MsJimmy
Refugee Aang
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Posts: 4,630
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Post by MsJimmy on Jun 12, 2007 19:09:40 GMT -5
Just because evil is all we've seen of her so far doesn't mean that's all she can ever be. That's all she has ever known. That's all she's ever had the oppurtunity to know, given her status with her father and all. If she gets the chance to see something else, it's a decision she can make whether or not to change. So far, there is nothing for her to change to because she doesn't know what else there is. All she's ever known is what she was raised to be, and that just happens to be this controlling, perfectionist, dominating view on everything.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jun 12, 2007 19:17:23 GMT -5
That is the "realist" perspective. In real life, of course it is possible for someone to change.
But in a narrative story, there's a clear line where redemption for a villain is just...madness. I think Azula's crossed that line. In fact, after attempting to kill three main character's, I'd say the line is so far behind her that she couldn't see it with a telescope if it fired up a flare gun.
Why? It wouldn't make any sense. First of all, her character has no motivation to WANT to change. Second of all, there is no discerable reason FOR her to change. Third of all, they would just be copying themselves by making "Zuko Two." Fourthly, it would utterly destroy her character. Currently she has no traits other than being evil. What would she do once redeemed? I can't imagine her being kind and sweet in her life time.
No...I don't think that there's any reason for her to change, and considering how much it would compromose both her character and the believability of the show in general, it's not worth it. The creators themselves have described her as the essentially evil villain on the show, so I'm thinking that's what she'd stay as.
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
Posts: 537
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Post by SpiritBender on Jun 12, 2007 19:29:34 GMT -5
^^Azula represents the element of fire itself gone out of balance in the world. The Avatar has reappeared in the world to restore balance. Azula is NOT going to suddenly "see the light" and decide that the Avatar is right. She is pure drive and ambition, and nothing more. She's insane because she doesn't realize that by destroying the Avatar, she is destroying the embodiment of life itself on the planet! If he doesn't stop the Fire Nation, then fire will consume the entire world, including the Fire Nation and Azula. The story has been set up this way for a reason, and Azula is NOT going to suddenly change her mind about wanting to rule the world.
-- SpiritBender
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MsJimmy
Refugee Aang
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Posts: 4,630
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Post by MsJimmy on Jun 12, 2007 22:00:32 GMT -5
you said she has no desire to change. Look at Zuko, he doesn't have that desire. It was forced upon him. And he ended up just going right back to Azula. Who's to say what will happen and who wants what and what will happen to them regardless of what they want.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Jun 12, 2007 22:31:32 GMT -5
Azula takes malicious pleasure in what she does, Zuko did not. She seems to enjoy violence. Therefore, why would she desire change?
Zuko and Azula are completely different characters: Zuko showed signs of compassion as early as the third episode. We've had twenty of Azula and she's only gotten worse.
Why should Azula be redeemed, anyway?
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MsJimmy
Refugee Aang
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Post by MsJimmy on Jun 12, 2007 23:59:20 GMT -5
she doesn't really show much of anything at all... she's pretty controlled in most of what she does. You don't know what she's thinking all the time. If you were raised to only know one thing, could you be blamed for it?
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Jun 13, 2007 0:07:02 GMT -5
I don't think Azula can be redeemed.
She's already attempted to kill three main characters (like Yiceman and others have stated) and succeeded once with Aang. She didn't even flinch or hesitate. She smirked when she shot lightning at him from behind. She didn't care. I doubt Azula would want to be redeemed anyway. She shows no signs of it, and I don't think we will anytime soon.
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Post by Fire Nation Girls Are Hot on Jun 16, 2007 15:36:04 GMT -5
yes i believe she can and she will change for the better!
