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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 0:55:30 GMT -5
xD So if the bender doesn't control their emotions they are not powerful, yes? xD (Or they need more practice?) It's curious...but do you think powerful bending comes from emotions? I think it may, with the way Iroh demonstrated to Zuko, and with Aang and the Avatar State. But maybe it doesn't if you become so emotional- as you put Almighty, like Zhao. (Darn. Didn't think I'd say it, but I miss Zhaos character. He added something xD.)) So maybe it's: have deep emotions + not letting your emotions overpower you + common sense + cleverness+ *other*= powerful bender..? xO Edit: Confettie: Yeah, I would say we just forget the discussion. >.< We're all completely turned around and too tense. I hate when debates become discussion where it's as though each party is trying to force the other to agree with their ideals, even though that is not how the case should be, or making one party feel as though their reasons are mere 'excuses', even though they are reasons.... I just know it's queasy now. It's too stressful and I'd rather we all just go onto something else.... x( But, emotional bender-!!! xD The possiblities! xD
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 1:18:37 GMT -5
xD So if the bender doesn't control their emotions they are not powerful, yes? xD (Or they need more practice?) It's curious...but do you think powerful bending comes from emotions? I think it may, with the way Iroh demonstrated to Zuko, and with Aang and the Avatar State. But maybe it doesn't if you become so emotional- as you put Almighty, like Zhao. (Darn. Didn't think I'd say it, but I miss Zhaos character. He added something xD.)) So maybe it's: have deep emotions + not letting your emotions overpower you + common sense + cleverness+ *other*= powerful bender..? xO Well, having emotions is good I guess... but a good bender must have control over those emotions. Like Iroh said in Bitter Works, Zuko needs to let go some of his angst in order to successfully learn the "redirecting lightning" move. Having no control of your emotions creates reckless bending, and people can easily read and predict their opponenet's maneuver. I mean, bending takes lots of concentration, right? You can't really concentrate on bending if you're constantly in a rage and have your mind on something else right? -------- Gotterdammerung: I don't think people are saying that they blame Zuko for getting mutilated. People are saying, however, that they blame Zuko for getting himself into that position (which is basically what I was trying to say). Of course it isn't Zuko's fault that he was mutilated and banished. Everyone knows that was Ozai's doing. Zuko was told not to participate in the meeting, yet he insisted anyway. He was also told not to speak out of turn, yet he did it anyway. Which basically (as you were saying with the cause and effect thing) is Zuko's fault for getting himself into that situation.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 1:25:59 GMT -5
It's intriguing, because in an anime called Naruto, many fight with different ideals: one character, Sasuke, fights with the ideal of getting stronger to get revenge, Naruto, the main character, fights with the ideal to protect those he cares for...
But what ideal, primarily, is a Fire Nation soldier taught to have? Is it really to protect, or to destroy? And if that's the case (destroy) than the primary emotion they draw on, yet surpress is strength, right? Because strength is necessary to destroy...
Jeez, when you think about it, it's hard to battle and not concentrate on anything except your opponents move, your next move- and everything in between. O,O
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 1:30:40 GMT -5
Well, from what I know about the fire nation, their motive is honor. I guess from Naruto, Sasuke focuses on revenge which I would say is really his motivation... not really emotion. Naruto fights to protect which is also a motivation and I guess a reason for why he's fighting.
Interesting, though, when you look at the character's motive though. A firenation soldier can fight to protect, but the only way to protect the ones you love is by destroying the things that might harm them.
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girlunderglass
Metalbending Cop
Runs With Scissors
Just STFU Already.
