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Post by wildimagination on Jan 29, 2007 20:54:37 GMT -5
Obviously Nick won't do anything kinky. Most nick.com users don't know what the word means. And I'm not going to write Zhaola, although I'd love to draw a fan comic with Azula telling Zuko she's pregnant: Azula: Zuko... I'm pregnant. Zuko: D: Azula: ...And Zhao's the father. Zuko: *pictures scary little girl with sideburns who wants to kill him, then shoots self. Repeatedly* HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG That was funny! ^_^
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Jan 29, 2007 21:01:44 GMT -5
lets not stray too off topic here guys ok?
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 29, 2007 22:36:38 GMT -5
Frankly if I saw Azula getting involved in a relationship on the show, I would assume that she was doing so merely as a trick to get the upper hand on someone. I would assume that even if the show ended before she betrayed that person.
I'm sorry, but Azula has never shown any signs of sympathy, compassion, empathy, consideration, trustworthyness, honesty, love, amusement that was not spiteful, or general human decency.
Those are important traits to create a relationship, neh?
There is absoluetly no evidence at all that Azula will ever be remotely capable of being in a loving relationship with anyone.
You want her to flesh out? Show more dimensions? Why? I like her as she is. I don't want to see a good side of her, and I know I'm not alone. Most people like Azula so much because of her pure, unwavering evilness.
Azula is what she is, it's really too late to suddenly start changing her into a compassionate character out of the blue. Look at Zuko--from the second episode we could see that he was not a brute; he agreed to leave the village alone when Aang went with him. What would Azula have done? As soon as Aang was on the boat, she would have destroyed the village.
Azula being in a relationship, in my opinion, will NEVER happen on the show, unless they completely change her character, and then...quite frankly she wouldn't be as cool.
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aquavi
Casual Zuko
Yay for old skool!
Posts: 981
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Post by aquavi on Jan 29, 2007 22:47:55 GMT -5
First, I think we all agree that Azula getting into a relationship is highly unlikely. I know i've said it, and I'm sure others have too, so no point in bringing that up again and again. However her lack in ability to make said relationships IN CANON does not mean that she is unshippable IN FANON. But can't say I've read many Azula-ship fics so I don't know how OOC fandom has taken her.
If I insinuated that I wanted a 'good' side of Azula to been shown, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, because I don't want that either. I'd just like something else besides that Ozai nutured her into what she is. I'd like to know why Ursa had no effect on her, whatsoever. Zuko has shown that both his parents have had lasting effects on him, so why does Azula only have it from one side? As far as I can tell, nothing from canon tells us that.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 29, 2007 23:02:23 GMT -5
Sorry, I thought the thread topic was "which ship do you think will actually happen?" ;p
That's why I put emphasis on a canon relationship. You opinion about whether Azula is capable of loving is your own, yet I disagree with it 100%
I don't think or want Azula to so abruptly change without any prior signs.
I believe I know why Azula hasn't shown a side of herself that resembles Ursa: Azula didn't fear and respect Ursa. She feared and respected Ozai's power, cleverness, and strength, because those are the only things that seem to matter in her eyes.
She didn't respect Iroh because he didn't have the "killer instinct" Ozai does. The "killer instinct" Azula now carries. She didn't respect Zuko because she could easily defeat him. Azula doesn't love her father, she fears and respects him. Azula doesn't love anyone. What could cause that to change?
Now about fanon and fanfiction...I could write a fanfiction about Sokka being a cyborg, but that wouldn't make it more likely for him to shoot lasers out of his eyes on the show.
My arguements are based soley on canon. Whatever someone wants or dreams what Azula might become is nothing but wants and wishes right now. I'm not trying to poop on anyone who dreams about Azula/anyone relationships, I'm just saying that I believe it impossible, based on evidence we have now.
Things could change, but I don't think or want them to with Azula.
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aquavi
Casual Zuko
Yay for old skool!
