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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 19:46:07 GMT -5
TZN: What was the biggest element to the show that you hadn't envisioned when you started it?
TophKONIETZKO: Toph being a girl, probably (both laugh). She was going to be a big, muscular guy, which is why that joke from the panel is funny to us (referring to the upcoming "The Ember Island Players" episode -- ed). In fact, the guy in the opening title sequence, the Earthbender, was kind of a prototype of Toph, but Aaron Ehasz, the head writer, just really pitched that she should be a girl. And actually, I fought it for a long time, but I totally came on board, and now she's one of my favorite characters. Once I was on-board, Mike and I came up with this idea that she was beating up all these big wrestler-type guys, and now I love her. I love that she's just a tiny, 12-year old girl that kicks butt.
DIMARTINO: And I never would have thought that the potential Katara/Zuko romance was going to be so ... you know, so big for people? Because honestly, that wasn't our intention from the start (laughs).
KONIETZKO: We knew about it...
DIMARTINO: We knew there would be some tension, but it wasn't like we were going to play that up too much, so it's cool to see people getting into that romance stuff.
KONIETZKO: I think we've met some people where when he has her necklace in episode 109, people were like, "Oh, they're going to get together." (laughs) We were like, "Whoa! You guys are jumping ahead!" But, whatever...people see what they want to see.
Zenjamin, I am a bit surprised that you are suprised at my feelings looking at the question they was asked. It was not the time to bring up Zutara if it wasn't going to be a big element of the series.
If I remember correctly they said that 50% of the fans liked Zutara, in that DVD thing. That made the Zutara fans equal to the number of Kataang fans, in their eyes. Why point Zutara out as a "big" element of the fandom and not also Kataang in that section?
If they had made this observation anywhere else, I would let the point go.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 27, 2008 19:50:28 GMT -5
we are misunderstanding eachother, I think.
I agree that M&B see it as a "big" element. but within the fandom (again, the whole time they were talking about it in the context with the fans.) it being a "big" element in the fandom, does not equate to a "big" zutaran moment in cannon.
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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 19:55:51 GMT -5
we are misunderstanding eachother, I think. I agree that M&B see it as a "big" element. but within the fandom (again, the whole time they were talking about it in the context with the fans.) it being a "big" element in the fandom, does not equate to a "big" zutaran moment in cannon. I know what they said. It is the banner under which they decided to fly it under that intrigues me. It just another moment of them bringing up Zutara at a time in which there was no real reason to do so. Couple that with the question that was asked in the first place.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 27, 2008 20:07:32 GMT -5
Again, remember that they were laughing when they said this. this was a verry informal interview, and they did not have anything scripted out ,like "when should I bring up zutara?"
Seriously, just imagine how they felt at the moment. We are analyzing their interview WAY more then they ever did.... it just sorta came out because it came to Bryan's mind when they were talking about what surprised them.
there was no real "reason" to bring up most of what they talked about. they were just casually giving an interview for the fans. Not trying to tweak and manipulate the expectations of the fandom.
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Post by textbender on Apr 27, 2008 20:11:54 GMT -5
PS: textbender, I think your reaction to aang just being a kid that you cant feel "heat" towards is funny, because Bryal identifies with Aang and even said he looks looks like him. I can imagine his hurt look now. ;D seriously though, i doesnt matter if you felt the "heat" during the kataang dance or not, there will always be people who differ in preference. what matters is how katara felt during that scene. It's true... I guess I'll get no vicarious satisfaction from this show... But Michael looks a bit like Zukko... so maybe the two creators are fighting over who gets the girl... (no, they said they don't disagree about any major things). I'll watch Katara more closely... Deanna, I came to Avatar very late, too. I saw it in order though. I saw so many moments that I thought prepared something intense between Zukko and Katara. I was one of those who saw the necklace thing and wondered if it was foreshadowing. At the time I didn't like Zukko, though. I didn't like it when he put the necklace around her neck either. But just when he found her necklace, it was like a little jolt. Then, with the first flashback of his refusing to fight his father, I started wondering about him. The more flashbacks from his childhood I saw, the more I realized he would choose right in the end. His matching against Katara at the end of Season 1 also seemed some kind of foreshadowing (a love & war kind of thing). I also like the fire and water thing, I can't help it, but I probably wouldn't care if I didn't like them paired in the first place. EDIT: wait a minute... I had forgotten that part, about the CONTEXT of their comment! They talked about Toph first, a surprise element, i.e. something that is Cannon! Toph was a guy at first, but now she is a girl who kicks butt (I love that line). Toph is one of my favorite characters. So... does the thing that follow resemble the Toph example? Zutara was not Cannon at first, but now... it is, and it's funny how the fans latched on when there was nothing to latch onto... They seem to find it funny that Zutarians were delusional and had foresight at the same time. Like, they are happy to deliver to this group that was probably going to go hungry if things had gone on as planned. So perhaps Zutarians were "right" but no "credit" is to be given to them (at least not early on in the Series) because back then it was not intentional. Something like that? Well... Hm... perhaps everyone can be happy then?
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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 20:15:19 GMT -5
It doesn't matter to me if they were break dancing while they were saying it. My point still stands. There was no reason to bring Zutara up at all. Except, maybe because of the Zutara filled trailer they knew they would be flashing around at Comic-con. A Zutara filled trailer that happens to show things that will happen at the end of the show. Which falls in line with the original question asked.