Posts: 5,014
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Post by girlunderglass on Jun 16, 2006 1:38:14 GMT -5
I am, indeed, saying that blaming Zuko at all for the fact that his father scarred and banished him is wrong. Wrong with a capital "w." That was the purpose of my analogy: to illustrate why I think that it's wrong. When the abused child came home late that was technically the reason that their abusive parent threw them down the stairs, but does that mean that the child should carry any blame at all for the fact that their parent is abusive? No. The parent threw the child down the stairs because the parent is crazy. It doesn't matter if cause and effect technically states that Coming Home Late = Getting Thrown Down the Stairs. Ozai scarred and banished Zuko because Ozai is crazy. Anything that Zuko did that acted as superficial impetus for this chain of events was just an excuse, not the actual reason. I think where we're having this disconnect is that you're stating cause and effect. While I, on the other hand, am chafing at the use of words like "blame" and "fault.". I'm totally with Gotterdammerung on this one. A parents job is to protect and keep their children out of harms way- regardless of age. There is no justification for abusing ones offspring. It's the fact that Zuko is the Fire Lord's son that full punishment should not have been administered being Ozai could have over ruled it himself rather than punishing Zuko to the full extent. (Run on sentence anyone??) As a parent, I can tell you straight up, all kidding aside, if I ever found out anyone, including my own husband and kids father was abusing them, I would not be content until their body laid bloodied, blue and bloated. What Zuko did was not a dishonorable thing providing his nation was not so power hungry. The irony of it all was that fact that the youngest person in that war room was the only one with enough common sense and decency to defend the lives of other humans. And for that he wears a scar. I wonder if the men that I am sure were still sent to battle to only die knew exactly why their Prince was scarred and exiled. I also back up Gotterdammerung's statement of other abused children. You think the kid that gets beaten with a belt asked for it when they spilled some of the milk out of their cereal? Children are not asked to be born.. therefore they are innocent. Sorry if I offend anyone but 14 years old ( the age Zuko was scarred and banished) is still a child. I say this being far and few 14 year olds could support and care for themselves in this world.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 1:39:28 GMT -5
Urk. >.< Er--I put 'ideals' because I don't think of revenge as a emotion. xD What I mean was: the ideal for revenge draws up different emotions which are used to fight. If you need hatred to be strong- coming from the theory of Sasukes from Itachi- then you will summon all the hate you can. That would be the emotion that gives you your solid strength.
Eh, I don't know how this would apply for Fire Nation ideals, though. xD
Yup. Destroying to protect. I can't stand it though: one one persons side it is 'destroying to protect', and on the enemies side it is just plain 'destroy'. Makes no sense...>O
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 1:44:48 GMT -5
I am, indeed, saying that blaming Zuko at all for the fact that his father scarred and banished him is wrong. Wrong with a capital "w." That was the purpose of my analogy: to illustrate why I think that it's wrong. When the abused child came home late that was technically the reason that their abusive parent threw them down the stairs, but does that mean that the child should carry any blame at all for the fact that their parent is abusive? No. The parent threw the child down the stairs because the parent is crazy. It doesn't matter if cause and effect technically states that Coming Home Late = Getting Thrown Down the Stairs. Ozai scarred and banished Zuko because Ozai is crazy. Anything that Zuko did that acted as superficial impetus for this chain of events was just an excuse, not the actual reason. I think where we're having this disconnect is that you're stating cause and effect. While I, on the other hand, am chafing at the use of words like "blame" and "fault.". I'm totally with Gotterdammerung on this one. A parents job is to protect and keep their children out of harms way- regardless of age. There is no justification for abusing ones offspring. It's the fact that Zuko is the Fire Lord's son that full punishment should not have been administered being Ozai could have over ruled it himself rather than punishing Zuko to the full extent. (Run on sentence anyone??) As a parent, I can tell you straight up, all kidding aside, if I ever found out anyone, including my own husband and kids father was abusing them, I would not be content until their body laid bloodied, blue and bloated. What Zuko did was not a dishonorable thing providing his nation was not so power hungry. The irony of it all was that fact that the youngest person in that war room was the only one with enough common sense and decency to defend the lives of other humans. And for that he wears a scar. I wonder if the men that I am sure were still sent to battle to only die knew exactly why their Prince was scarred and exiled. I also back up Gotterdammerung's statement of other abused children. You think the kid that gets beaten with a belt asked for it when they spilled some of the milk out of their cereal? Children are not asked to be born.. therefore they are innocent. Sorry if I offend anyone but 14 years old ( the age Zuko was scarred and banished) is still a child. I say this being far and few 14 year olds could support and care for themselves in this world. Please girlunderglass, the discussion should probably end. >.