Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Jun 4, 2007 0:38:28 GMT -5
did the guru say he had to let go of all emotion? i don't remember that. i should watch the ep. again apparenlty I don't think so. It kind of seemed like Guru Pathik was trying to help Aang let go of all the negative emotions he felt, so that he doesn't become easily angered or upset etc. The problem is that by suggesting to "let go" of his earthly attachments, it'd make Aang a Super!Being, since he'd be reaching enlightenment.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:38:50 GMT -5
Exactly. How can you say that Aang doesn't love everybody? An entire episode was dedicated to his love for everyone (The Avatar State) and how he would do anything to help those being hurt. He put his life, Katara's and Sokka's in danger so he could attempt something dangerous to save thousands of people that he had never met. You got it, and the fact of the matter is the Guru wanted Aang to give that up. He wants Aang to save the world, but he wanted him to give up everything that makes the world so great for him. Aang, or anyone with a lot of responsibility, are not selfish for having hopes, dreams, and desires. Aang was perfectly justified for running away and ending up in the iceberg. The monks could have upped Aang's training without taking him away from Gyatso, but the simple truth is that the Monks were trying to turn Aang into something he's not supposed to be, an all-powerful being on a mountain. But why did he only see Katara? Why not the others too? I think that is pretty important. Why was she the only thing he objected to letting go of an attachment to? Because Katara was the only one of his friends in danger. Toph had busted out as was safely on her way back to Ba Sing Se, and Sokka was still at his Father's camp, preparing for battle. He saw the vision of the love for the air nomads merge into Katara before he even saw the vision of her in trouble when he tried to open the last chakra. Aang was not justified in running away. He was being selfish. He didn't even try to talk it out with the other monks or think about what might happen to the world if he ran away. It was about what he wanted.
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Post by Amira on Jun 4, 2007 0:39:30 GMT -5
LOL, YS, I saw your double posting but I figured that's what was going on.
How come Iroh is only right when his advice applies to Zuko?
Aang's a different Avatar. He is probably facing a situation with the war, with his friends/team, his teachers that is probably very different from the other Avatars. And maybe that's the point. He is a different kind of Avatar.
And what was he going to say to the other monks? Do you think they would've listened? He panicked. Quite frankly I didn't understand their reasoning. Isn't it better to have a happy, well-adjusted Avatar than a miserable, bitter one?
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clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
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Post by clearsunrise on Jun 4, 2007 0:42:35 GMT -5
ahh ok melis that makes more sense to me^^;;
and i think the guru and iroh were both right in a way. i guess aang or any of the characters really just need to find a middle ground.
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Jun 4, 2007 0:42:50 GMT -5
@ys: Not justified? Did you seriously think he was just going to go "okay lets do it"? He was afraid, it was a human trait.
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Post by brilliantlygreen on Jun 4, 2007 0:43:06 GMT -5
He saw the vision of the love for the air nomads merge into Katara before he even saw the vision of her in trouble when he tried to open the last chakra. And the Guru explained why. Because when all of the air nomads were killed, all of Aang's love for them was transferred to Katara. It's almost as if he can't help but to be in love with her. ALL of the love that he has for an entire culture amounts to the love he has for one person. If you want to talk about being selfish, then we should change the topic to Zuko.
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Post by stinkypinky on Jun 4, 2007 0:44:05 GMT -5
Now if only in some way we could get some discussion like this over at the Naruto board...
The airbending monks? In their culture, attachment goes against what they believe in and therefore saw that they needed to separate the two.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:44:10 GMT -5
LOL, YS, I saw your double posting but I figured that's what was going on. How come Iroh is only right when his advice applies to Zuko? Aang's a different Avatar. He is probably facing a situation with the war, with his friends/team, his teachers that is probably very different from the other Avatars. And maybe that's the point. He is a different kind of Avatar. And what was he going to say to the other monks? Do you think they would've listened? He panicked. Quite frankly I didn't understand their reasoning. Isn't it better to have a happy, well-adjusted Avatar than a miserable, bitter one? First of all you can't say someone will not listen until you tried to talk it out with them and you should know me of all people does not think Iroh is right about all his advice to Zuko. I don't like how he encouraged Zuko to forget his real identity in favor of a false one and a false life built on that in Ba Sing Se. I would have preferred to see Zuko to be directed to fight the injustice that his nation was perpetrating on the world but that is just me.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Jun 4, 2007 0:44:51 GMT -5
Just like how Zuko turned on Iroh in the catacombs of old Ba Sing Se because he wanted to get his father's love and his honor back.
I agree Amira. It sort of seems like Aang is going down a path that most Avatars didn't even walk on. I don't think it's ever been mentioned that an Avatar travelled in a group like Aang does.
I agree. They just have to find that middle ground. IMO, Aang can have his earthly attachments as long as he doesn't let them cloud his judgement. It can be done, I honestly think Aang can do it if he puts his mind to it and believes that by "letting go", he's not letting go forever.
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Jun 4, 2007 0:46:13 GMT -5
I suppose Gyatso committed some serious violations then?
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Post by Amira on Jun 4, 2007 0:48:14 GMT -5
But based on what we saw, I doubt they would have. If they wanted to have Aang's input they would've sought it out prior to making the decision. He wasn't included and only Gyatso seemed truly concerned for his feelings, understanding that there must be a balance between allowing Aang to be just a boy and be the Avatar. Remember, they dumped this in Aang's lap several years before he would've been told. Maybe if he had been 16 he would've reacted differently becuase he would've have been nearly an adult.
Aang isn't just some spirit. He is Aang. And I think in part that's what draws him to Katara is that she sees Aang and not just the Avatar.
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Post by stinkypinky on Jun 4, 2007 0:48:54 GMT -5
I suppose Gyatso committed some serious violations then? I dunno, I'm not an airbending monk am I? Basing this all on speculattion. Gyatso saw what he thought was the right thing to do for Aang, to let him be a normal airbending boy for a while. He probably didn't see it himself that he was getting too attached to him.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:49:37 GMT -5
Just like how Zuko turned on Iroh in the catacombs of old Ba Sing Se because he wanted to get his father's love and his honor back. I agree Amira. It sort of seems like Aang is going down a path that most Avatars didn't even walk on. I don't think it's ever been mentioned that an Avatar travelled in a group like Aang does. I agree. They just have to find that middle ground. IMO, Aang can have his earthly attachments as long as he doesn't let them cloud his judgement. It can be done, I honestly think Aang can do it if he puts his mind to it and believes that by "letting go", he's not letting go forever. I'm not defending Zuko. He is selfish too. But Aang is on this pedestal where he seems incapable of committing selfish acts. He isn't immune from being absorbed with his own desires.
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Post by psylum on Jun 4, 2007 0:50:51 GMT -5
I honestly believe that he was. He wasn't abandoning the world by going to save Katara, he was putting off mastering the Avatar State to save someone he loves, if you think that's selfish...well I don't know.
Also I should note that there are examples of Messiah figures that had wives. Mohammad for one, his wife was his number one supporter. Moses had a wife, so did David. In fact, its even being questioned weather Jesus had a wife or not.
A Messiah's spouse has to be a very special person, someone who understands the task they're love has to accomplish, and that it may mean they have to put strangers before them. However they stand by their love because they understand the importance of the task.....Gee, sort of like Katara, how about that?
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Post by brilliantlygreen on Jun 4, 2007 0:51:52 GMT -5
But Aang is on this pedestal where he seems incapable of committing selfish acts. He isn't immune from being absorbed with his own desires. You want to know why? Because he's human.
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