Zutara Crystal Catacombs LXVII

[The Blue Chibi]

Hm, mine was a statement of opinion. I should take off the mod hat when I do that. (Why yes, it is shaped like a cone, why do you ask?) Mostly, I just wanted to point out that there are other opinions of the show, and stand up for it against what felt like an overwhelming tide of negativity. I'm not telling anyone to knock it off or anything, just taking a stand in favor of the show.

However, I can't argue with this statement:

mahatista said:

overall I feel it needs to be said that season 3 is not living up to the promise of the first two.

Sure, I feel it isn't, either. But that's a promise I made in my own head, and my demands have a bearing only on my own work. I can be pleasantly surprised by a good show popping up where there was a vacuum before, and I can hope that someone will take that torch and run with it, so that Avatar is closer to the industry standard. But I do feel that it is unfair to expect the show to meet my standards, especially when I don't even know what goes on in viacom boardrooms.

A discussion on craft, I would love ~ maybe we could take it to another thread. There are several other people at DH I can think of who might be interested in participating in such a conversation as well. And as for organic storytelling, I favor it myself, although with somewhat of a conscious, deliberate polish ~ it seems like the best and most solid works have been made that way. Maybe I'll change my mind as I get older.

But I have never once in my whole entire life seen you use hyperbole.

XD

[=Dr. Flabortast=]

Yiceman's theory is he hopes they are putting all the filler early because season 3 kickstarts on 310-> onwards. It's like season 2 didn't kickstart until Appa was bison-napped. It's a bit like season 1 where they had the goal of going to the North Pole but they are doing stuff along the way...

[stinkypinky]

firelordzuko said:

Yiceman's theory is he hopes they are putting all the filler early because season 3 kickstarts on 310-> onwards. It's like season 2 didn't kickstart until Appa was bison-napped. It's a bit like season 1 where they had the goal of going to the North Pole but they are doing stuff along the way...

But this is the last season the season that M&B stated was supposed to be a darker season. There shouldn't even be fillers, aside from 3 episodes so far it's just, backplaying what we already knew from season 1 and 2 about the characters. We don't need a refresher that Katara breaks laws for great justice, we don't need to know that Toph has insecurities, or Aang thinks he doesn't need people to fight Ozai, or Zuko being emo(we've had enough of his stupid emo) we've been through this already. Pick up the season.

[mahatista]

@chibi: I would love a thread on craft. I think a college course could be created around these three seasons. Seriously. The use of archtypes, the building and completion of a story over sixty episodes. It's exactly the kind of example courses are built around.

I guess yesterday I just realized how I'm not necessarily looking that forward to this week's episode and it made me sad so I wanted to commiserate. And working on that fic with my aunt, along with my current course focus has me analyzing every little thing I watch.

The mod hats -- I actually pictured them more Dai Li - ish. Round with a little steeple in the middle.

But you should take off your hat more often anyway -- the better to show your Zutara hair!

[Kohana]

stinkypinky said:

firelordzuko said:

Yiceman's theory is he hopes they are putting all the filler early because season 3 kickstarts on 310-> onwards. It's like season 2 didn't kickstart until Appa was bison-napped. It's a bit like season 1 where they had the goal of going to the North Pole but they are doing stuff along the way...

But this is the last season the season that M&B stated was supposed to be a darker season. There shouldn't even be fillers, aside from 3 episodes so far it's just, backplaying what we already knew from season 1 and 2 about the characters. We don't need a refresher that Katara breaks laws for great justice, we don't need to know that Toph has insecurities, or Aang thinks he doesn't need people to fight Ozai, or Zuko being emo(we've had enough of his stupid emo) we've been through this already. Pick up the season.

I agree, they say that they're using fillers for character development, but I haven't seen much character development so far. It's basically characteristics we already knew about everyone.



Oh and another thing, I was a bit bored this afternoon, so I updated the Zutara list in my MS Word. Alphabetising everything and adding some more famous fanfiction. If you guys want me too, I can copy and paste it. Just asking permission first. ^_^

[The Blue Chibi]

Actually, SP, while I respect what you have to say, I did need to see those things. Maybe it's because I have the mentality of someone closer to the target demographic, or maybe it's because I prefer to write to that demographic.

Whatever the case, there are several problems I have with whitewashing seasons as "filler:" first, any show you watch will have something someone feels free to dismiss. It's like a buffet ~ take what you like, leave the rest. But that doesn't help, I know, when you're hungry for more.

So, perhaps we should wait until the series' end before we start sorting out and analyzing what was significant to the plot and what was not. We won't really know for sure until then.

