Silent_E
Appa 
A True Flame Master
Posts: 241
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Post by Silent_E on Jan 21, 2008 16:53:18 GMT -5
I don't think Mai needs to verbally express her need to help the world against the Fire Nation, what they are building up for her character is to turn against Azula. Sure she loves Zuko, but she's been given enough reason to break away from Azula besides Zuko. (..and since Azula basically represents the Fire Nation in some ways, it would be the same thing as turning against what the Fire Nation is doing.)
While Mai loves Zuko, and Zuko may help her understand why he did what he did, she will come to her own decision apart from her love for him. It wouldn't be realistic any other way.
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Post by mindbender18 on Jan 21, 2008 22:40:52 GMT -5
They said that both of them (and yes, that means Zuko too) had childhood crushes on each other.
So it doesn't matter how people want to perceive it, the fact is that he did.
.....Really, 8-10 years old having crushes on girls is not all that rare (especially not in this day of age). I bet if I was to go and ask a bunch of 10 year old boys what they thought of girls, 95% of them wouldn't scream out "EWW!1! COOTIES1!!1"
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melloyello
Appa
Beware the Chittering Monkey
Posts: 229
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Post by melloyello on Jan 22, 2008 23:17:00 GMT -5
I don't think Mai's character cares about the fate of the world. If she does turn against Azula, it'll be for her own benefit. Mai's just not someone who is interested in the suffering of humanity as a whole. She's more focused on her own needs, and the needs of the people close to her. I think this is why her character comes under a lot of criticism, but the truth is, most people behave this way on one level or another. If Katara is the equivalent of Lady Diana, and Aang is the equivalent of Bono, Mai would be the soccer mom who lives next door - the one who could care less about nuclear war, provided it doesn't interrupt her spinning class. Not everyone in life is a saint or a crusader, and not everyone needs to be.
I think it's possible that Mai will turn on Azula for personal reasons, then help the Gaang during the finale, just because Zuko thinks it's a good idea, and because she really doesn't care either way. She wouldn't be the first girl to do something just because her boyfriend wanted her too...
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Post by dragonflly on Jan 23, 2008 0:14:47 GMT -5
^^Ok the first half of your post is what I was getting at, but I guess it didn't come out that way. I have a horrible way of saying things.........I need to work on that.
The second half is where I have a problem. Specifically the last line. Mai is perceived to be kinda smart, it would be highly disappointing for her go just because of Zuko. That is the part that would be disappointing to me. If her heart wasn't in the same place as his(and I'm not talking about their relationship), why bother. I don't like that message. I'd want her to do her own thing, that would make more sense of her character.
@mindbender18: Ok so maybe some 8-10 yr olds have crushes. But a crush that lasts fro 10-16/17, without seeing that person for 3 yrs.........very unrealistic. I know it's a cartoon, but really. I really don't care what THEY said, what they say and what they show are different. The idea of them both having a crush may have been what they had in mind, but more people than not saw none of it. So if that was what they wanted to portray, in my mind and in other's, they failed, it could've been done much better. This part of the story was horrible writing, and bad storytelling. Again only my opinion, I know it's not yours.
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melloyello
Appa
Beware the Chittering Monkey
Posts: 229
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Post by melloyello on Jan 23, 2008 0:41:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't be very happy about Mai going along with the Gaang just because Zuko wanted her too either. You're right, it doesn't send a very good message to young women.
But, I do expect Mai to turn on/leave Azula, and I don't see why the writers would do so if it weren't for her to join the resistance movement. If she does turn on Azula, and doesn't join the Gaang, what is she going to do? We don't have time to give her a story seperate from the Gaang or the FN, and I hate the thought of her leaving Azula, and just walking off into the sunset, with no character resolution whatsoever. I suppose they could have her leave Azula and conveniently return after Ozai is defeated, but then what would be the point of her leaving Azula in the first place?
