sukichan
Iroh
Long live, Kataang!!
Posts: 191
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Post by sukichan on Oct 27, 2007 2:33:38 GMT -5
You don't necessarily have to sympathize with the villains, but there should be, at the very least, a reason why you could sympathize with villains. That's why I never really cared for Zhao. Aside from the fact that he never did anything successfully, he really had almost no character development. All we knew was that he was ambitious and that he had a bad temper. If you think about the "villains" of modern history, none of them are completely evil. Yeah, the dictators of the 20th century did some pretty terrible stuff, but they were also very complex, multi dimensional people. The plain truth is, no one is completely evil. The writers aren't trying to get you to side with Azula, but to understand her a little better. Touchee! Fair enough, JotW. But I still got the feeling that they WERE trying to get us to side with her a little more by showing her slightly softer side. Like I said... I'd like to see her developed. I just think that this might not have been the best way of doing it. Is it truly well done development if so many people are confusing it with a jumble of OOC moments?
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Post by luthien on Oct 27, 2007 4:40:26 GMT -5
Sadly, not a fan of this episode. I've been on vacation for a week and I'm in major catch-up mode, so I've had the opportunity to compare "The Beach" side-by-side with "The Avatar and the Firelord," and it seems like Avatar's Season 3 split-personality disorder continues. I think "The Headband," "Sokka's Master," and "The Avatar and the Firelord" rank among the best episodes in the series - truly - but it seems like the alternate episodes are kind of middling, and covering much of the same ground we've seen before. It almost seems like we're just treading water until we hit the Day of Black Sun. I'm starting to worry that the second half of the season will be rushed beyond belief because of all the time we're wasting now. I mean, there are a lot of big issues yet on the table: Where's Suki? Can Aang even access the Avatar State anymore? What about his issues with the Guru and the chakras? I understand the GAang's half of this tale was initially supposed to be the A plot, and it shows. I thought the actual introduction of Combustion Man to the GAang should have been given more time, instead of watching "Laguna Beach: Fire Nation Style." Don't get me wrong, the Fire Nation humor was great. But once the Fire Nation kids hit the campfire, the whole thing went off the rails. Was I actually supposed to feel sorry for any of them? By the end of their campfire revelations, I felt like telling Aang to take every single one of them out - including Zuko, whom I love - then handing over the throne to Iroh, with a request that he name Toph his heir. Seriously, it was that annoying. [warning: extreme cynicism mode - I apologize, usually I'm not like this!] Boo-hoo, so you weren't doted upon in your childhood, and had to compete for attention with your siblings. Wait, your mom and dad were strict? Aww, and mom actually said something that hurt your feelings! Cry me a freakin' river. Maybe it's because I'm more than a decade removed from my teen years, but it was like watching the Avatar version of "Laguna Beach," or anything with Paris and Nicole, where filthy rich kids sit around and whine about how bad they have it, then trash a party. All it needed for them to top it off was to be drunk out of their minds, or do blow off a trashcan. It was an exercise in self-indulgence, and I didn't feel like any of the characters were developed. If anything, I hated them more afterwards. And the trashing of the guy's house? Was I supposed to find that funny? Because it ticked me off more than anything else. I had such high hopes that the characters - Mai and Ty Lee especially - had more to them than that, but nope, apparently not. Sorry, but it's hard to feel sorry for kids with relatively trivial problems when you realize they all had a hand in enslaving an entire city's worth of people and killing a 12 year old boy. I'm fresh out of caring for them.
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Post by dragonflly on Oct 27, 2007 23:15:59 GMT -5
^^I've said time and time again that it was gonna be rushed. Why are they wasting all this time on suposed character development on characters that have NO impact on the storyline really? Why are still taking time to help every Tom, twig, and Harry along the way? They have an invasion to prepare for, Aang still has training, and Zuko needs to get his head out of his butt. It's all gonna be rushed at the end and we're all gonna be left dazed, heads spinning going what just happened. I'm not liking this aspect of the season at all. I don't like stories that are rushed through. Come on M&B, where's all the action promised, all the new villians? Show us already!!!
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 27, 2007 23:50:21 GMT -5
And how do you know these characters won't have an impact on the storyline? Azula obviously will; the fact that Maiko exists makes Mai pretty important, and Ty Lee...well, I'm sure something's gonna come up. That, or they "waste" a minute of an episode explaining her history, big deal.