< Now what I was posting- and possibly others- has turned into something that I had no intention of it to be. I'm not saying anything about abused children, and no one has stated abused children do or don't deserve what happens to them. *Sigh* I think this as gotten a bit unfair now; we're discussing many different things that weren't the start of the post. >.< And I feel like my view has been twisted and targeted. Anyway, I'd rather not post on it. It's all to tense and confusing, and what I said has been turned into something it isn't. x( Jeez. This has been a very unsettling experience. @almighty: Emotional bender...yeah... Dudes, maybe I need a break. I really am unsettled at coming on here and having my view changed, stuff added and edited at disposal and posts trying to change my valid view. To be honest, OK if you don't agree with me. I don't agree with you, but that doesn't mean it should be OK to take what I post out of context- or just label it 'non-valid' and go on. I've already had a problem with a particular War Room, a member , and having what I say suddenly meaning 'this' when it meant 'that': Enough. I'm tired of it. I'm sick of these arguements that come up over things that weren't even being stated. I'm sick of some shippers tossing other shippers around because they have a different view. I'm just- arrrrgggghhh!! Why is it stress stress stress with one post? I am not trying to offend anyone, but- goodness heck golly! I'll see you guys around. Edit: Maybe I just need to cool off, but I can honestly say, DH has not been an extremely pleasent place recently, and it's many a times over things like this. >.< Maybe I'm offended over nothing, but 'nothing' sure is....brutal. x(
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 1:52:21 GMT -5
I'm totally with Gotterdammerung on this one. A parents job is to protect and keep their children out of harms way- regardless of age. There is no justification for abusing ones offspring. It's the fact that Zuko is the Fire Lord's son that full punishment should not have been administered being Ozai could have over ruled it himself rather than punishing Zuko to the full extent. (Run on sentence anyone??) As a parent, I can tell you straight up, all kidding aside, if I ever found out anyone, including my own husband and kids father was abusing them, I would not be content until their body laid bloodied, blue and bloated. What Zuko did was not a dishonorable thing providing his nation was not so power hungry. The irony of it all was that fact that the youngest person in that war room was the only one with enough common sense and decency to defend the lives of other humans. And for that he wears a scar. I wonder if the men that I am sure were still sent to battle to only die knew exactly why their Prince was scarred and exiled. I also back up Gotterdammerung's statement of other abused children. You think the kid that gets beaten with a belt asked for it when they spilled some of the milk out of their cereal? Children are not asked to be born.. therefore they are innocent. Sorry if I offend anyone but 14 years old ( the age Zuko was scarred and banished) is still a child. I say this being far and few 14 year olds could support and care for themselves in this world. Before everything ends..... Of course there is no justification to abusing a child. But nobody is blaming Zuko for what Ozai did. We are blaming Zuko based on his own actions which is him making the decision to participate in the war room meeting even though nobody really wanted him to go. Of course WE know that Zuko's intentions were honorable. However, when looking at the other point of view... Zuko is what 14-ish during that time. He basically had the audacity to speak up in a war room meeting against those who are much older and experienced than he is. To those men, Zuko showed disrespect towards them. They have done their job for many years, yet a 14 year old kid was trying to tell them what to do. The fire nation is in a war, and reality hits hard. People die all the time in war... it's terrible, but it's reality. Having someone who is completely inexperienced with war tactics tell you what to do is annoying is it not? Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Zuko had other options of not even participating in the war room. People advised him not to, but he ignored it. We are NOT blaming him for getting mutilated; we are blaming him for basically setting himself up for an unsettling situation. --------------- Wild Actish: NOOOOOOOOO!!!! Don't leave!!!! I love reading your posts. It's just so saddening to read that you aren't enjoying the forums like you used to.
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girlunderglass
Metalbending Cop
Runs With Scissors
Just STFU Already.
Posts: 5,014
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Post by girlunderglass on Jun 16, 2006 2:00:45 GMT -5
Nah.. You stay Breathing. I'll be the one to go. I have had enough with too much BS on this forum. Seems that when I state something based on personal felling, such as being a parent or something I feel strongly about it gets turned into me picking on someone. In reality, I honestly have been nothing but nice to anyone on here or as said before, just simply stating my opinion.
