tg
FN Toph
The mysterious lurker of Musogato
Posts: 1,684
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Post by tg on Oct 24, 2007 12:05:26 GMT -5
I voted other, because despise was not near enough strong of a word. This episode cast me into depression, sending my life into a bleak pit of misery and choas. THIS EPISODE WAS DESPICABLY AWFULLY GROTESQUELY HORRIBLE!!!!! Few, got that out. Why do I hate it? So moany reasons! It was full of crappy teenage drama, dumb jokes, soap opera emotions and emotional outbursts, and everyone seemed out of character, except the old ladies. This show really seemed like more of a soap opera than avatar. Horrible. Actually, that's what I found so amusing about this episode. It's not because I like the OOCness of it, the teenage drama, the dumb jokes, and even those soap opera emotional outbreaks. It's because I feel that all these OOC craze scenes are making fun of the actual OOC that you would find other shows that show these kind of stuff intentionally. >_> As for my opinion of the episode, as I said in the non-spoiler review, I enjoy for what it is. I can't really love it but I can't dislike it either. It shows how messed up the royal family can be...except for Zuko who is the good one (obviously). He only has anger problems for a good reason. Everyone else's reasons are more for their own gain. Ty Lee, circus. Azula, enjoys being a monster so she can be easily dominant but doesn't know how to deal with other people that well. She also doesn't know a difference between right and wrong. Mai, refuses to express herself and prefers to be dull. At least, Zuko shouts his anger and gets it out of his system. I wish the Aang gang scenes were longer but since they are only the B-group of the episode, I understand the time constraint of fitting them in. Although, if Avatar started off with 26 episodes per season, I bet there will be more scenes that take their time. Plotting and planning 20 episodes isn't easy to squeeze everything in so I give kudos to M&B for trying their best. ^___^
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 24, 2007 17:34:47 GMT -5
You see, I had absolutely no problem with Azula's apparent "OOC"-ness in this episode. Was she pure evil in Season 2? I suppose you can say that, since it was obvious from the way she acted towards Zuko, Iroh, Suki, the Gaang, etc....who were all her enemies. OF COURSE she's going to try to kill or disarm or maim her enemies. But then, in this episode, she had no enemies per se, none serious anyway. She had no reason to act all evil, because nothing can be accomplish through it. As far as I can see, Azula is not evil. She was just warped from childhood to be the best at anything that comes her way and to achieve ANY goal set out for her, no matter what stands in her way. It's the determination. This episode didn't really warrent any of that, ergo, we see a different, slightly more relaxed version of Azula. ... What about Ty Lee?! Did you forget that Azula had the circus leader set the safety net beneath Ty Lee on fire or that Azula ordered that all the dangerous animals be released while Ty Lee was suspended over a painful death? Her goal: get Ty Lee on her team. And as I said, when you give this girl a goal, she will accomplish it no matter WHAT stands in her way.
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sukichan
Iroh
Long live, Kataang!!
Posts: 191
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Post by sukichan on Oct 24, 2007 20:04:42 GMT -5
^^
And without any thought to how achieving said goal will affect other people's emotions/safety/whathaveyou. I'd call that pretty evil. ;-)
I honestly couldn't stand this episode. My boyfriend and I spent half an hour watching it and waiting for it to raise itself to normal Avatar standards, but by the time it was over, we just looked at each other like... "WTF, mate?" Azula was dropping OOC like nuts, Maiko was being shoved down our throats like it was going out of style, and Zuko's hair is way too long. The campfire scene was forced, and I doubt that any of it, with the possible exception of Zuko's confession, will have any bearings on the future of the plot.
I also think that it's unfair to the writers to use the show's 23-minute length as an excuse for the rushed "character development" in this episode. They've done a great job of using the time wisely in the past. We learned loads, for instance, about Aang AND Zuko in "The Storm," but it never once felt forced.
WARNING: SLIGHTLY OT RANT AHEAD!