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Post by Fire Lord Azula on Jun 16, 2007 16:21:12 GMT -5
MsJimmy and oncoming supporters of redemption: Every character on this show, sans Azula, has displayed signs of having a soul. Based on what we've seen, I could make cases for Ty Lee, Mai, and even Fire Lord Ozai. The only character that undoubtedly lacks morality is Azula. You bring up the fact that we haven't seen much of her. Well, we don't need to. Her actions -- past, present, and those in the foreseeable future -- speak louder than words. She's a despicable tyrant; a murderer ( Aang, the Kyoshi Warriors (?), perhaps even her own mother... it's been hinted at! ); a reigning conqueror; an unabashed terror to the people around her and the Avatar world at large; a force of will without expression of positive emotion. Even her name is a corruption of the Sanskrit word for "demon"! You also say her behavior is a result of sheltered viewpoints and idealism imposed on her by her father. What about her mother? Sweet, noble-hearted Ursa. Her influence on Azula was nil. The girl is nothing like her mother. Contrast this with Zuko, who embodies the inner goodness and compassion of their maternal parent ( granted, it's repressed in its expression, but undeniably hidden underneath the heaviness of his rage and sorrow ). Azula knows what goodness is -- her mother was a portrait of the word. She wanted nothing to do with Ursa's teachings and resented the discipline meant to curb her outlandish behavior. Azula rejects goodness in all its forms. Redemption would be an utter massacre of her character and its core principles.
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MsJimmy
Refugee Aang
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Post by MsJimmy on Jun 16, 2007 21:21:36 GMT -5
Then do it. I would like to see examples of it.
Everything that we have seen from Azula's past has been from ZUko's POV I might like to point out. And she has been seen laughing and playing with him, like a normal child.
And yes you do need to see more. Everytime you see her is in relation to who she is suppose to be and what is set for her, or from someone else's perspective in remembrance to something that had an effect on them- which would be her lying. Which you don't even know if she was lying which might make Zuko's concept of her- "Azula always lies"- not completely true, which would make his perspective on her wrong.
So let me get this straight... she's a despicable tyrant and a murderer, for killing Aang, and possibly the Kyoshi Warriors (and why would she kill her mother? she was like eight) when others have tried to do the same? Just because she's powerful enough to actually succeed in doing her missions doesn't make her any more evil than those who have tried.
Who had more of an influence on her? Ozai. Ursa had the influence on Zuko. Azula was favored by Ozai. His views and influences are more likely to efffect her in this case, rather than Ursa
I'm pretty sure every child resents disicpline. You can't say that makes her evil.
It's not likely that she wanted nothing to do with her mother. She has been seen talking to her mother, without distaste or any resentment. Most of the times we have seen her with her mother was when she was being a brat.
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Post by neodee on Jun 16, 2007 21:42:45 GMT -5
Maybe in Season Three, we can get some more insight of the orgins of Azula's cruel behavior toward her enemies. But for the time being, NO. Yeah...the only way Azula would ever CONSIDER turning over a new leaf....I think if her friends turned on her (They won't, their too scared)...other than that...She isn't a boss without her friends and family to boss around...Here's hoping Ty lee and Mai grow some REAL GUTS and ditch Azula...I'm talking global guts because it will AT LEAST take the both of them to take on Azula.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
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Post by nandireya on Jun 16, 2007 22:14:44 GMT -5
No one is beyond redemption...but Azula has not been set up to take that path...Zuko's the one designed for that route...so I doubt we'll be seeing her turning over a new leaf.
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Ardor
Fire Nation Soldier
Captain of the Blue Spirits
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Post by Ardor on Jun 16, 2007 22:16:31 GMT -5
I haven't read anything, but what has Azula done that she needs to seek redemption?
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MsJimmy
Refugee Aang
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Post by MsJimmy on Jun 16, 2007 22:18:37 GMT -5
True, but they are together now *shrugs* Ardor.... good point... Maybe killing Aang? but in my book that's good
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Post by neodee on Jun 16, 2007 22:21:30 GMT -5
Yes Ardor...good point...I think we're just saying if she decided to become good...which has a 2.1% chance of happening...according to my calculations
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