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Post by mahatista on Apr 27, 2008 20:18:15 GMT -5
"Whoah! You're jumping ahead!"
Jumping ahead to what, Bryan?
You can't take that quote as meaning Zutara hints never existed without taking out that sentence. It exists there and it tells me that at the very least, hints were planned. Zutarians just picked it up earlier than it was planned. Now don't cry, it doesn't mean they planned Zutara to happen. But it does mean they planned Zutara hints to happen.
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Post by textbender on Apr 27, 2008 20:25:45 GMT -5
Jumping ahead to what, Bryan? Exactly! And it's beginning to sound, too, as if Bryan was about to give it away "We knew about it..." and Michael changed the "it" into something weaker "We knew there would be some tension." Then Bryan does his double comment, on the one hand we're "jumping ahead," on the other hand "whatever." I'm beginning to agree with the Ninjas of evasion suddenly. They seem to be doing the dance together.
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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 20:28:59 GMT -5
I agree Mahatista. That jumping ahead line can't be explained away with "they were talking about the fandom." They cleverly started talking about the show by dropping the fandom line first.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 27, 2008 20:44:27 GMT -5
wow... when I read the last couple posts, I thought, "now this is a perfect example of jumping ahead"
seriously, remember that it was a completely informal inteview, with joking foing around...
humm... I really wont get into a linguistic argument with the last couple of posts...
It just feels like the classic example of ..."whatever, people will believe what they want to believe"
Ill return tomorrow, but those two interviews together seem to send a pretty dang clear message IMO, and no nitpicking on "jumping ahead" means changes the fact that it becomes more and more clear the larger context you look at it. (including the "mood" of the interview. "Oh, they're going to get together." (laughs) We were like, "Whoa! You guys are jumping ahead!" But, whatever...people see what they want to see."
... that seems to sum up the probability of anyone convincing you that it was clearly not in Zutara's fovor for cannon. "whatever...people see what they want to see."
again, dont forget to link the context of that they were talking about the fans here, and their suprise to their reaction, and what was actually in the show when they were talking about the "aang-katara romance"
well... im done for now. got abunch of papers to do tonight... night everybody.
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Post by mahatista on Apr 27, 2008 20:50:00 GMT -5
It just feels like the classic example of ..."whatever, people will believe what they want to believe" Back at ya. Irony aside, I've read these quotes and they just don't say what some people are demanding they say. 'People see what they want to see.' That's true. People also don't see what they don't want to see -- is also true.
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Post by deana on Apr 27, 2008 20:58:23 GMT -5
Like you are hinting at zenamin, picking and choosing parts of the interview will so not prove your point. Putting the interviews together is also the over analyzing that you are accusing us of.
My advice, don't be so overly confident, because if it goes the other way you are going to look pretty silly.
That DNA stuff means nothing in terms of Kataang becoming canon.
I just believe, humbly, in my 50% chance and everything I have seen so far (including that toon zone interview) tells me I still have that chance.
Good Night!
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Post by textbender on Apr 27, 2008 21:07:02 GMT -5
MDD: Yeah, Aang-Katara, that romance. Some stuff developed along the way, and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show, but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start.
I just looked at this quote again more carefully: "Some stuff developed along the way" this is clearly Zutara. "and we're glad some fans are more receptive to that element of the show" this is clearly we are glad some people are shipping Zutara. "but it was in the DNA of the thing from the start." I think "it" here refers to Aang-Katara romance. I think what they are saying is, Kataang WAS in the DNA from the START. However, something else developed along the way. It is there, and we are glad there are those who are more responsive to it than to Kataang. However, just to set the record straight, originally for us it was going to go Kataang, (even if now it will not any more?)
So maybe when they say "whatever" to Zutarians, then mean that they started seeing things when they were not yet there. They did end up developing, but it was not their original idea to go that way, just like it was not their original idea to make Toph's character a girl.
I need to retire, too. Good night!
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Post by mahatista on Apr 27, 2008 21:14:38 GMT -5
textbender: I don't really agree with your assessment on the meaning of that quote, but that just shows once again that people read things differently. We read it different ways and it doesn't negate Zutara. Others read it and demand that it mean what they want it to mean. It's really too bad. Especially because every interview and most commentary is candid and off-the-cuff so making those kinds of demands on them is pretty unfair.
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Post by textbender on Apr 27, 2008 21:24:51 GMT -5
"I don't really agree with your assessment on the meaning of that quote" Hmm... I'm a bit confused. Which part of which quote? I don't think I said it negates Zutara, on the contrary. Just I think it says Zutara wasn't initially part of Cannon. It developed along the way.
I just thought back about Zenjamin's joke about whether Aang is attractive or not and the "heat" of the scenes with him and Katara, and realized I was conceding something that was not in fact my original intention. The problem with the scenes lacking intensity for me is not so much one of looks (except where the age difference is so obvious it is bothersome) but the way they are staged, with Aang acting and looking silly and wrapped up in his own daydreams, and Katara kind of clueless about what he means. If Aang, with his looks, were cast acting differently, perhaps I could feel it. By "feeling" it I mean feel the romance as a spectator. I really felt the "heat" of the romance from the comedy The Office (I know, nothing like Avatar), and I feel no attraction for that guy. It was all about how believable it was, what they felt for each other, to the point that I could put myself in their shoes.
Had to come back and post this. Good night again...
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