And why does every character need to be fully developed? It wastes precious airtime, and it takes away from the development of more important characters. It's quality vs. quantity. The more developed characters we have, considering the limited amount of time the writers have to tell the story, the more shallow that development is going to be. Do we really *need* to know why Ty Lee ran off and joined the circus when our friends in the gAang are clearly in danger, or when Iroh still needs to find a way out of prison? I love Ty Lee as much as the next person, but she's pretty clearly a secondary character. The overall plot of the show would not be changed if she were removed from the picture. The same goes for Mai.
And I'm also going to put this out there: Suddenly and inexplicably humanizing Azula and setting her up for the possibility of redemption is going to take away from all of Zuko's two-season's-worth of development. Most of Zuko's family is really messed up. If too many relatives wise up and change their evil ways, it won't make Zuko's decision to become good as impressive. Softening Azula will take away from the impact of Zuko's redemption. I really think that she needs to stay heartless and cold to serve as a contrast for Zuko.
PS-- Maiko REALLY annoys me. I ship Kataang, but I'd take Zutara over Maiko any day. The way it's being handled is painful.
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Post by demonofthewest on Oct 24, 2007 23:56:58 GMT -5
Well, a lot of fans were wondering, quite loudly, "WHY IS MAI SO GLOOMY IT MAKES NO SENSE I HATE MAI!!!" The creators addressed why. Mai was raised to never express her feelings or opinions, and so she internalized all of her thoughts and became very withdrawn. Even though this is a perfectly logical answer, fans are still unhappy with it. Some even seem unhappy that the issue was addressed at all. It's like the creators can't win.
And Azula was acting OOC only because she was in a situation she had never experienced before. For the first time in her life, she wasn't Princess Azula. She was just some random girl. And so she was able to act in ways that she could never have before, which led to the OOC. Since Azula seemed rather displeased with the experience, I doubt we'll ever see it again.
And don't worry, Azula is still an antagonist, and I highly doubt she's planning on switching sides. However, giving us a deeper insight into Azula's emotions and thoughts gives us a better understanding of the character and makes her a more dimensional character. One dimensional villains are boring! The villains should have some sympathy. That's why Zuko is such a great character.
And as far as unnecessary characters go, Toph has become so unessential to the show that you could take her out for the rest of the season and it wouldn't even matter.
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sukichan
Iroh
Long live, Kataang!!
Posts: 191
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Post by sukichan on Oct 25, 2007 2:22:18 GMT -5
One dimensional villains are boring! The villains should have some sympathy. That's why Zuko is such a great character. And that's why we have Zuko in the first place! I do agree that one dimensional villains are boring, but too many sympathetic villains in one place can also be boring, simply because it gets repetitive. And while I'd love to know what makes Azula "tick," this didn't really do anything to show why she is what she is (aside from her one footnote of a comment about Ursa). It just threw her into a new, and rather random context for no apparent reason. We might as well have thrown her into a My Little Pony movie.**** I'd also like to suggest that multi-dimensional doesn't necessarily equal sympathetic. Harry Potter's Voldemort, for instance, was multidimensional. He had his weaknesses. He was terrified of death. He had daddy issues. Yet because of his choices, he became a monster with only a sliver of a soul... and he was proud of it. I can understand why he's the way he is, but even I have a hard time feeling pity for him, and I consider myself to be a fairly understanding person. (I hope I'm not flattering myself!! ) That's not my point. I know we haven't seen her play much of a role this season, but if you remove her from the entire show, the plot would change dramatically. Her development was needed because of the impact she had on the overall story. Ty Lee and Mai have done nothing to move the plot along, and the story itself wouldn't change too much without them. I can understand why people wanted to know why they were the way they were, but did we really need to take time from the show itself to explain their back stories? Especially when that explanation was rushed, sloppy, and more than slightly reminiscent of a soap opera? Avatar isn't confined *just* to the television. After all, we had cannon information coming from Escape from the Spirit World... an *online game.* "Heroes" has made fantastic use of the various story-telling mediums that are open to them. They have entire pages of content which serve to enhance the storyline, but which don't necessarily change or move it along. The Avatar team could easily have taken a cue from "Heroes" and put the information up somewhere else for curious fans. ****On second thought... Azula in a My Little Pony movie would be rather amusing.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 25, 2007 9:00:00 GMT -5
OK...we get it...Azula need to be show one emoton that 24/7 and that your not welling to give up on a character. plus plot is imporant 24/7 because that how our lives run on...plots and not filliers. it funny that you want on a mulit-media system with so much arguments about turbonick or magazine.
