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Post by alternatecoppa on May 7, 2007 9:08:10 GMT -5
Okay... All you folks who liked this flick... You're the same people who liked that steaming pile of poo called "Batman Forever" just because it starred Jim Carry aren't you? XD I'm kidding! I'm kidding! Put down your guns! Rami's my homeboy! I'm down with Bruce! Truthfully, if you liked it, that's cool. Movies, music, any art is wholly subjective. So don't kill me for not liking it. IMHO, had this been the only Spiderman movie I could understand the glowing praise. It wasn't BAD. But compaired to the far better previous installments, I feel it fell short. Some personal annoyances: Thanks for taking me on Sandman's journey to nowheresville. I really enjoy caring for a character and their motivation only to never have it even hinted at being resolved. What's gonna happen to his daughter? Is Spiderman's forgivness giving him permission to rob banks to buy her medicine? What now? -Don't give me the "that's for the next movie" excuse. The other films managed to wrap up their villian's story arcs in satisfing ways. Why the heck is Gwen Stacy and her father at Harry's funeral? How did they know him? Is she there to support Peter? After the way emo-peter used her you wouldn't think so. No, I chalk that one up to an attempt at giving last-second closure to her paper-thin character. Maybe I shouldn't laugh... After all she just happened to be in Peter's science class and just happened to be modeling in the building that was hit by a crane so perhaps she just happened to be at the funeral too. Holy tacked on villian Spiderman! Why was Venom in this at all? That's a villian with so much more potential! The black symbiote suit story worked okay but the Eddie Brock/Venom of this film felt like a joke. Though I can't deny his talent in being able to write "Come get us Spiderman" in his web using the offical Marvel Spiderman font™©®!!! I really liked the crane accident action seqeunce. I felt it outweighed the climax and looked 110% better than the construction site seqeunce. That just didn't look polished. It was so CG, it was like watching the first Toy Story. I'm not going to write my 5 paragraph rant on "The Butler Thing" since Pleading Eyes already mentioned it... But... YEAH. I thought that Peter & MJ's story was once agian done very well and served up the only involving story arc of the film. The rest just suffered from "everything and the kitchen sink" syndrom: Slim development of characters (too many!), and extereme events of convenient coincidence. Again, if you liked it- That's totally cool. It was a fun summer flick. But I have to disagree on a whole. Only because Rami's proven he can do so much better... Don't get me started on "X-Men 3" either! XD
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Post by frozenwind141 on May 7, 2007 9:20:43 GMT -5
I completly agree with you alternatecoppa. Though the thing that also annoyed me alot was the whole Gwen Stacy thing. What the he** was Parker thinking when he kissed her? It was so unbelieable to me. Did he suddenly have a memory lapse and forget that the girl he wanted to propose to was in the crowd!?
...
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Post by alternatecoppa on May 7, 2007 9:38:13 GMT -5
I completly agree with you alternatecoppa. Though the thing that also annoyed me alot was the whole Gwen Stacy thing. What the he** was Parker thinking when he kissed her? It was so unbelieable to me. Did he suddenly have a memory lapse and forget that the girl he wanted to propose to was in the crowd!? ... Yeah, but I think that might have just been Peter's cockiness and newly discovered ego getting in the way of his judgement and it added another useful punch to their dilemma (again the only plot line I thought was done well). However, the Gwen Stacy character (added soley for fan appeal in my opinion) was just too convienently used... and then forgotten about until being unexplainably seen at the funerial without closure.
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Post by Ilyus on May 7, 2007 9:59:54 GMT -5
The movie was (as a lot of others have said) "okay." Even at the beginning of the movie I felt the plot was rushed. There were five seconds for this character, another five seconds for a completely different character, and so on, when ten seconds for each could have made the scene jumps less choppy. Also, it was hard to decide which characters to cheer and boo for. Should you feel empathy for Peter because of his third-movie problems or did he deserve every negative consequence of his actions? The same goes for just about every other character that flip-flops between good and evil in this film. To me, there wasn't ever really a moment when you could understand why they did any of it. Yes, there was dialogue to explain some of it, but I didn't have the chance to feel it for myself and as a result found it hard to empathize with any of them.
Also, some of the action sequences were unbelievable. I don't remember any specific moments right now (I've had enough sleep to forget them all), but I do remember cringing at some of the flashier/unrealistic moves that the first two movies kept out.
Overall the movie was entertaining--it wasn't so bad that I wanted my money and time back, but it wasn't so great that it left me sitting in my seat for twenty minutes afterwards. I believe the first two had much better formulas and hope that, if they decide to make a Spiderman 4, they'll take inspiration from them again.
