Gandalan
Casual Zuko
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 18, 2006 10:40:33 GMT -5
Or the US Government. No Church and State connection was decided pretty early on in our history. Then can religion have marriage back?
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Grandi
Bato
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Post by Grandi on Nov 18, 2006 12:12:03 GMT -5
Or the US Government. No Church and State connection was decided pretty early on in our history. Then can religion have marriage back? Religion NEVER had marriage. I don't get where you think Christianity invented marriage. Also, hypothetically, if religion did control marriage, why would Christianity have to be the only one honored. There are religions in South America and Africa that have spread to the US in recent years, where gay marriage is acceptable. Why should the govt. only honor your religion?
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Gandalan
Casual Zuko
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 18, 2006 13:22:54 GMT -5
Then can religion have marriage back? Religion NEVER had marriage. I don't get where you think Christianity invented marriage. Also, hypothetically, if religion did control marriage, why would Christianity have to be the only one honored. There are religions in South America and Africa that have spread to the US in recent years, where gay marriage is acceptable. Why should the govt. only honor your religion? Alright, I'll explain this again too, and I'll try to elaborate. From a Chrisitian POV, marriage is OURS. Marriage is the bonding of a male and a female before the Lord, bringing them together for a life of happiness. All this marriage crap that the state brings in is simply because they feel a need to be in charge of something. Other religions can have marriage if they want to as well. It's not like we can stop them from marrying each other in their own churches, and honestly, we could care less. Gay marriage is (...8th time?) not allowed according to the Bible. Since MARRIAGE is a Biblical term (...3rd time?), and MARRIAGE belongs to the religions (4th time I think), the state has no right to 'marry' gay people. They can grant legal unions, and NOTHING more. MO.
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Grandi
Bato
Prince of All Cosmos
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Post by Grandi on Nov 18, 2006 15:43:28 GMT -5
Other religions can have marriage if they want to as well. It's not like we can stop them from marrying each other in their own churches, and honestly, we could care less. So what you are saying is that you don't care if gays marry as long as it isn't a Christian marriage? That is fine. No one is trying to say Christians have to let gays marry. That's part of religious freedom. So what you're saying is that states don't have the right to mary ANYONE? Because marriage is apparently unique to religion?
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Post by writer on Nov 18, 2006 16:44:51 GMT -5
Accually there is nothing religious about marriage. In my anthropological stand point. The union of a male and female is normal and animalistic behavior. Marriage is legal binding. It's used as a contract, for joining of families clans and to establish bonds with other relations.
Marriage is just another binding contract and document. <<
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Gandalan
Casual Zuko
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Post by Gandalan on Nov 18, 2006 16:46:10 GMT -5
Other religions can have marriage if they want to as well. It's not like we can stop them from marrying each other in their own churches, and honestly, we could care less. So what you are saying is that you don't care if gays marry as long as it isn't a Christian marriage? That is fine. No one is trying to say Christians have to let gays marry. That's part of religious freedom. Correct. If some other religion 'marries' them, and they want to call it 'marriage', then that's fine. It's not like we can stop them from estabishing a backyard cult and suddnely proclaiming "WE'RE MARRIED!". Nobody would take it seriously, but hey, what can we do? So what you're saying is that states don't have the right to mary ANYONE? Because marriage is apparently unique to religion?[/quote] YES. It's what I've said since the beginning of this argument!
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gambitia
Fiery Ozai
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Post by gambitia on Nov 18, 2006 18:23:46 GMT -5
From a Chrisitian POV, marriage is OURS. Marriage is the bonding of a male and a female before the Lord, bringing them together for a life of happiness. All this marriage crap that the state brings in is simply because they feel a need to be in charge of something. Then the Christian POV is wrong. Marriage is not a Christian concept. Marriage is a human concept. Marriage was around before Christianity, and will continue without Christianity. Hinduism--which predates known history, and is far, far older than any of the Judeo-Christian religions--has marriage ceremonies. MARRIAGE IS NOT CHRISTIAN. Are their Christian definitions of marriage? Yes. But there are also plenty of other religions that have their own definitions of marriage. Christianity is only one facet of that. You can argue that the Christian definition should be the accepted definition because that there are more Christians in America than there are people of any other religion, but that runs contrary to every principle this country was founded on. The first Americans were fleeing religious prosecution--hence the "freedom of religion" clause.