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Post by luthien on Oct 28, 2007 0:04:21 GMT -5
I'm not saying I didn't want to know their histories, it's just - it could have been handled in a much better way. For them to all suddenly have an attack of verbal diarrhea at the end of the episode was unsatisfying, at least to me. One of Avatar's strengths is when it's subtle, and this was as about as subtle as a gong, two anvils, and a herd of elephants marching through a glass shop.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Oct 28, 2007 1:32:02 GMT -5
Teenagers are never subtle. Trust me, I am one.
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Post by luthien on Oct 28, 2007 1:39:16 GMT -5
I know, I've been there - and actually made it out the other end halfway ok (well, depending on who you talk to, but don't trust those folk, they don't know what they're talking about).
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Post by loverboy12 on Oct 28, 2007 7:09:19 GMT -5
Episode made Ty Lee my 2nd favorite after Mai, and Mai well she was cool already so nothing new there. Mai's not shakespeare people, just Mai.
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masterpakku
Haru
Open the chakras Katara Fanboy
Posts: 321
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Post by masterpakku on Oct 28, 2007 17:12:11 GMT -5
I liked it but it doesn't even compare to this weeks Avatar and the Fire Lord
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sukichan
Iroh
Long live, Kataang!!
Posts: 191
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Post by sukichan on Oct 28, 2007 17:26:23 GMT -5
And how do you know these characters won't have an impact on the storyline? Azula obviously will; the fact that Maiko exists makes Mai pretty important, and Ty Lee...well, I'm sure something's gonna come up. That, or they "waste" a minute of an episode explaining her history, big deal. In all fairness, pg15, I don't know whether or not the things revealed in The Beach will have any impact on the story later on. In fact, one of the things I love about Avatar is the fact that everything is connected. But I'm willing to bet that it won't. As I understand it, character development serves to change and mature a character. Judging from Azula's attitude in The Avatar and the Fire Lord, her experiences on Ember Island didn't change her outlook at all. Last season, it looked like they were setting Ty Lee and Mai up to rebel against Azula. Mai refused to follow Azula's orders to pursue the gAang during "The Drill," and Ty Lee didn't look too terribly happy about Azula's behavior during her circus performance*. Now they're pouring their hearts out to her and bonding with her? That seems like a step backwards to me. And the party trashing episode implies that none of the evening's events changed them... for better or for worse. To continue luthien's verbal diahrea analogy, it was like their emotional laxatives had done their job and they could go back to business as usual. *Although that episode did make Ty Lee's break down a little more believable. She can put on a happy face no matter what the circumstances, but the pressure of being the optimist was bound to get to her sooner or later. I suppose there was a LITTLE foreshadowing before The Beach, but I won't eat my words just yet!
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 28, 2007 17:44:41 GMT -5
I just think that that not what people expect and just wrap there anger on something...I don't understand how something can be "rushed" I mean they had one year and extra more to make it "perfect"
Is "rushed" some justifiable reason for us to say it was "bad"
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Post by luthien on Oct 28, 2007 17:52:41 GMT -5
Even if they had a year to develop this episode, "rushed" still fits. I'm talking about rushed in the context of the episode itself, and this was rushed. We get virtually nothing of Mai and Ty Lee in Season 2 - even though they appeared in several episodes - then we get a verbal info dump in the last 5 minutes of "The Beach." I'm just saying the execution and explanations could have been done better. As it was, it was sloppy at best.
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sukichan
Iroh
Long live, Kataang!!
Posts: 191
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Post by sukichan on Oct 28, 2007 17:53:40 GMT -5
I think that something being bad is a justifiable reason for us to say that it was bad. ;D
*Is shot*
Is it so horrible that some of us are disappointed in this, though? With the high quality we've come to expect from Avatar, shouldn't we be entitled to voice some displeasure when the standards aren't kept?
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Oct 28, 2007 18:20:01 GMT -5
I'm not saying you can't I just didn't know in what terms the word "rush" was define.
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Post by luthien on Oct 28, 2007 18:24:30 GMT -5
^^^That's a legitimate question. In my eyes, "rushed" basically means that all the information was revealed in a hurried manner, with basically little time afterward to process what happened. It's just kind of a gut feeling, I suppose. I'm sure not everyone felt this way, but that's just the way it struck me.
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