Did anyone else crack up at that one moment where Spiderman dropped down in front of the American Flag towards the end, or was that just me?
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Post by frozenwind141 on May 7, 2007 10:16:17 GMT -5
You are definately not alone. Because I live in England people in the cinema actually booed when that hapenned. *sigh*...Typical.
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Post by Ilyus on May 7, 2007 10:30:43 GMT -5
I have nothing against people being patriotic, but that particular image was just a little too hokey.
That bad though, eh?
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Post by Everwen45 on May 7, 2007 10:35:03 GMT -5
I have nothing against people being patriotic, but that particular image was just a little too hokey. That bad though, eh? Yeah, my mom and I were like "Oh no, they didn't!" But they did. And they did it too at the end of the first film. Anyway... Okay, my turn to give a long ramble. The emotional dilemma of Peter Parker was probably the only part of the plot that was actually made well -he's the main character, after all- and his interactions with the other characters were also well. The problem is that they want to do too much in short amount of time. The time they use in develop the so called problems of our three main characters make the movie feel long and slow, especially because they start mixing that with out of nowhere scenes of Sandman, wich is not such a cool villain by the way. The story of Sandman would have been okay if he was the only villain. Now, his subplot with his daughter it's pretty much send to oblivion, plus he ends contradicting himself through all the movie, he first he does this thing, but he never meant it, so he does this other thing to ammend the previous, but something goes wrong, he gets angry, and does the first thing again, and now he meants it. Scriptwriters: Decide what are gonna do with a character. The problem with Harry's development is that is hurried -like everything in this film- I can deal with quick redemption -which you can apply if the character has a tragic ending- If they had cut the amnesia plot, things would have been a lot better. And yes, the funeral was such a plot hole. Not only was weird that Gwen and Captain Stacy were there, but, from where the heck all that people came from? We are told in each movie that Harry has no family, and that Peter and Mary Jane are his only friends. It's incredibly how they got Willem Dafoe for every movie, and how they got James Cromwell to appear like, what? Five minutes? Speaking of characters that appear for five minutes, lets talk about Gwen and Eddie/Venom. Gwen was so useless in this film, I mean, useless. That's all you can say about her. Really. And Eddie, he appeared when it has past half and hour -I swear, when Topher Grace finally appeared I muttered "Finally!"- His lack of screen time makes him too almost useless, save for the last part of the film in which he's already Venom. And the church scene would have been a lot more convincing if he had a proper character development. Now, many are saying that Venom in the comic is not a good character, outside having cool scene fights. I agree. But, for the sake of the film, they could have made him a good interesting villain, but no, they wanted to do the same thing they did on X-Men 3: A flashy and crowded movie with pointless characters and a messy "plot". Thst is why this is gonna sound weird. I do like Spider-Man 3, I do. I think is way better than Spider-Man 2 -which I dislike with passion- Spider-Man 3 has good fight scenes, fun moments -dancing Emo Peter is priceless- and I did have a good time while watching it. I just think it could have been better done, to make the final installment a memorable one -or maybe not, 'cause apparently there's gonna be another three films-
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Post by kataangist™ Is Nostolgic <3 on May 7, 2007 10:42:35 GMT -5
i saw the spiderman/vemon cartoon episode series when i was like 5 or 6 and they rocked and when spiderman 2 came out i wondered when they where going to bring venom into the the movies and now my prayers have been answered! YIPPEE!