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Nov 18, 2006 21:38:46 GMT -5
Look, you've missed my point about INterracial and gay marrige, but I'm not gonna force it upon you to listen.
On topic. This is what I've been saying the WHOLE TIME. Marrige should be allowed by the government, since marrige was present in Ancient Greece, before Christianity. So CHristians have no right to own the word marrige.
But, if you feel that a Christian Marrige should be hetersexual completely, then that's fine. But you can't stop the government from marrying people who love each other, and want to be legally married, and don't give me this "Legal Union" crud, it's all the same thing.
You also said other religions can allow marrige too, if that's what they wish to call it. So why force it onto gay people that they cannot marry?
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Post by alpacas4eva on Nov 19, 2006 1:01:50 GMT -5
Christians don't own marriage. Both Christians and Jews believe God created marriage. God created marriage to be between a man and a woman. It isn't just Christians that believe this. Other religions use the Old Testament too. The man said, "This is now the bone of my bones and the flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Genesis 2:23-24Just wanted to get that straight.
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Nov 19, 2006 1:25:45 GMT -5
So then the Romans married...for...? They never said their religion owned marrige, but they did come up wiht the idea...wait maybe the Mesapotamians invented marrige...along with the sail and wheel.
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Post by alpacas4eva on Nov 19, 2006 1:28:34 GMT -5
I didn't say any religion or any group of people own marriage. I just said that several religions, Christians and Jews included, believe that God or a god created marriage to be between a man and a woman.
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gambitia
Fiery Ozai
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Post by gambitia on Nov 19, 2006 1:40:56 GMT -5
I didn't say any religion or any group of people own marriage. I just said that several religions, Christians and Jews included, believe that God or a god created marriage to be between a man and a woman. And, like BC said, marriage was used as a contract between families for a long time. And, there's pretty good evidence that cavemen were monogamous. Marriage predates Christianity by a lot. But whatever. Call it a "civil union."
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Horyo
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Post by Horyo on Nov 19, 2006 1:44:23 GMT -5
I didn't say any religion or any group of people own marriage. I just said that several religions, Christians and Jews included, believe that God or a god created marriage to be between a man and a woman. Oh sorry then.
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Post by alpacas4eva on Nov 19, 2006 1:57:09 GMT -5
I didn't say any religion or any group of people own marriage. I just said that several religions, Christians and Jews included, believe that God or a god created marriage to be between a man and a woman. And, like BC said, marriage was used as a contract between families for a long time. And, there's pretty good evidence that cavemen were monogamous. Marriage predates Christianity by a lot. But whatever. Call it a "civil union." Yes it does. Christianity came from Judaism. The people that believed Jesus is the son of God became the first Christians. They were previously Jews. So I suppose what you meant to say by that is that marriage predates Judaism?
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gambitia
Fiery Ozai
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Post by gambitia on Nov 19, 2006 2:03:01 GMT -5
Yes it does. Christianity came from Judaism. The people that believed Jesus is the son of God became the first Christians. They were previously Jews. So I suppose what you meant to say by that is that marriage predates Judaism? People have been staying in commited relationships pretty much since the dawn of humanity. I would consider that marriage. And Hinduism--which predates known history--has marriage customs. I couldn't find any info on when exactly those sprang up, but I'd assume they've been there a long time. Bottom line is, Christians can't claim ownership of marriage. EDIT: And marriage as it is defined today isn't even close to what it used to be. So history can't really play into it...I think. I shouldn't try to think at 1 AM
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