Posts: 981
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Post by aquavi on Jan 29, 2007 23:16:49 GMT -5
Well I don't think anyone said that Azula was capable of loving, just that an Azula ship could sail if Azula initiated it for purposes of her own. It's in character but very un-Nick. I don't think Azula fears anyone, not even Ozai. She respects him sure, but fear isn't something Azula feels if ever. I'd just like to know why some sort of mother-daughter relationship didn't develop earlier on before Azula got influenced by Ozai. (I'd like to blame an Electra complex, but there's really no proof of that.) And I'm fully aware of the differences between canon and fanon, fact and fantasy but we are talking about 'what if's' right? Which means interpretation and speculation of canon. Do I think Azula can have relationships? Yes. Do I think they'll be healthy ones, perticularly for the other party involved? NO. Of course interpretation and speculation are extremely grey areas since everyone does it differently, which is why ship wars happen so much and suck even more.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 29, 2007 23:24:47 GMT -5
There in lies, the main problem: I'm not talking about 'what ifs.' I'm talking about what I logically think possible. I only like 'what ifs' if they are reasonably possible, in my eyes, to occur. I don't like 'what ifs' that require major, extreme measures. Like "what if Azula was capable of love?" is too unlikely for anything other than dreaming and musing to me. It would require a major personality overhaul.
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aquavi
Casual Zuko
Yay for old skool!
Posts: 981
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Post by aquavi on Jan 29, 2007 23:41:46 GMT -5
There in lies, the main problem: I'm not talking about 'what ifs.' I'm talking about what I logically think possible. I only like 'what ifs' if they are reasonably possible, in my eyes, to occur. I don't like 'what ifs' that require major, extreme measures. Like "what if Azula was capable of love?" is too unlikely for anything other than dreaming and musing to me. It would require a major personality overhaul. Bolding mine because it makes my point. And as for a major personality overhaul for Azula... could occur in events that take place after the S3 finale. But there's just some more [extremely fanish] speculation. And even then, would depend on how S3 ends.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 29, 2007 23:51:14 GMT -5
I never said my opinions were fact, I've said several times these are just my personal thoughts. I think this way, because there's still no proof of Azula showing a compassionate side, and it seems far too late to change things around.
Events after season 3 would require that there are further seasons after 3. Mike and Bryan had the story pre-written up to 3 seasons, which means they already had Azula's storyline concluded. She's probably dead or in chains. I don't see them abruptly making her a different person at the very end of the story. It would be like Sauron sudenly deciding he doesn't want to rule the world, he wants to become a vetrenarian, at the very end of of the lord of the rings. Rather anti-climactic.
I think Zuko's destined to defeat his sister. He has this lightning-redirecting move ready to use, and who do you think he'll use it on? S3 finale likely has Zuko fighting, and defeating, Azula.
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Post by Werewolf Cookie on Jan 30, 2007 2:03:48 GMT -5
I just want to clarify that I don't think Azula will be in a relationship in canon, and you're right, the thread is meant to be about relationships that will become canon, so we're taking it a wee bit off topic. But just because Azula probably won't be in a canon relationship doesn't mean that Azula as a character can't be in some sort of relationship in IC fanon and fanfiction. I've read a fair number of fics where a completely compassionless Azula, defeated but spared by the Gaang, decides to increase her power and influence by becoming involved with a member of the Gaang (usually Sokka or Katara, sometimes Aang, I've only ever read one Azula/Toph fic). Sure, Azula isn't really in love with that person, and doesn't feel compassion for them, but if they love her and she acts like she loves them, and they are in a relationship that may or may not be consummated, it's an in-character relationship between Azula and another character. Some fics even have Azula being influenced by whichever character she's involved with, and discovering some real love for that person (although this is quite OOC, it can work if done gradually enough. Usually, however, for this to be done gradually enough, the fic has to be ridiculously long, and I lose interest).