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on May 7, 2007 10:58:49 GMT -5
Okay... All you folks who liked this flick... You're the same people who liked that steaming pile of poo called "Batman Forever" just because it starred Jim Carry aren't you? Okay, let it go Pleadi. He's just joking. Let it go, let it go, don't let your debater tendencies get the best of you... ARGHHH! NO! I did NOT like Batman Forever! I don't even like Batman! Put down my guns? You, of all people Coppa, should know putting "down" guns isn't an option in my family. XD Mostly subjective? Yes. Wholly subjective? No. No one's going to say that a scribble is more artistic than the Mona Lisa. They just won't. There is a universal human sense of aesthetics, to some degree, anyway. And no one's arguing that. And yet people keep bashing it... Okay, I wouldn't say it exactly went to nowheresville. I think the idea was more "life's not fair, man. My uncle died, even though you were never a bad guy and you never meant to kill him. Your daughter's dying and you can't afford medicine, but robbing banks isn't the answer either. Sucks, but sometimes you just have to accept your demons and stop lashing out at the world." Gwen Stacy should've died. End of story. I was WAITING for her to die, the way she does in the comics! GRRR! A whole movie, WASTED. Haha, not really. Maybe she was there for Peter. You said so yourself, Coppa. "You girls say you want nice guys, but then you go looking for the biggest jerk you can find." Or something along those lines. She probably forgave him, especially seeing as his best friend just died. They were still lab partners you know, so she must've been in contact with him often and known he wasn't usually such a totaly jerkwad. Now this is just a silly complaint. It's like saying that Peter just happened to be at that one lab that was experimenting with spider DNA. And that he just happened to get bitten. And that he just happened to get super-awesome spider powers instead of dying of radiation poisoning. Sorry to use this excuse, but Venom was just being set up. He's still alive. How do I know? Clues, my friend. The black goo keeps moving at the end. And in an interview, someone mentioned that "one of the characters you think dies will be back." I'm doubting its Harry, as much as I'd like to see a zombie battle, breaking out of his grave would seem too Kill Bill to me. No thanks. No arguements here. Except the ending climax had Harry, so... +200 points. Yeah, YEAH! That's what I THOUGHT! XD Like I said, I feel this movie was trying to pick up on what the last two kinda skipped over, even if it had to sacrifice the development of other characters. It focused more on Peter and MJ's development, not to mention Harry, who were becoming second to the villains Spidey was fighting. The true villain in this movie was NOT Sandman, or Venom, or even New Goblin. It was Spidey himself. His own evil, and his struggle to overcome it. I think it was well handeled too, even if Peter's emo-hair and nerd-pimp strut was a bit much. Though, like someone said, the other two villains were a bit too on the unrealistic side. Green Goblin and Doc Ock were products of science gone awry. Venom was... an unexplained alien goo? And as far as Sandman goes, when is New York City going to learn to stop building prisons right next to perticle testing plants with low fences? Don't you compare this movie to X-man 3! X-3 was a CRIME AGAINST MY EYES! ...and ears... and my free time... and my SOUL! I feel like I'm going to comic-book hell just for watching that BLASPHEMY! *looks at time* Ohh... I should probably get to class... *runs*
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Post by alternatecoppa on May 7, 2007 13:56:41 GMT -5
I agree- but you haven't been to a Modern Art Museum lately have you? XD I'm not kidding you. ^This kinda of worthless junk gets on the walls all time... Okay. But imagine this scenaro: Peter finds that Harry's left him a portion of his estate in his will (written when he was in a "non-kill Peter" mindset) He decides to use it to help Marko's daughter and seeks her out. We have a final scene of Sandman looking in through a window (a throw back to the eariler scene where he sneaks in her window at home) into an intensive-care hospital room as his daughter finally gets the care she needs. Character story arc resolved. By seeking absolution from Peter, he sets in motion events that lead to his daughter getting proper care without having to resort to robbing banks. Or just have him dissolve and drift away... People are making for the exits by now anyway so they can get out of the parking lot early. XD I wouldn't have even brought that up if films 1 & 2 hadn't wrapped up their villians so nicely. XD They do! *Gets shot again* Good point... But that's continuity spackle. We had to come up with that explanation on our own. I acknowledge some in some films that's part of their method and we're meant to come up with or own conclusions. But I just thought the previous films set a precident of avoiding those kinds of "hunh?" moments involving characters that figured into the main story as much she did. True but they explained through dialogue why he was at the museum (class trip) and why the Spiders weren't ordinary (genetic manipulation). All they had to do was have a quick exchange like this at the grave site: Gwen: I'm sorry for your loss Peter: Look Gwen, I know there's no excuse for what I did... I'm sorry... I... Gwen: It's okay Peter (inset another brief condolance here) End of scene and I'd be happier geek who wouldn't be typing long posts over the dorkiest of plot points. XD With font crafting skills like those, he better be back! XD Like I said before, if ya liked it- Cool! I wasn't as thrilled by it and all my ribbing and nitpicking is done in the warmest spirit of friendly ribbing as I know you all can do to me too! XD
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Post by appacatbus on May 7, 2007 16:29:15 GMT -5
Did anyone else think that Stan Lee's cameo was a bit... weird?