And finally, I like what we're being presented. Crucial or not, it's what we're being shown, and there is a message to be had in it. What else is there in the show besides what they decide to show us? I trust the creative team's direction, and fanart/fic is free to pick up the rest of the tantalizingly delicious storylines that had to be dropped. Besides, I'm an "enjoy the journey" kind of person. ^.^

maha, ew, what a hat. >.< Actually, mine would be a floppy purple velvet beret. I think. Ask me tomorrow ~ I am suddenly favoring a tall green felted trilby. XD

And a college course on analyzing Avatar, huh? *rubs hands wickedly*

[luthien]

Hey folks, just wanted to touch a bit on the disappointment about Season 3 so far - I completely understand. Now I'm not saying that Avatar has gone down the tubes or anything, but it kind of feels like the first 9 episodes of the season are basically the narrative equivalent of twiddling your thumbs until you get to the good part. But it didn't have to be that way, there could have been a real chance to build a richer storyline, and keep the current flow going. And I'm not just saying this as a Zutarian, but as a fan of the show in general. Some things they could have done:

*Give Aang more angst. Now I'm not saying that he has to be like he was in "The Awakening." And I love Aang happy go lucky - that's who he is. But come on, he died! I would think it would take more than just a pep talk to break him out of some of the deeper implications of what happened. That's got to affect you on a psychological level. I mean, c'mon - every time the kid has his shirt off we see the visual reminder of what happened. So how come it seems the actual event is forgotten? At least they should have had Aang be cautious - seeing him throw caution to the wind in "The Beach" was crazy.

*Give Katara some self-doubt. She's awesome, it's true, but she's almost *too* awesome, even with her flaws. But she's the only one of the GAang who actually saw what happened to Aang. She darn-near lost him, save for the Spirit Water. But now that it's gone, what if something else happens? Wouldn't Katara be worried, or at least express some regret at not spending more time with Yugoda to learn more about her critically-needed healing abilities?

*Give Toph something to do! I mean, I liked "The Runaway," but outside of that, Toph's been relegated to comic relief. I *do* feel we're getting more of her relationship with Katara and Sokka, but sometimes in this show it feels as if Toph and Aang are existing in separate universes. I'd like to see at least one one-on-one moment between them - we haven't really seen that since "Bitter Work."

*Give Zuko something to do, too! I'm as big a Zuko fangirl as you'll ever find, but right now he's bugging the heck out of me. He's in full-on mope mode, and it's getting really old, really quickly. I can almost give you a synopsis of what he does every episode: complain, brood, yell at someone, kiss Mai, brood some more. That's all he ever does. Why not show more of his life in the Fire Nation? Hey, he's back in a nation of Firebenders right now! Wouldn't it make sense that he retains a master and tries to learn more advanced Firebending moves? Shouldn't he at least be training? We've seen him Firebend a total of twice - once when he kills the stool in the prison, and when he makes the campfire flare up. I want to see more. Perhaps him working out his frustrations by practicing. In Season 1, Zuko would Firebend out on the deck of the ship to blow off steam. Now he just flops down on his big flouncy couch and pouts. Ugh.

*More Ozai, please! Ok, so we've already had the big face reveal, so that's out of the way - why not show more of him? I want to see more of how he interacts with his children - I mean, we've never really even seen how he and Azula act in a room together. Why not give us an interesting scene of say, dinner in the Fire Nation royal palace, where we see Azula and Zuko seated across from each other, with Ozai at the head of the table? Wouldn't it be great if there was a funny/tense scene of "pass the salt" becoming psychological warfare between the Fire Nation royal siblings? Where are the interactions?

*Uh, Suki? Remember her? Not having Sokka say anything - not one dang thing - is out of character for him. This is the guy who still feels guilty about not protecting Yue. Surely he realizes that seeing Azula in Suki's gear is not a good thing? We should get a little bit of his concern out in the open. "Sokka's Master" would have been the best opportunity to do this. We see Sokka feeling inadequate because he lacks bending skills. But to add to that, perhaps he also wants to learn more because he feels he's not in a position to fully protect his loved ones like he should? That his need to learn the way of the sword is at least partially fueled over his concern for Suki? Or for pity's sake, just to hear he's worried would be something!

*Good characterization, or none at all. I don't want Azula humanized if it's just going to be silly. "The Beach" wasn't a total loss, but maybe Azula revealing a bit why she's obsessed with perfection would have been eye-opening. I know she's just plain crazy, but it would be interesting if part of the reason she needs to be perfect is because she knows any flaws at all are signs of weakness. She's seen what happened to Iroh, and Zuko - maybe there's a fear, deep down, that it will happen to her, too? And give the characters real motivations - the explanations for Ty Lee's and Mai's personalities in "The Beach" felt tacked-on and hollow.

Er... anyway, Zutara! Yes! I've found some more awesome art. From xcgirl08:



And from numina namine:



Enjoy!

[The Blue Chibi]

Lu, I would love to see all of those scenes (especially the "pass the salt" one! XD ), but even if we don't... I still expect to enjoy the show. There's a place for writing out all of our own stories, and between me and my TV screen isn't it. That would kill my enjoyment of whatever does happen. It's like when I go to dinner at a friend's house; I'm not going to hold any expectations about what I might be served; I'm just going to decide in advance that I'll like it.