I'm going to compare Azula to Gaara for a second. I don't know if you watch Naruto, yiceman, and to be honest I'm not much of a fan myself, but I'm going to use Gaara as an example. When Gaara was first introduced in Naruto, he was cold, cruel and evil. He hated his brother and liked to kill things. He was also incredibly powerful. See some similarities? Gaara's character changed to become a better person, and he's now often shipped with Naruto, Lee and other characters, and kept reasonably IC in fanfic. And he's still a totally kickass character. I'm not saying that I want Azula to become a better person. I'm just pointing out that it's not inconcievable for her to learn to love, especially with the influence of a love interest, and that fanon ships don't have to take her out of character.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 30, 2007 3:28:18 GMT -5
Afraid I don't watch Naruto, or any anime for that matter, but how long did it take Gaara to change personalities? Because right now, Azula hasn't changed at all. SHe would have to transform in one season. Aslo remember that this was planned as only 3 seasons, meaning that Azula's story has closure (probably with her dead).
The only similar instance I can think of would be Darth Vader in the original Star Wars movies. He was a mean, grumpy person, yet at the very end BAM he's a hero. Yet he's a tragic hero, because he dies. A romance would require more than Azula tossing Ozai off a cliff in the end.
Another interesting tidbit--You said Gaara hated his brother? Then Gaara has shown one more emotion than Azula ever has. Azula doesn't hate Zuko, or Iroh, or the Avatar, she doesn't seem to hate anyone. She doesn't seem to have any particular feelings at all. The closest thing to emotion I've seen from her has been spiteful enjoyment of the pain of others.
I still don't hold fanficture as truth, because those are other people's writings, which means they're likely to sway certain characters personalities in a way they would like to see. As I said before, I could write a story where Sokka is a cyborg...
Now if you want to talk about whether or not Azula, the REAL Azula (not a fanfiction Azula), is capable of being in a relationship, forgetting whether or not she actually will on the show, ok.
Here's my position: Nope. Not unless she gets a personality transplant.
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Post by Werewolf Cookie on Jan 30, 2007 4:10:46 GMT -5
Sure, you could write a fic about Cyborg!Sokka, but it wouldn't be in-character at all. My point was that, yes, within the show there isn't enough time for Azula to undergo a personality change, but a good writer could stay true to her character and write her in a relationship. No, I don't think Azula has much canon shipping potential, but I like to ship her in fanon. It's lots of fun.
And I probably should have said that Gaara's older brother hates him. Gaara seems to not really think of him as his brother at all, and doesn't care if he lives or dies. He treats him badly and doesn't care about his brother's feelings at all.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 30, 2007 19:05:50 GMT -5
Hmm, perhaps. I don't tend to trust fanfiction, myself.
Any other ships worth debating?
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Post by Werewolf Cookie on Jan 30, 2007 19:51:54 GMT -5
Yeah, okay. Song, Jin, Haru, Meng, etc. Do you think they're coming back? And do you think they have a chance with any of our beloved main characters?
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jan 30, 2007 23:25:31 GMT -5
Coming back? Possibly. Beocming a romantic interest for anyone? Naw. Song/Jin I don't see either of them being involved enough in the storyline to be able to keep up with Zuko. They both live in the Earth Kingdom, and we've heard that most of season 3 will take place in the Fire Nation. They would both have to give up everything and follow Zuko all over the place. Plus, Zuko has numerous WAY more important tasks he needs to accomplish. Any romance with him would take a while to develope, which means whoever the girl is would have to follow him around while he does whatever he's got to do. Haru--I never really noticed a spark there with Katara. More like undertsanding. Plus, if they tossed aside kataang for Haru/Katara, a lot of people would go berserk. What about Toph/Haru? ...the wierd thing is...Haru would be the girl and Toph the boy in that relationship. Meng--Egads Teo--With who? There never seemed to be any sort of connection between him and Katara. Plus, he's kind of stuck up there in the Northern Air Temple. Who else is there? It seems to me that if they were going to bring back a side character for romance, they would have done the same thing they did with Suki--show an actual gesture of "lovey-dovey," at the end of the episode.
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