If she does leave Azula, she probably will join the Gaang, and if she joins the Gaang, either they can have her decide to help because she feels she needs to do her part in stopping the war, or because she thinks it'll give her brownie points with Zuko. In my opinion, neither one is a satisfactory alternative, but I'll pick the Zuko one because I feel it's slightly better than the first choice, which I think would just be horribly out of character.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod 
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 23, 2008 0:50:03 GMT -5
Could she not leave Azula and join up with some as yet to be revealed resistance movement?
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Post by mindbender18 on Jan 23, 2008 0:54:40 GMT -5
Well look at this way, not much on this show is Well "in my minds and in others" they didn't fail. Yes, it could've been better, but I still like it and others do too. (Despite what many of you think, not everyone is against Maiko and did believed it was going to be more than just a mere one-sided crush and saw evidence for it. And guess what? We were right) Seriously, I'm loving this "me and my fellow anti-Maikos don't like it so that means it's bad storytelling and should die!11!!" attitude  |
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 23, 2008 1:23:38 GMT -5
Heck...even I, who as you all must know never cared for this couple, knew there was going to be SOMETHING...I knew they didn't establish Mai's crush for nothing, just as we all knew the show wouldn't end with the eclipse after all the Sozin's Comet build up.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant 
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Jan 23, 2008 1:31:34 GMT -5
Seriously, I'm loving this "me and my fellow anti-Maikos don't like it so that means it's bad storytelling and should die!11!!" attitude I like Maiko, though, and I did see it coming. And I still say it should have been written better, even though awkward teen romance was apparently part of the point of the relationship.  |
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Jan 23, 2008 1:43:08 GMT -5
I actually didn't mind it in Nightmares and Daydreams...if it had been like that from the beginning I'd probably feel similar to Kataang about it...
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Post by dragonflly on Jan 23, 2008 2:41:03 GMT -5
mindbender18: I never once said that anyone should die! I said it was bad storytelling, and it is. And yes, I do know alot of people who do like Maiko and THEY themselves were suprised it happened.......the WAY it did. I won't deny that I knew Mai had a crush on Zuko an dI did know it would come up again, but no, there was no indidcation of Zuko's crush, THAT was the part that was badly done.
If they can pull off the whole Mai joins the Gaang because it's the right thing, I'll be VERY impressed. But I feel that this is gonna be another badly written section that I am not looking forward to seeing. Again, they left little time to do certain things and they are forcing things and RUSHING things, I don't like that. You just can't rush through some things.
Again, these are my thoughts, no one has to agree with me. I personally don't care if you do, hell I'm glad you seem to like rushed stories and things thrown at you over the course, I do not, and guess what, I don't have to! However, I will state that I am NOT ALONE in these thoughts, there are many who agree. There are many who don't, that's fine. None of the arguements are gonna change my perspective on what I've seen, and until I see the end, it won't change my expectations of what's to come. In the end, I may feel different. I guess I'll have to see, but for now, I'm not expecting to enjoy too much except the final battle!
Ok, how about we change the subject............can we find a new couple to discuss, please? This is getting tiring.
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melloyello
Appa
Beware the Chittering Monkey
Posts: 229
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Post by melloyello on Jan 23, 2008 11:26:21 GMT -5
She could, but I really want thier to be a good in-character reason for her joining, and I honestly can't think of one. Unless, possibly, Azula reveals some huge destructive plan and Mai leaves her and joins a resistance movement because she realizes Azula's dangerous and needs to be stopped.
Anyway, new topic ...umm.. I have to say, Toph accepting Zuko was really surprising to me, and thier interaction was really interesting and well done. She's like the (non-psycho) little sister Zuko never had!
