there are folks out there like myself who don't necessarily connect love and sex. I'm bisexual and currently in a relationship with a girl - but sex has not been a factor in that relationship at all. I also know many gay men who do not indulge in what is considered "sodomy", or in anything other than oral intercourse, which men and women do together often. And how can sodomy laws be applied to lesbians anyway?
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Nov 6, 2006 8:51:52 GMT -5
I don't understand why homosexuals go to the same sex for love but I'm fine with it. My school has alot of people who are like that (mostly guys) so it's a pretty common thing and they don't get ridiculed for it, cause if you become friends with one they are real friends...I mean, their not straight but still great friends especially if you want to have a good comedian to hang out with.
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Post by Victim ~*of *~Circumstances on Nov 6, 2006 9:25:12 GMT -5
Now here's a question that's pretty relevant to this topic. Is being homosexual a choice or is it genetic? Why is the question relevant? Well on one hand if it's a choice then it's accepted that these people willingly choose this life style and should not be a considered a "protected" class as those protected groups are selected because their 'situation' is based on circumstances outside of their control. IE being born a women, becoming disabled, etc. Also, there is no amendment in the Constitution or law in the Civil Rights act that guarantees the freedom of sexual orientation and getting that added would be a very up hill battle. HOWEVER, everyone pretty much agrees that the spirit of the Constitution does cover protection from discrimination. Although with no specific legal wording it will continue to be left in legal limbo. If it was a genetic disposition it would cause homosexuals to fall within the protected class as described above. HOWEVER many people would be quick to point out that if it is genetic that it's a biological anomaly and should be treated as a Genetic defect. The super far right would probably go on to say that it's a genetic illness that should be treated. So, is this an issue? What do you think? Oh yeah. If it was genetic, i think it could be argued that having gay parents would not effect the child and therefore should be no reason why gays couldn't adopt. Well, I did here about this one study where you might be more pre disposed to become homosexual because you didn't get alot of love from that one parent.
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Post by Dutchy on Nov 6, 2006 14:04:25 GMT -5
I've seen dr.phil and he said being gay is genetic i heard that before two. I don't mind gay people because they're not different or something so why should i be bothered. I'm not christian so that ain't a point either. I live in holland and here gay-marrage is allowed so... but i don't mind that either. If you see american shows in holland we all think that they are overreacting it while it isn't weird at all because millions and millions of people are gay now (who cares)
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gambitia
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Post by gambitia on Nov 6, 2006 16:55:58 GMT -5
@the Non-Flying Dutchman: YOU HAVE CHESTER IN YOUR SIG! *fangirls* RE: Is homosexuality genetic? This is from a library book I read a few months ago that I unfortunately can't find again. I wish I could, it had a lot of good info....anywho, if I say something incorrect, sorry. I'm going off of memory here. There is evidence that homosexuality is in fact genetic; however the gene for homosexuality is in the mother, not the homosexual person. Scientists have noticed that homosexuality seems to be passed down the mother's line, and this theory would explain the lack of a "homosexuality gene" in homosexual people. Everyone is a female for the first X weeks/months in the womb (I can't remember the exact amount of time). Female is the default gender of all mammals, and everyone would be born female if not for the masculinazation process that happens to fetuses carrying the male Y chromosome. The theory I read said that it is possible that the mother's body may somehow screw up the masculinazation process, so that the male fetus still retains some female characteristics--such as behavior and sexual preference. Essentially, the mind of the male fetus retains some of its earlier female configuration. ((I really hope I explained that right )) Genetic illnesses are very hard to treat, or so I've heard. There's not much you can do about a disease that is hard-wired into someone's genetic code. Even so, that would raise huge ethical questions, and while some may advocate it I doubt it would ever actually happen. But what if homosexuality really is determined by genetics? You have to call it what it is .
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Post by Dutchy on Nov 7, 2006 10:17:28 GMT -5
@the Non-Flying Dutchman: YOU HAVE CHESTER IN YOUR SIG! *fangirls* RE: Is homosexuality genetic? This is from a library book I read a few months ago that I unfortunately can't find again. I wish I could, it had a lot of good info....anywho, if I say something incorrect, sorry. I'm going off of memory here. There is evidence that homosexuality is in fact genetic; however the gene for homosexuality is in the mother, . But what if homosexuality really is determined by genetics? You have to call it what it is . [/quote] That could be right I'm not sure but, what do you think ? Should it be a problem to be gay or have a gay marrage? BTW (im not a fangirl (im a boy)but i do love linin park)
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Grandi
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Post by Grandi on Nov 7, 2006 15:52:00 GMT -5
But what if homosexuality really is determined by genetics? You have to call it what it is . What would make it a disease? It harms nothing, has no negative aspects. Why not just say it is another natural way for humans to exist?
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