Later all.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 2:02:53 GMT -5
@almighty: *Cries* But it is so chaotic here!! That's right- invisible smite me if you want, it is just ridiculous! And I'm not just upset at me: it's many a time when someones post, recently, is suddenly not a 'valid' statement. And then there's taking someones meaning in a whole 360% misdirection angle, and then jumping in with 'yeah, they're wrong!' sort of posts when what's 'wrong' has never been stated- Shippers from other ships are getting pretty much seperated because they have a different view, suddenly some members don't know what they are talking about, my jokes are coming off upset, there are too many arguements, people keep trying to change my opinions, my pancakes look like peanut butter, Bugs Bunny and Daffy- *Pants* There's chaos!!! *Rips out hair* >.< Grrrrrrrr! It's not fair to shoulder stress on any of the members! We need a discussion, because there is an undercurrent of something I don't understand. It was not this stressful before. *Sigh* Maybe it's just me though. I'm no saying it's horrible (it has a lot of cool members and awesom threads!) I'm just saying there have been sparks everywhere, which would just be sparks but now have lit up arguements and Avatar War IIIIs. And emotional bender-!!!! >O Darnit- I have no idea what to add! Forgive me. girlunderglass: Hold on- I'm the one who has had eight different people on several forums bite my head off! Why are you leaving just because you are a parent? You haven't offended me so much as agreed with a statement that was never stated. And when did I come across offend because you are coming from the view of a parent? And I haven't stated you have been rude, you have been pretty polite. *Sigh* I'm not trying to kick you off, but there has been a lot of nonsense, and it's not from you. I don't think it is your being a parent as it is bad air right now because of a few events... Anyway, you should stay. I don't feel you've picked on me. You came into the discussion at a heated time is all. I'm not upset at you, and I don't mean it to come across that way. Besides, your opinion is as valid as anyway, I just don't see what BS your implying.
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Post by Confettie on Jun 16, 2006 2:14:58 GMT -5
you know what I notice.... every topic that happens to be on Zuko turns out this way. Lets see or the Fire Nation in that fact. I got into a heated argument over the girls academy in the firenation. My view was separate and unequal but I got in this huge thing with some one who was like no there all the same. Girls and boys are treated equally in the firenation and what not. I honestly think it just bias opinions. & honestly Wild Actish, I do sometimes feel your anguish with the forums. I miss the old days when me and youkai could debate about our ships and it would be fun.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 2:22:29 GMT -5
Confettie: Seriously! It wasn't about 'me' or 'taking problems out on someone over the forums or in a debate'- it was about the whole: all of us coming here to enjoy and discuss our love and theories on Avatar. It may be Zuko. -_- It's almost amusing how so many debates with him turn into rock-hard chaos sometimes. There wasn't any 'just going with one post and not looking at them all to see what the heck everyone is really saying' before...and there wasn't so much drama before. I may sound like I'm complaining, but it's really a flurry or worry and angst over the way the forums have so many arguements- at least, in this section now. Is it because of new members? The old ones not visiting as much? I'm just...wary of posts getting taken out of context...and such. I mean, someone honestly tell me, is it honestly fun to debate anymore? Was the point ever so much as changing views- forcing them onto others, so much as just DISCUSSING our theories with love for this show? Why is it so stressful? And a feeble attempt to stay on topic: Powerful benders are powerful. x(
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 2:28:03 GMT -5
Why is everyone leaving? Girlunderglass too? Why? Maybe people are having so much stress in their real lives and they come to the forums in order to have fun but instead find themselves in a heated discussion. >.> As for your feeble attempt Wild Actish: I would have to say that is the most on topic thing posted on this thread. XD Powerful benders are indeed powerful... especially the Avatar.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 2:34:22 GMT -5
*Sniff* It's more like my real life is going great, but my online life sucks. xp
Booo! *Hiss* xD
Yeah. Powerful benders are so powerful, even I can hardly tell what level of powerful they are...except it must be:
Level Powerful. O,O!!
I wonder who was more powerful though: Avatar Roku or Kyoshi? but they were sure powerful all right...
Yeahs...x.x
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 2:49:48 GMT -5
For me, I think the most recent Avatar is the strongest. After all, the most recent has the spirits of all the avatars within him/her. ;D I hope everyone is feeling better. It's just saddening to see people leave due to the amount of stress they are experiencing in the forums. There should be a meditating thread somewhere where people should just go and vent... unless there is already one.
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