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Post by KyoshiWarrior on Oct 25, 2007 17:26:42 GMT -5
Loved it to the extreme! It's my favorite episode now!
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 25, 2007 20:08:17 GMT -5
The best episode of the entire show so far.
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Post by demonofthewest on Oct 26, 2007 0:08:18 GMT -5
You don't necessarily have to sympathize with the villains, but there should be, at the very least, a reason why you could sympathize with villains. That's why I never really cared for Zhao. Aside from the fact that he never did anything successfully, he really had almost no character development. All we knew was that he was ambitious and that he had a bad temper.
If you think about the "villains" of modern history, none of them are completely evil. Yeah, the dictators of the 20th century did some pretty terrible stuff, but they were also very complex, multi dimensional people. The plain truth is, no one is completely evil. The writers aren't trying to get you to side with Azula, but to understand her a little better.
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Post by bloodbender on Oct 26, 2007 6:52:06 GMT -5
I loved it but I didn't really see a need for Aang and company to make an appearance in this episode. But thats probably just me...
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 26, 2007 19:03:30 GMT -5
Hail JesusOfTheWest! Yes, I agree completely and have been waiting to say the same thing for a while now.
For me, no one in Avatar is evil. In fact, to take it a step further, there is no such thing as "evil" in the Avatar world, just people who fight each other for their own motivations. Thanks to the Avastaff, supposed villains are given actual reasons for acting against the protagonists, and that's pretty rare in cartoons. Just another reason why Avatar is better than all the rest.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 26, 2007 19:08:00 GMT -5
I wonder with the future already brought from the UK...dose this episode make the impact because again most of the argument from this is that it didn't further the plot but I agree with JOTW and your statement as well pg15
Just put in everyday context like relationship with even today country like the US and Venezuela and how each country tries to put in context between good and evil.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 26, 2007 19:39:16 GMT -5
Yeah, putting things like that makes it so much easier to fool the public into thinking that the world is black and white; that our morals are right, while their's are wrong. It's also a much easier concept to grasp for the more mentally-challenged world leaders.
Not naming names...
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Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Firework on Oct 26, 2007 20:40:31 GMT -5
I think this episode would have been much more likable had these revelations been foreshadowed. Like if we saw Mai's mother scold her for chasing after a boy with a turban and throwing pointy objects at him: "How unlady like- shame on you Mai. It's a good thing only these red shirt soldiers were here to see your unlady like behavior!" Or something like that, because I thought Mai's mother was a nice woman who chided Mai's whining and wanted her to have an optimistic outlook on her good fortune, not a woman who was so blind both literally and metaphorically she reduced her shy daughter to a dour young woman who only finds joy when she is throwing sharp, pointy, metal objects at others. Or if Mai appeared more often it might make her story more believable... or at least possibly make her more likable.
Ty Lee- especially her; if we were to assume that Ty Lee is in fact a septuplet then that definitely should've been foreshadowed. Why weren't her sisters invited to the palace? You'd think that all of the girls would get to go- if my understanding of royal etiquette is correct then the other sisters should have been invited out of politeness.
If some sort of sign of such past treatment was given,-even if only once- it would make their character's more believable. Info dumps are bad.
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Post by unstable on Oct 26, 2007 20:45:46 GMT -5
I voted "disliked"...although any half-hour watching a new episode of Avatar is still one of my favorite things of all time.
I didn't feel that this episode "The Beach" really progressed the story much or at all.
I know there are some people who love Azula and want to see more of the storyline focus on her and her minions, but she is really a minor character in the series.
We didn't need Prince Zuko to admit to Azula and her sidekicks that he was unhappy and confused...he already said that to Iroh in past episodes and has displayed that for quite a long time. Also, I don't feel that we needed to know much history about Mai and Chai Li or whatever her name is...it was all really just wasted time.
Who knows though, the writers for Avatar are geniuses, there may still be a point to "THE BEACH" yet. I just thought it was more of a filler episode, lots of seemingly useless information, didn't take the story anywhere.
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