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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 2:51:42 GMT -5
But then someone will probably say to one post that vents, that the content is offensive. x( Everythings arguement-worthy these days. x( ....In Aunt Wu voice: "Aang is a very powerful bender!" xD ....The last powerful airbender?
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Post by almighty on Jun 16, 2006 3:00:55 GMT -5
Yeah.. that would be a problem because people would be calling others out. Oh darn... thought that might help the stress a bit. *I like your sig btw* Aang maybe the most powerful avatar... at least until the next one comes. I have no idea how the avatar cycle really functions so I'm just guessing. Maybe we can all go to the shipper cake thread!
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 16, 2006 3:02:43 GMT -5
Well, considering that disfiguring one's offspring would clearly count as child abuse if you're saying that Ozai (the parent) was right to scar (abuse) Zuko (the child) because he spoke out of turn (a show of perceived disrespect much like getting home late), then you're saying that it is equally right for the hypothetical child to be thrown down the stairs. Now clearly we're talking about fictional people and not real people and I'm not calling anyone a child abuser or someone who condones child abuse in real life.
That's why it's an analogy. Its purpose is to clarify the moral realities of the situation. See, if you disagree that that's what you're saying, then please either point out the flaw in my analogy or clarify that you do not think that Ozai was morally right/Zuko is to blame for what Ozai did to him.
Aang burning Katara is different because it was an accident.
Zuko shooting fire at Aang and Fire Nation soldiers scarring Song are not different and are also filed under Things That Are Wrong.
And the Roman Colloseum is one of the greatest examples of immorality in history.
My only point is this: Ozai's actions were immoral, without real provocation, and against someone who was, in essence, defenseless because Zuko refused to fight him. It doesn't matter what actions Zuko could have taken previously to not end up in an Agni Kai at all. If you want to trace cause and effect that far back to assign blame then it could just as easily be Iroh's fault for letting Zuko into the War Room or Ursa's fault for giving birth to him in the first place.
It's a simple idea: you do not blame the victim, in other words, the person being acted upon, for what is done to them.
I don't know any other way to explain the difference between pointing out objective cause/effect and making the MORAL JUDGMENT of who holds the BLAME for Ozai's actions against Zuko.
And knowing that eventually I'll start talking about rape victims in the 70s and writing a disseration on how I don't believe in moral relativism because, to me, automatically implied in it is universal amorality, I'll just stop here.
And on the other topic that has arisen: it should be noted that I am not attacking anyone. Neither am I angry or tense. I'm merely stating my opinions. I found Ozai's actions to be morally repugnant and was extremely surprised by people putting forth the idea that they were anything but or that Zuko is to blame at all for his scarring. Yes, I think that from a moral standpoint any justifications for Ozai's actions are invalid. Are we understanding what "invalid" means?
This does not mean that I intend any disrespect towards anyone who thinks that those justifications are valid and true. It just means I strongly disagree.
That happens.
And while I certainly don't endorse anyone leaving the board, I'm certainly not, this forum does have a serious issue with people feeling attacked whenever someone disgrees with them and doesn't preface their disagreement with a bunch of overly cloying caveats and addendums and IMOs and "no offense"s.
Sometimes, people are going to think that you are wrong about something. No ifs, buts, or maybes. They are going to think that you. are. wrong. And sometimes you're going to think that someone else is just as wrong. And it doesn't have to mean anything except that one that particular point the people in question disagree.
I feel like I've been nothing but polite in every argument, conversation, and debate I've ever had on this forum as long as you understand that disagreement in and of itself does not indicate rudeness or disrespect.
To me, to disrespect someone, you have to attack them personally and I have never done that. Ever.
For instance, I hate Derek and Meredith from Grey's Anatomy. I hate their relationship. I think they're both horrible people and I'd like the show better if they weren't on it. This, however, is not an attack on you Breathing just because you have them in your signature and like them. Likewise, if you told me about how awesome they are and how their love is so true and how they're wonderful people, I would disagree with you, but that wouldn't be an attack on you either. It would just be disagreement.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 3:27:12 GMT -5
::headdesk::
But it didn't truly seem as though you were debating with me, and I don't think it was a problem with being sensitive about you disagreeing. I don't mind if you disagree or not...
And-uh- thanks for saying that about Greys. And using it as an example. Really. -_- (You Addison fan you! xD J/k But horrible peple...Whoa.-_-)
The other thing I see is many people saying they are being nothing but polite. Okay, then why is anyone offended? That's not to say people are being rude, but because it's the internet, the way things are worded can mean differen't things. It doesn't necessarily have to do with disagreeing, and to say 'people are sensitivy' just feels it's putting the fact that it does seem offensive on the other person. It's hard to tell what's sincere on the net, as you don't see the person face to face, which is why I couldn't tell if you were upset Gotterdammerung or not. Nothing to do with disagreeing or not.