Its not like Stan Lee is briefly playing a character, it feels more like fourth wall breaking Stan Lee playing himself.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on May 7, 2007 17:31:48 GMT -5
My life in smiley form. KIDDING! I don't even like guns... Yeah, but just because pretentious snobs decide that their spit is beautiful doesn't mean we should agree. Erm, I mean, that's very nice. I don't know about that. Your solution, in itself, seems like a deus ex machina to me. Why would Harry write a will at all? It's HARRY! Even when he wasn't in "death to Parker!" mode, he was off painting fruit and singing in the rain. I doubt, young and care-free as he is, he'd be thinking about the possibility of his own death. I mean, think about it... "La, la, la. What a beautiful day! You know what? I'm going to write out my will and leave a portion of the estate to my bestest friend in the whole wide world, PETER! Just incase, in the unlikely event that I die in an accident related to my father's evil technology which I forgot I know anything about. HURRAY, MUFFINS!" Not really. Film one left us hanging with Harry's whole "Spidey killed mah daddy! Ooh, and now I found his technology! WAAA! I hate spiders!" thing... Well actually, I think it would be necessary for Gwen to be their anyway. Why? Because Harry died fighting alongside Spiderman and protecting the city. Gwen's father is a high ranking police cheif or comissioner or something... he has pretty badges on his suit. I think, seeing as at that point Harry would be considered a City hero, it would be appropriate and probably even expected for the police... cheif... guy... person to go. And Gwen accompanied her father, not unusual at all. That's what I said! XD Same here! I mean to debate under the friendliest terms. No arguements, just an exchange of opinions. Besides, a movie could never divide US, Alt. Squee! ^_^
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Post by alternatecoppa on May 7, 2007 22:28:00 GMT -5
Absolutely! We're like Peanut Butter and Jelly! Marco and Polo! The Captian and Tennille! "Spidey will keep us together..." XD I wish you could've gone to college with me. Soooo many people there were just begging for that kind of wake up call. I figured no one would like that scenario but I took a quick stab at it. However the point is: Don't tug at meh heartstrings with a big drawn-out scene of a little girl with a breathing tube and crutch who writes to her daddy in prison AND THEN leave her still dying slowly in her ghetto apartment by the end of the film with no closure to her suffering in sight! I don't see how that's gonna carry over to another film. Harry's continuing story (and subsquent cliffhangers) through the 3 films was much more acceptable since he was always up front and close to the main plot to start with. I can't for the life of me see how or why they'd want to bring Sandman back just to resolve his daughter's story in a sequel... That's definately a better take on that. I still say it was a bit too rushy-rushy (like my new catch phrase? XD) to just dump her there after what went down between them and say nothing. Maybe if it were clearer there's going to be another sequel... Of course it looks that way now, but it wasn't as of filming or when they were hyping the film so I certainly wasn't in the mindset of "just wait, they'll get around to that unresolved tertiary character in 2 to 3 years." "Pssst! Venom SUCKED!" *sticks tounge out and runs away across the school yard* XD
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on May 7, 2007 22:40:44 GMT -5
I wish you could've gone to college with me. Soooo many people there were just begging for that kind of wake up call. We could've been a snob-fighting duo! Curse time and it's... linear-ness. Or at least it's illusion of linear-ness, though it may in fact be cyclical and we just don't know it... ... I hate metaphysics. No, I like the scenario, it just didn't quite fit. Even with Happy-Harry. That's probably the movie's worst loose plot thread. But I was anticipating a sequel as I watched the movie, so I guess it didn't bother me as much. That and the fact that, as sad and unfair as it is, it almost evens things out. Peter lost his uncle, Sandman is loosing his daughter... both innocent people who didn't deserve to die, and both of the super-powered people who love them feel like they COULD'VE done something about it. Hey! I just thought of how to fix your scenario. Maybe Harry isn't the type to think ahead and make a will, but his father was! Maybe Harry's father, before he went crazy and into "Kill Spidey mode", planned to leave some of his estate to Peter in the case that his irresponsible embarrassment of a son mismanaged the company and/or died. That would work, and make a good opening to the next movie. Your new catch phrase? Love it. But I think it's quite plausible for Gwen Stacy to make that public appearance at the funeral with he father. In fact, I'm sure people would be complaining about it now if she hadn't. *Chases you angrily, but then trips and falls in the sandbox* I'm telling Ms. S! *runs to Shayna* Ms. S! Ms. S! Alt pushed me in the sandbox! ...Also, Ms. S, Tungsten pulled my pigtails again. XD
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Post by appacatbus on May 8, 2007 0:14:23 GMT -5
Venom was just thrown in to offer a conlusion to the symbiote dark suit emo peter story. He was a shallow plot device just like Gwen Stacey.
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