Now, that's not to say the season is perfect. Just that it's really good. One of the things, then, that I'd want to discuss in that Avatar U./Storywriting 101 thread would be what happens to a story once it's out of the creator's hands. It's possible that Mike & Bryan are just as disgusted as we. Probably not, since they're used to working in the industry, but it is a question they get asked: "How closely does the story resemble your original vision?" Bryan's last answer in that Burning Earth article was that it was pretty close. Well and good, but that still means some things were changed.

Since it's a team effort, some things have to be compromised. Still, even Avatar at its worst is far, far better than many other things out there. I feel we're being too demanding... and yet, you're right, I would like to see more good, solid quality. Maybe we could be more demanding of the suits in the executive boardroom, then?

[psylum]

The number one source of all dissapointments in works of fiction: Fandom.

Allow me to give an example. In Harry Potter Jo put much emphesis on Harry's eyes. Basically anyone that knew his mother commented on how his eyes were the same as his mother's. The HP fandom burned through hundreds of pages going over what this means and why her eyes were important, and in the end it was something very simple and obvious. This greatly dissapointed many portions of the HP fandom because they spent so much time speculating on the secret awesome eye powers of Harry's eyes, that the truth was a serious let down.

This same thing is happening here, I'm seeing it many places. Let me take Luthien's list for example.

Aang: As much as you may like it to be, that kind of angst is not a part of Aang's character, it's true in real life that some people don't let little things like being clinically dead for a minute or so keep them from enjoying life, Aang's mind has a very high resistence to angst and it's what makes him awesome.

Katara: I know this is the Zutara room, but it needs to be made very clear. Katara has more self-doubt than any other character here, Aang is what lets her get over her insecurities. In her mind, Aang needs her to be strong, so she is, take Aang out of the picture and all the insecurities and self-doubts rise to the surface for the world to see.

Toph: There's really not a lot they can do with Toph. She's awesome and many people find her more interesting than any other character, but yeah, there's only so much that can be done with her.

Sokka: Some people may find it cheap, but the truth is I don't think Sokka has connected Azula and co. impersonating Kyoshi Warriors as Suki being in danger. This is admitedly my weakest statement because I myself am a bit dissapointed in the lack of mentioning Suki.

[mahatista]

luthien: Excellent post!! *karma* I think all of those things would have been actually fairly simple to put in. Some people say there's 'no time' for all this stuff, but really it only takes a second or two. And like I was saying, it's just organic. The Suki thing really bothers me. Nobody's the least bit worried. The Iroh thing really, REEEEEEAAAAALLLLLYYYY bothers me. That they haven't even thought about the man who sacrificed himself for them. Not even "I hope he's okay." "I wish we could do something for him." Nothing. "Thanks for the sacrifice -- I'll probably forget you now -- don't take it personally," is pretty much what we've got.

Also, the art! It's so beautiful!

That's one of the things that I so love about Zutara. There isn't another couple that looks so good together (unless Haru were to be the one embracing Katara -- that would be *sigh*). That's why I think they won't ever show them in the same space again. Even to fight. They accidentally made a couple that belongs together, but intended them for others. Better keep them apart is all I can say. It's pretty undeniable once you see them on screen that Zutara has the aesthetics of win.

[Ana]

lunachaos said:

The only thing that's bad about Maiko is the way it came to be. And the way it's continuing. There's nothing to it besides corny lines and kisses every second.

No, it’s not. The writing of how Maiko came to be wasn’t very good (but that’s only because they didn’t include it in the show..) but by their second interaction we already see foreshadowing of future plot points.

mahatista said:

They accidentally made a couple that belongs together, but intended them for others. Better keep them apart is all I can say. It's pretty undeniable once you see them on screen that Zutara has the aesthetics of win.

Watch me.

Seriously though, this whole shipping thing is entirely subjective. I can only see Zuko and Katara being friends (I’ve wanted platonic!Zutara fic for ages ) but you all obviously see something more. Zuko and Katara have "dynamic relationship" (to quote the creators' DVD commentary from the S2 finale) but romantic chemistry is in the eye of the beholder.

[Zutara7]

M&B said Zuko and Katara have a dynamic relationship?

In what context?

[Kohana]

Nobody has answered my post. ;_;


luthien: Oh, those are some great artworks you've find. I particularly love the top one.

@ana: I'm curious too in what context they mean "dynamic relationship".

And I agree that shipping is all subjective. One sees this from an interaction, the other reads that from it. That's what I like about it; to hear other shippers their opinions.

[Ana]

utsukushiikohana said:

@ana: I'm curious too in what context they mean "dynamic relationship".

Well, earlier they talked about how they liked making Iroh interact with the Gaang because didn’t happen much and was interesting when it did. The cave scene came up and they basically said they liked that interaction for the same reasons.

[luthien]

^^^I want to see more of that, too. I mean, of course I'm a romantic Zutarian through and through, but I fully and strongly support Friendship!Zutara as well. I would like to see them interact more, just because they in and of themselves are dynamic characters, and it's interesting to see the kind of response each elicits from the other. 'Course, I've also always said that seeing Toph and Zuko interact is at the top of my wishlist, so I hope at least we get some of that (please?). I so want to see those two interact!