((Although I do think one *edit: I mean everyone* should at least show some 'I see your opinion' in a debate, instead of 'I don't see your opinion, you are wrong'' or something)). And saying 'no offense' sometimes just means: I don't want to offend.
Basically, I'm saying I felt- from your posts, it was going in another direction because that's how I viewed it...or saw the only view. xD
Anyway....*Spots* Hey, you have another link Gotterdammerung! xD
But I still feel a lot of what I said went out of context, and I still don't understand half of what was going on and how it came to be, and I'm not going to indugle to try to figure it out. xD
Let there be another- Oh, who knows. xD
@almighty: Thanks! xD Ahhhh- cake thread! *Rushes to grab cake* x3 I hope Aang will be okay with his power though.
Edit: Btw, I cannot STAND Addison. >.>
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 16, 2006 3:45:20 GMT -5
See, I love Addison with the burning fire of a thousand suns. SO MUCH DO I LOVE HER. She's my favourite. And the reason that example immediately came to mind is because I seriously hate Derek and Meredith so much that my desire to go OMGHATE has been floating around since the first time you used that sig. And, see, if this were a Grey's Anatomy discussion, I would go into why I hate them. But it's not! SO!
Well, see. Here's the thing. Tone is impossible to gauge on the internet, that's true. But just like you say that it's not necessarily right to hoist the blame onto the person who is offended by saying that they're sensitive, it's also not necessarily right to blame the person who was speaking if they didn't mean offense and were being polite.
If someone is being perfectly polite and not attacking you in any way but you still feel offended then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that perhaps you're being overly sensitive. I mean, I'm sorry if you felt offended, but believe me when I say I honestly and truly meant no offense. I was just having a discussion about morality. Which...in retrospect probably isn't the best thing to discuss on the internet, but still.
I mean, I get annoyed when people dismiss Mai/Zuko or bash Mai, because a lot of time I feel like they're unfairly brushing off a good character and good canon possibility and the people who like that character and possibility just because it doesn't vibe with their feelings about the canon. But I recognize that I'm being overly sensitive in that regard, so, you'd never know when I'm annoyed because I never mention it. Maybe it's just how I operate, but I never operate on the assumption that people mean offense (even in some cases when it's fairly clear that they probably do) so unless they say something really direct and off-the-wall, I refuse to take offense.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 3:52:33 GMT -5
See, I love Addison with the burning fire of a thousand suns. SO MUCH DO I LOVE HER. She's my favourite. And the reason that example immediately came to mind is because I seriously hate Derek and Meredith so much that my desire to go OMGHATE has been floating around since the first time you used that sig. And, see, if this were a Grey's Anatomy discussion, I would go into why I hate them. But it's not! SO! . Oh no, comrade of Maiko. >D You have begun the Greys Anatomy discussion! ((I could actually get a sense from you that you were an Addison fan...like some comp. vibe thing. O,O)) I despise her, primarily because of her attitude/personality and her cheating on Derek, but I due think he shouldn't be with her if he truly doesn't care for her..>.> And then Meredith and George really made me mad at Meredith...but people make mistakes. A lot. >.< That's one thing I love about Greys, it really elaborates on that face. But why do you enjoy her? Addison I mean? I'd replace 'I love' with 'I hate'. But I haven't met someone who actually likes her; I'm curious as to how she appeals to you as a character. Okay. Off-topic and on-topic seems fair! xD On Topic: Powerful benders are not strong: they are powerful. >D Gotterdammerung, it's kind of funny you have been going OMGHATE at that MeredithxDerek sig. xD I have imagined you with a bit of a stotic expression usually, or one like Mais, so it's pretty funny to think of an OMGHATE expression...xD But moralitiy has a host of different opinions. >.< The thing with that, is that it is a topic that brings out such deep emotion, often times you end up saying things or being offended by things you normally wouldn't. It's a touchy topic, and I try to stay away from those. xD The thing is as well, is that it is also hard to tell when someone is being polite, because different people have different views on what is or isn't polite... So many different views. @_@ And because we're all so different, we react differently. xD Edit: Oh, I know you meant know harm. xD And I hope you know I didn't either. Deciphering tone is so hard on the 'net. xD Oh! And did you know the creator of Greys is working on another television series? it sounds AWESOM...X) And the actor for Denny will be in it! :3 Edit edit: I should probably mention I'm an Alex fan too. xD
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 16, 2006 5:22:58 GMT -5
