Forum Revamp?

[username]

Sept 9, 2008 9:42:18 GMT -5 godhunter said:

Honestly, I don't see a need to merge or change anything. Its not like any of the boards are innactive or anything, so I don't see a real need to change anything.

I don't see any reason to not do it, other than that it would take effort. So Grandi's comment is somewhat valid.

If you were making DH now, would it look the way it does? (And yes by the way, some of the boards are somewhat inactive.) The only reason to keep it is because it's simpler to not change things, and that's not exactly progress. You had even said earlier, what happens to the spoiler board depends on what they announce at the SDCC, and they ended up not announcing anything really.

The proposed design for the Avatar section of the forum would simply work better than what we have now.

As for the RP boards, I don't think "It looks funny" is a good enough reason to not move it to a more aesthetically logical location.

[Grandi]

Sept 11, 2008 17:16:46 GMT -5 godhunter said:

I referred to the RP boards 'screwing up everything in the middle' because that is how it was looked at by the people who don't like its placement. In all honesty I think that they work very well with their current placement.

I don't think you used other people's negative opinions about forum placement to justify the point in keeping the status quo. I'm pretty sure you admitted they were out of place and you liked it because it was quirky and humorous to you.

If you look at the current forum layout you'll notice that we have the avatar and general discussion boards at the top and the bottom. Then the two DH sections are the second from the top and the second from the bottom with the RP boards sitting in the middle. It gives the forum a structure and symmetry that would not exist if you combined the boards, and I personally happen to like that symmetry. Also if you look at what is actually in the DH categories you'll notice that the boards that people are more likely to respond to (DHgen, Suggestions, Contests) are in one section while the other section is more geared toward less discussion based topics (SB, Trash, Welcome). It might not be a bad idea to switch the Legendary and Questions sections, but I think that they way they are grouped makes a whole lot more sense than changing them around to make the forum look smaller.

What that paragraph comes down to is your opinion of liking a larger board with more sections opposed to a smaller streamlined board. While your opinion is valid in the way that opinions are it's not a big enough argument to deter this from happening. Unless you just like the layout enough to block the revamp a lot of people are for.

I don't really care if you don't agree with me, but to belittle me by calling me lazy and saying I have no sense is something I'm not gonna sit quiet about. If you disagree with me, fine. State your case and listen to mine. To blow of the other side of a debate without so much as considering it coupled with condescending comments doesn't exactly sound like the best idea in the world.

I'm more than capable of considering and rejecting the other side of an argument mentally without detailing it step by step to show you. And yes, laze is part of it. Maybe fear of change, though god knows why you would be afraid of changing a forum. Most of these proposals are frankly common sense, and to deny common sense because of an opinion doesn't leave many respectful ways to consider your side of the debate.

The idea has been taken to the staff board and rest assured that this thread will be kept up to date with any updates, and know that if its decided that the change will help than we'll do it.

That sounds good and all until you read up and see your quote

Honestly, I don't see a need to merge or change anything. Its not like any of the boards are innactive or anything, so I don't see a real need to change anything. The only thing that I could think might happen would be the TAG thing but that would be a very long process by nature.

Apparently none of this is ever going to happen at all, so why did you bring it up to the staff?

I don't see the merit however of altering the existing layout that hasn't had problems since the beginning without seriously looking at it.

Logical fallacy. It's called Appeal to Tradition. That line of thinking means that if something has worked for a long time it doesn't need to be changed. What this ignores are the options that an alternative idea might work better. That there are drawbacks to the current idea/policy. Or that circumstances aren't the same as they were when the board was first created.

It's hardly a leg to stand on.

[Paraiba Ocean]

I'm going to have to go with Grandi on this one. xD;;

Obviously.

I don't see the merit however of altering the existing layout that hasn't had problems since the beginning without seriously looking at it.

...but this forum was created when the series was still running. It's not now. It's generally not a good idea to base decisions on conditions from the past instead of current conditions and needs.

I just don't see why it's okay for us to clean up the RP boards and make them more manageable, but not okay to clean up the whole forum.

[Gran Gran]

K, people....enough.

I seriously hate to pull anything on another staffer, or on people I consider friends.

But the tone of this discussion is not productive.

May I suggest the following:

First everybody appoligize for inappropriate assumptions on behalf of the other party. Would help if you meant it, too...but I am not pressing my luck here.


Second, instead of just sitting back and demanding and belittling, give me some arguments why what you want is better then what is.

Be advised I HATE change unless I bring it about. give me a good reason to support your side.

[username]

Second, instead of just sitting back and demanding and belittling, give me some arguments why what you want is better then what is.

We have a board for discussing unaired episodes of a show that ended two months ago.