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Ana
Metalbending Cop 
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jan 23, 2008 15:43:59 GMT -5
Thanks for trying though. I do appreciate it. I'm still hoping to find what I'm looking for! Maybe you’re looking for the spoilers for season three that were on IMBD? The guy posting those didn't have a very positive view on Maiko but, then again, he say they were a "perfect couple". It was me! For one, where did I ever say Mai would be become someone who goes "Oh no, we must do nothing but good!"? All I said was that she’s going to see all this war is not quite right. For two, the fact that Mai is "only interested in Zuko" would help her do this. Zuko loves Mai so there is no doubt in my mind he wants her to realize what he has finally realized: the Fire Nation is wrong. So, because 1) her character arc is obviously going towards a point where she has to care, 2) her character arc is obviously going towards a point where she betrays Azula, and 3) she loves Zuko (which is not a bad and obsessive thing!) Mai would not have to change at that much to be a "good guy". And I still say it should have been written better, even though awkward teen romance was apparently part of the point of the relationship. Really, the only parts of Maiko I thought were badly written were their instant coupling in The Awakening and their instant re-coupling in The Beach. Other than that, I thought they were (or, rather, still are) a sweet/amusing couple... Anyway, new topic ...umm.. I have to say, Toph accepting Zuko was really surprising to me, and thier interaction was really interesting and well done. She's like the (non-psycho) little sister Zuko never had! I was not surprised! I mean, Toph already liked Iroh and she had no negative interactions with Zuko to affect her judgment. Still, it was very interesting and cute to see their interaction. I thought it was cuter how Sokka was carrying Topyh by himself at the end though. <3 |
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Post by dragonflly on Jan 24, 2008 23:23:25 GMT -5
^^ What I'm looking for is an actual interview, it was posted here some time ago and I can't find it anywhere. I may be wrong, but what that person was quoted as saying, isn't exactly the same thing that was printed in this article. Oh well, it doesn't matter.
Mai could care less about anything in life, except maybe Zuko. She doesn't care about the war or what's going on around her, so it would be a drastic change to see her care about something else. Zuko may want her to realize the war is wrong, but she must do it one her own, not at his urging or just because she loves him. Even though Iroh loved Zuko and urged him to do the right thing, Zuko eventually came to this on his own, and whatever was said in the meeting in 309 was the bell ringer. Mai must do the same thing here, she just can't leave everything she believes behind, she must decide it is wrong without him, just like Zuko did without Iroh. The only thing we have seen of her thus far is that she is tired of Azula bossing her around, and I'm not even sure we all agree on that. This doesn't mean that she's gonna run off and join Zuko, and if she does, it certainly doesn't mean that she's on the right side, she's just there to be with Zuko. That would be the problem, not that she's there, but she's there for the wrong reason. Ursa didn't agree with Ozai, and neither of them seemed very happy in the end, did they. If Mai were to realize the war was wrong, things aren't right, and decides on her own that joining Zuko is the right thing, yeah I'd say that is a drastic change in her character from the "whatever" attitude she's desplayed from day one. And only having a few eppies to do it in makes it worse.
Anyway that's my thought....I'm sorry if I seemed to put words in your mouth, I didn't mean to. I'm not very good at explaining stuff, I hope this made my view just a bit clearer, although I'm exhausted and need sleep badly. I'm not gonna tough this subject again, I don't think myself and a few others are ever gonna agree so............
Can we move on to the next subject/relationship please? That'd be great....
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jan 26, 2008 12:46:40 GMT -5
Oh well, it doesn't matter. Aww, but I want to know now.  What do you remember the interview saying? You know, the way you wrote this made it seem like if Mai leaves the Fire Nation because of her love for Zuko that would make it magically easy for her. It wouldn’t. Even if Zuko was her main driving force, she would still have to escape Azula. She would still have to learn how to feel. She would still not want to be in the corruption anymore. Also, wanting to stand by your boyfriend is a good character trait. It’s okay. Just for the record, I think it will be surprising when Mai inevitably betrays Azula/the Fire Nation. To go from "whatever" to "I’m willing to leave this all behind" is a pretty big step but Zuko took those big steps too. All I was arguing was Mai’s path to "redemption" is easier than, say, Zuko’s and it wouldn’t be drastic to the point of out of character. That’s what I was trying to do with the Tokka thing. Let’s see.. I really like that Aang and Zuko are friends now. I’ve been waiting for it for a long time and I think they both need a real good male friend. |
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What do you remember the interview saying?