Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
|
Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:21:47 GMT -5
You continue to downplay that moment without even knowing the entire effects of it. I say it is pretty pivotal considering the sort of person Zuko is. IMO, most people continue to overplay that little moment. People think that everything Zuko and Katara do foreshadows a future romance between them. It doesn't. They came to an understanding for all of 10 minutes in the cave and it ended just as quick as it begun And you think that a blush from a little kid and a smirk equals true love. Is that not overplayed?
|
|
clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
|
Post by clearsunrise on Jun 4, 2007 0:23:44 GMT -5
hmm i don't think iroh or the guru was wrong. it's just two different views on things. i do think that aang should take care of what he needs to do before he thinks about being in a relationship.
as far as the zutara cave scene...i don't really feel like arguing about that one at the moment. i'll just say that some people downplay it too much and some people emphasize it too much. i do believe it'll be important later though
|
|
|
Post by brilliantlygreen on Jun 4, 2007 0:24:26 GMT -5
Does that mean Zuko's focus on Aang is weakness? He has put his crew into more danger than necessary just so he can get to the avatar in hope of his daddy loving him once again.
Aang's focus on Katara isn't 'weakness'. It's love. It's attachment.
He chose the Avatar State as a last resort because of the destruction it causes, and Aang wanted to avoid that.
Edit: ALSO, quit double posting 'A little blush and a smirk' does not describe anything. There is SO much more between Aang and Katara than that, and you know that.
|
|
Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
|
Post by Power on Jun 4, 2007 0:25:07 GMT -5
The Avatar has a messianic role as savior of the world. Remember what Katara says in the theme: I believe Aang can save the world. And honestly you cannot deny that Aang has thought about himself ahead of being the Avatar. His focus on Katara was a weakness. He decided to master the Avatar State as a last resort. And just because Iroh thinks differently that doesn't make the guru wrong. Iroh also told Aang that everything is going to always turn out right which it won't unless you do something to make it happen. Wisdom vs Experience concerning the Guru and Iroh is a topic of merit, and we will find out in season 3. And it looks to me, he alone isnt going to win this battle, especially when it has been known that the Avatar can be defeated. He doesnt have to go on a set path to achieve the fully realized role of Avatar, one way ended with him nearly dead, and for now a new path has to be found.
|
|
Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
|
Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:25:18 GMT -5
But he doesn't just love those around him. He is entirely focused on one person alone. It is Katara he has a problem letting go of. I think he needs to learn to love everyone equally as messianic figures like Jesus did. I'm sorry, but if you think Aang would see a vision of Sokka or Toph in danger and not react the same way, you are seriously misjudging Aang's character. But why did he only see Katara? Why not the others too? I think that is pretty important. Why was she the only thing he objected to letting go of an attachment to?
|
|
clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
|
Post by clearsunrise on Jun 4, 2007 0:25:25 GMT -5
actually it kinda is a weakness for zuko. it stops him being his own person.
|
|
Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
|
Post by Melis on Jun 4, 2007 0:25:47 GMT -5
The Avatar does, but because of what Katara says in the theme, I see Aang saving the world on his own terms.
He has before, but he's come to accept his duties.
Well, if I had a terrible power that can be unleashed because of my emotions I would try and master that too. I wouldn't want to hurt the people closest to me. I'm not going to say that one side is right while the other is wrong because both are wisdom-like characters. Iroh represents the earthly attachments (IMO) and Guru Pathik represents the universal role of the Avatar as a whole. Iroh told Aang that if he just kept searching and moving that he'll come to another place. To me, that meant that mastering the Avatar State wasn't the only way to stop the war. Or, that he doesn't have to give up his attachments to save the world.
Well, they've already resolved the whole "Appaaaa!!" attachment that Aang had, so why not move on to the next person? It's obvious that Aang is attached to Katara just as strongly as he is attached to Appa.
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Jun 4, 2007 0:26:02 GMT -5
Exactly. How can you say that Aang doesn't love everybody? An entire episode was dedicated to his love for everyone (The Avatar State) and how he would do anything to help those being hurt. He put his life, Katara's and Sokka's in danger so he could attempt something dangerous to save thousands of people that he had never met. You got it, and the fact of the matter is the Guru wanted Aang to give that up. He wants Aang to save the world, but he wanted him to give up everything that makes the world so great for him. Aang, or anyone with a lot of responsibility, are not selfish for having hopes, dreams, and desires. Aang was perfectly justified for running away and ending up in the iceberg. The monks could have upped Aang's training without taking him away from Gyatso, but the simple truth is that the Monks were trying to turn Aang into something he's not supposed to be, an all-powerful being on a mountain. I'm sorry, but if you think Aang would see a vision of Sokka or Toph in danger and not react the same way, you are seriously misjudging Aang's character. But why did he only see Katara? Why not the others too? I think that is pretty important. Why was she the only thing he objected to letting go of an attachment to? Because Katara was the only one of his friends in danger. Toph had busted out as was safely on her way back to Ba Sing Se, and Sokka was still at his Father's camp, preparing for battle.
|
|
|
Post by waterfire (I am back!!!) on Jun 4, 2007 0:27:39 GMT -5
Man they are both Zuko and Katara are stubborn are they?
|
|
|
Post by brilliantlygreen on Jun 4, 2007 0:30:04 GMT -5
It's almost as if this whole 'mastering of the avatar state' process does nothing more than de-humanize him. He lets go of all emotions, and all attachments. If lets everything go, and saves the world, then what does he have to live for?
|
|
Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
|
Post by Melis on Jun 4, 2007 0:32:35 GMT -5
IMO, Aang needs to be earthly attached to the world. How else will he realize just how important his mission is?
There's so much more to the development of their relationship besides a blush and a smirk. There's sooo much more.
|
|
clearsunrise
Pupil Sokka
Waterbending Admiral of the Zutarian Army
Posts: 5,462
|
Post by clearsunrise on Jun 4, 2007 0:32:48 GMT -5
did the guru say he had to let go of all emotion? i don't remember that. i should watch the ep. again apparenlty
|
|
Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
|
Post by Youkai-Slayer on Jun 4, 2007 0:33:48 GMT -5
Does that mean Zuko's focus on Aang is weakness? He has put his crew into more danger than necessary just so he can get to the avatar in hope of his daddy loving him once again. Aang's focus on Katara isn't 'weakness'. It's love. It's attachment. He chose the Avatar State as a last resort because of the destruction it causes, and Aang wanted to avoid that. Edit: ALSO, quit double posting 'A little blush and a smirk' does not describe anything. There is SO much more between Aang and Katara than that, and you know that. I was referring to Meiko. And if it looks like I am double posting it is because I have to answer like four or five people arguing with me at once and let's face it people are too lazy to scroll back on pages. I know this because pages later after someone calimed responsiblity for spreading a false spoiler, people were still talking about it as though it had validity.
|
|
|
Post by brilliantlygreen on Jun 4, 2007 0:35:53 GMT -5
That's why there is a modify button at the top of each post.
|
|
|
Post by psylum on Jun 4, 2007 0:38:27 GMT -5
did the guru say he had to let go of all emotion? i don't remember that. i should watch the ep. again apparenlty Actually you'll find that Hinduism, the religion in which Chakra Philosophy comes from, teaches that only by letting to of earthly attachments and emotions can you become truly enlightened. Buddism and shintoism was estabilshed because of the people that realized that detachment is a flaw.
|
|