[Grandi]

The first post explains all the nuances of the changes, and the reasoning behind it. Right now we're dealing with arguments against it, which aren't incredibly convincing or substantial, so it's hard to actually respond in a way other than calling out the arguments as illogical and full of fallacies.

[username]

Yah, what Grandi said. The reasons were all given at the beginning, argument against was given later, counter to the argument was successfully delivered. CHECK TO THE MOTHAF***IN' MATE SON!

[Grandi]

Sept 11, 2008 18:40:10 GMT -5 @username said:

Yah, what Grandi said. The reasons were all given at the beginning, argument against was given later, counter to the argument was successfully delivered. CHECK TO THE MOTHAF***IN' MATE SON!

In a nutshell really

[Gran Gran]

Kaneda, shut up.... you are not even in the same league as the 2 main antagonists just parroting does really add nothing, cursing demminishes the weight of your (I mean Grandi's) argument!

Grandi... I must say the first argument on your side was 'lazy' not convincing.

So, now can we get back to the discussion?

DH/Distant Horizon merger

Why?

move RP..where to? not even asking why.

Spoiler board....well as I recall there are hints that the story arch might be spun further. so we kill it now? Yes, easily re-created... but still.

what else.... oh... estethical preferences....they are not arguable, that, too is a fallacy. people like the things they do for reasons of their own. Some things can grow on you some not.

[night]

RP won't be moved. The DH Forum category and Distant Horizon category will be merged, that is all concerning categories.

And how was Grandi's first argument in any way lazy? Just wondering...

[Grandi]

Sept 11, 2008 18:47:43 GMT -5 Gran Gran said:

what else.... oh... estethical preferences....they are not arguable, that, too is a fallacy. people like the things they do for reasons of their own. Some things can grow on you some not.

Aesthetic preferences are irrelevant to common sense. Especially if those preferences are developed from nostalgia and Appeal to Tradition.

Because personally "liking the way it looks now" has no bearing on how the forum works. Especially when the opinion aesthetics is in the minority.

[syarafire]

Oh, dear. I find a lot of the suggestions in the first post to be very valid. Theories, I think, should be kept because of the nature of the finale - not everything was wrapped up, leaving room for viewers to make assumptions and theorize. Since it will be getting very little activity now that the series is over, I think making it a sub-board of Avatar General might be a good idea.

The spoilers board is pretty unnecessary, I believe. The creators have said that the story is over and done with. Sure, there are movie 'spoilers', but I think creating a board (or even a category) separate for the movies would be a good idea, when the time comes. And the movie is supposed to follow the plotline of the original story, so there isn't really much to 'spoil'.

I think the RP boards are fine the way they are now - they were just recently re-organized.

I think merging the DH General and DH Forum categories is a good idea - both deal with basically the same subject matter, and it would make the forum look a bit nicer and less cluttered without deleting any boards.

[Gran Gran]

Sept 11, 2008 18:59:16 GMT -5 Grandi said:

Sept 11, 2008 18:47:43 GMT -5 Gran Gran said:

what else.... oh... estethical preferences....they are not arguable, that, too is a fallacy. people like the things they do for reasons of their own. Some things can grow on you some not.

Aesthetic preferences are irrelevant to common sense. Especially if those preferences are developed from nostalgia and Appeal to Tradition.

Hmm define 'common sense' other then a supposed logic assumed for most parts.

Because personally "liking the way it looks now" has no bearing on how the forum works. Especially when your opinion on aesthetics is in the minority.

Since no poll has been conducted this argument bases on assumption. Assumptions are the mother of all screw-ups. Nostalgia and traditions are not bad things to be thrown out, just because they are old. As well as not all new things are actually an improvement.

And this still leaves that imposing judgment of another person's preferences is also a fallacy.

@ night: Grandi's first argument was that staff is too lazy to change things.

[Horyo]

I agree with Night that we should do some form of a forum poll.

As for staff not doing anything, it's not because they're lazy or too unwilling to click some buttons; the staff is trying to plan out the best possible maneuvers to handle suggestions like these without totally scarring the forum (llike the whole empty board/no mods issue). The reason the boards are still around is because:

-it's still being used, whether regardless of the amount of activity in comparison to other boards.
-they might be needed in the future for fun active conversations, my point pertaining mostly to the theories.

Kaneda, if you don't keep the discussion appropriate and proper, I might ask you to leave until you are better suited to this thread. That goes for everyone else, as well.

And Grandi, from what I saw, you never responded to my original post here or Jade's, so calling the arguments unconvincing is pretty insulting.

[Paraiba Ocean]

I'll insert a poll. What kind of poll do you want me to do?

I'm just not sure how to do the voting.