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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 1:38:18 GMT -5
See, in order for that "Choose the good guy" lesson to be valid, Katara would need to be seriously torn in her feelings for Aang and a "bad boy" Zuko....who is a bad boy in the same sense that Jet was a good guy, Zuko's a good person who was on the wrong side of the war.
With Bryan's "Whatever...people see what they want to see" Statement, the only hints of Zutara are in people's imaginations, they were never intended to give the impression of a possible future romance between them.
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 1:53:47 GMT -5
Well, I don't think the lesson is intended for those girls who never saw Zutara as a possibility, but for those who did, whatever feelings Katara shows in Cannon. I am sure there are young girls out there who ship Zutara. But I do think they did intend to give the impression of a possible future romance between Katara and Zuko (one k; I hadn't paid attention before!!). I think that is what they are saying when they say they knew the potential romance was there, that there was some tension: but they are emphasizing potential. Zuko hurt his chances of having Katara when he attacked Aang in COD. He also hired the killer to go after them after that. At that point, he removed himself from the potential love circle of Katara. But it's obvious they'll become good friends. I think I'll go watch the finale trailer again...
EDIT: speaking of misspellings, I've been spelling Canon like a large piece of artillery...
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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 2:19:31 GMT -5
They compared a possible romance between Zuko and Katara to Momo and Appa. In other words, a six lb lemur and a ten ton flying bison. I think it is very reasonable to assume that Zutara is no where in the cards.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 2:45:18 GMT -5
I think that is what they are saying when they say they knew the potential romance was there actually, I personally think they were talking about the fandom there. in the whole rest of that zutara segment, they are just talking about the fans. in past interviews, they have said how they were not away of zutara(fandom) at first, but then became more informed of it(as was shown in the COD commentary).
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 2:50:31 GMT -5
DIMARTINO: And I never would have thought that the potential Katara/Zuko romance was going to be so ... you know, so big for people? Because honestly, that wasn't our intention from the start (laughs).
KONIETZKO: We knew about it...
DIMARTINO: We knew there would be some tension, but it wasn't like we were going to play that up too much, so it's cool to see people getting into that romance stuff.
"We knew about it... We knew there would be some tension." This isn't "nowhere on the cards" in the sense that there is absolutely zero nothing nada. I am not saying more than they are at this point. I agree Zutara won't happen, but in this interview at least they say there is "something", a glimpse of possibility. On the Season 1 DVD they told Zutarans to think about Appa and Momo, and maybe what they are doing now is being more tactful, but B&M themselves say they know there will be (or has been) "some tension." What do you think they meant by that expression? I think it is slightly more than Zuko is a guy and Katara is a girl, even if it is not a whole lot more (they are not going to "play it up too much").
EDIT: Zenajmin, just saw your post. I think they meant the "potential" was there even before the fans, but what they didn't realize was how big it was going to be. They had perhaps thought of it as equivalent to the way that Jet and Haru were "potential." Not realized potential, just a transitory possibility.
P.S. I just watched the Kataang kiss in the Invasion Part 1. I had only watched that episode once. I see it better now.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 2:56:11 GMT -5
humm... I hadnt seen that part about tension. my guess was they were either just trying to be more even handed/tactful. or they were talking about them getting some resistance from the zutaran fandom. "this right here is probably going to make about 50% of the fans verry mad at us"
... seem like M&B are almost fearful of zutarans sometimes... ... Aand now then went ahead and made you guys ninjas.
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Post by cybertron log on Apr 28, 2008 3:08:33 GMT -5
I just read everything after my last post, and now I don't know what to think! Looks like that, romance-wise, you just can't beat the conventions. There are so many convincing arguments for why Zutara won't happen, and they all just leave me scratching my head and wondering if I should bother with ATLA relationships at all. When you take into account what M&B meant to have happen as well as the original demographics they were aiming for, then the good guy who was always waiting will get his girl after all. What can you expect from a show aimed for 6-11 year olds? Forget personalities and the characters themselves - it's TPTB that's determining the outcome. A good role model for little kids is the guy who's never done anything exceptionally wrong, so shouldn't he be rewarded with the girl he's been after the entire length of the show? Sure it trivializes the girl (which sometimes makes me wish that nobody gets shipped, therefore screwing everyone over) but it's what an audience of impressionable little kiddies would want. It is THAT simple. And it makes me want to headwall. But at least I'll have hope...and fanfiction, Edit: Ninjas you say, Zen? *points at icon* I swear Snake-Eyes had nothing to do with it!
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 3:13:11 GMT -5
... seem like M&B are almost fearful of zutarans sometimes... ... Aand now then went ahead and made you guys ninjas. Oh, LOL the militant shippers... Come on... But it's true, they have probably realized Zutarans are a force to be reckoned with, so they no longer say things like Momo and Appa (what's wrong with that ship??!! there is proof for it in Tales of Ba Sing Se ). I don't know if whatever they give to Zutara in the end (some affection, mainly) will be a reaction to fans, or something they planned all along. I just rewatched the Invasion part 1, and Zuko's goodbye to Mai seems much more dramatic now. They have built this other romance quite a bit, especially with the Boiling Rock. I guess I'll need to watch it all again.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 3:16:14 GMT -5
no... thats rather weak IMO. you should take into account the demographic that it was aimed at, that shows the original intention.
But you should also pay attention to personality, compatibility, the story, ect... and thats why I personally ship kataang over zutara.
... but all of that stuff is for the "shipping debates" thread... this one was meant to be a little more specific on how clear M&B have been in what they have "publicly" said.
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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 4:07:27 GMT -5
I think you are confusing "bad blood" tension and "romantic" tension. If you remember that there is in fact bad blood between Katara and Zuko, then the statement makes perfect sense with their and gels with their past statements about Zutara.
All too often people confuse genuine antagonism with romantic attraction, especially between a male and female, which is how Zutara got started in the first place.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 4:13:11 GMT -5
meh, ive ignored the fact that katara and zuko currently hate eachother (except in the context of time left for development)
we already know they will become friends, but making the jump from hate to friendship does not increase the likelihood of making the jump form friendship to love.
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 6:29:04 GMT -5
"I think you are confusing "bad blood" tension and "romantic" tension."
I don't think so. We are talking about the interview. I am including comments within it.
DIMARTINO: ........ Because honestly, that wasn't our intention from the start (laughs). [that = romance between Zuko and Katara]
KONIETZKO: We knew about it... [it = romance between Zuko and Katara; "it" replaces whatever was mentioned earlier]
DIMARTINO: We knew there would be some tension [some tension here serves to limit what Bryan meant by "it" = i.e. romance, or rather, something a little less, "some [romantic] tension"; it is important to notice that "some [bad blood] tension" makes no sense here, given what precedes and what follows], but it wasn't like we were going to play that up too much [that = the romantic tension], so it's cool to see people getting into that romance stuff.
Obviously the "bad blood tension" was there from the start of the series, and I'd say they "played it up" plenty. I am sure you would agree there hasn't been "some" antagonism between Zuko and Katara, but loads of it, by the time he joined. They are talking about "romantic tension." Everyone "knows" of the bad blood tension. They wouldn't need to tell us that they "knew of it" as if it was some obscure detail, if it was the glaring antagonism that they were talking about. But they did need to tell us they also saw some "romantic tension," just not that much.
I really think you disagree with me on this because we are arguing about apples and oranges. I am stating what the authors are saying, and it looks like you are simply saying you don't buy any romantic tension between Zuko and Katara because you don't believe in antagonism turning to love. Which is not what I am saying anyway. And since I have conceded Kataang, I am not quite sure what you are trying to tell me. That there is nada tension there, but that contradicts what the authors themselves say.
I think the tension will come from Zuko being this older intense guy. It's bound to create some vibes. And it was partially there in the catacombs, when they were connecting for a moment. And there is the tension of former antagonism, too. Some of the antagonism wouldn't have to be so bad as a source of romantic tension, if it stopped there. Mainly the bending dueling with the two fighting on opposite sides, for two different armies. But Zuko attacking Aang right after bonding with Katara, and then later sending the assassin after them are horrid mistakes that make his pairing with the innocent Katara nearly impossible if not downright so.
Nevertheless, they will obviously be good friends, it seems like it from the trailer, even affectionate ones, so we need to remember that before insisting on Zuko being this evil dude that would terrorize Katara if they were emotionally involved... Scratch that. He probably would frighten her with his short temper and jealousy bouts if they were in anything more than a friendship. Which is one reason why Zutara doesn't work. But that does not rule out some romantic tension, even if it can't come to fruition for a number of reasons.
Katara is not prepared to deal with the Zuko type. Cool Mai is. She knows how to tone him down. Where do they talk about the Maiko ship in interviews?
I haven't pulled an all nighter in ages... but at least I was productive in the last two hours. Let's see how I function today...
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 28, 2008 6:41:04 GMT -5
I thought text was gonna call you on that psylum. ;D its best to embrace that zuko and katara will be friends. That way you can point out allot of things need to fall into place for the lover---> friend transfer to take place. and there is just not the time or reasoning to go though all that.
hey textbender, youve been off and on all night. do you have a big paper or something to do as well?
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Post by psylum on Apr 28, 2008 6:47:58 GMT -5
I know this is probibly going to become the thread's catchphrase, but you are very much overexamining their remark. I mean the context of his statement is that he didn't realize so many people would get behind it so passionately. Here is where Bryan talk about Mai and Zuko being great together. forums.avatarspirit.net/index.php?topic=91.msg469793#msg469793
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Post by textbender on Apr 28, 2008 6:54:53 GMT -5
Emm... Well, I had a lot of something to do, that I was supposed to do on Sunday! But if I say what it is, I'll reveal too much about my profession, age group, etc. (which already says a lot). Let's just say I'm a bit shy, because I'm not the regular school age Avatar fan. But I had something I needed to finish for today. And I haven't pulled an all nighter in ages. And for some reason I've become an Avatard.
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