HAHAHAHAHA. Thank you for that. That's a hilarious mental image. That was the best laugh I've had all day. It's especially funny because I am actually a very emotional person! If you ever looked at my LJ you would see my mercurial moods on full display as I glee and rage intermittently about everything under the sun. I guess the air of stoicism comes from the association with Mai since I love her so much, and perhaps because I mostly post in this forum where I'm trying to rationally debate things so I'm usually very measured and reasoned in the way that I state things. Well, you should know that's all lies. I am actually a giant spaz. But, uhm, why do I enjoy Dr. Addison Montgomery-Shepherd? Oh, how I love her. LET ME COUNT THE WAYS. I feel I need PICTORIAL REFERENCES: I loved her from the first moment I saw her, because she just. She came through like a hurricane. A hot, awesome, classy hurricane in her all black ensemble with fur trim and wicked black heels and red hair. My immediate reaction was, “Oh my. Who is THIS b*tch?” If it’s not entirely obvious for my affinity for Mai, I love a cold, hard bitca. Every time. And Addison had that air about her. And did I mention the red hair and the pink scrubs? And she rocks at her job and knows it. But then, surprisingly she was not actually what she appeared. She was BETTER. Because not only is Addison sarcastic and even-tempered and generally an awesome lady, but she’s so classy and nice. So, so, so very nice. She admits and accepts and is penitent when she is wrong and she did everything she could do to try to make things right and for that I loved her. And basically the more Derek was a passive-aggressive a-hole the less and less I felt any sympathy towards him and the more and more love I developed for Addison to pile onto the already impressive amount. Plus, she’s pretty. I could go on, but really. It is enough to let it be known that I love her deeply. I also love Alex. Honestly, who’s my favourite vacillates. At any given moment it’s Alex, Bailey, or Addison. Then Cristina, George, and Burke. And my love for the Chief cannot be underestimated. And Izzie worked herself back into my good graces in the season finale. I used to love her just as much as everyone else until the thing with Denny. And I did not know that Shonda Rhimes was making another show! And that was IMPRESSIVELY off-topic. Wow. Perhaps there should be a Grey's thread on the general forum or something. Let me try for on topic: I still think that whether Zuko's a "very powerful bender" isn't terribly relevant!
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Angel Eyes
Koh
Okay. Who ate the cookies?
Posts: 5,111
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Post by Angel Eyes on Jun 16, 2006 6:05:09 GMT -5
HAHAHAHAHA. Thank you for that. That's a hilarious mental image. That was the best laugh I've had all day. It's especially funny because I am actually a very emotional person! If you ever looked at my LJ you would see my mercurial moods on full display as I glee and rage intermittently about everything under the sun. I guess the air of stoicism comes from the association with Mai since I love her so much, and perhaps because I mostly post in this forum where I'm trying to rationally debate things so I'm usually very measured and reasoned in the way that I state things. Well, you should know that's all lies. I am actually a giant spaz. But, uhm, why do I enjoy Dr. Addison Montgomery-Shepherd? Oh, how I love her. LET ME COUNT THE WAYS. I feel I need PICTORIAL REFERENCES: I loved her from the first moment I saw her, because she just. She came through like a hurricane. A hot, awesome, classy hurricane in her all black ensemble with fur trim and wicked black heels and red hair. My immediate reaction was, “Oh my. Who is THIS b*tch?” If it’s not entirely obvious for my affinity for Mai, I love a cold, hard bitca. Every time. And Addison had that air about her. And did I mention the red hair and the pink scrubs? And she rocks at her job and knows it. But then, surprisingly she was not actually what she appeared. She was BETTER. Because not only is Addison sarcastic and even-tempered and generally an awesome lady, but she’s so classy and nice. So, so, so very nice. She admits and accepts and is penitent when she is wrong and she did everything she could do to try to make things right and for that I loved her. And basically the more Derek was a passive-aggressive a-hole the less and less I felt any sympathy towards him and the more and more love I developed for Addison to pile onto the already impressive amount. Plus, she’s pretty. I could go on, but really. It is enough to let it be known that I love her deeply. I also love Alex. Honestly, who’s my favourite vacillates. At any given moment it’s Alex, Bailey, or Addison. Then Cristina, George, and Burke. And my love for the Chief cannot be underestimated. And Izzie worked herself back into my good graces in the season finale. I used to love her just as much as everyone else until the thing with Denny. And I did not know that Shonda Rhimes was making another show! And that was IMPRESSIVELY off-topic. Wow. Perhaps there should be a Grey's thread on the general forum or something. Let me try for on topic: I still think that whether Zuko's a "very powerful bender" isn't terribly relevant! I have to say... I had the same mental image of you as Wild Actish. Stoic, and stuff like that. ;D
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 16, 2006 17:02:33 GMT -5
I have to say... I had the same mental image of you as Wild Actish. Stoic, and stuff like that. ;D O,O!!! Me- stotic?? *Squeals with laughter* ;D Thank you! I'm usually off somewhere goofily talking, making weird animated hand gestures (I was once called an anime character! xD The glory!)...and sometimes looking serious as I'm trying to figure out how many times I'm dying waiting for the next chapter of Vampire Knights by Matsui Hino. xd Stotic....xD I am flattered. ^^ ((But I actually have an image of you, Angel Eyes, just relaxed for some reason; like sipping a smoothie in a peaceful place....)) x3 @gotterdammerung: Whoooooooa!!!!!!!! O,O!!! The Addison love- it blinds! xD It kills! xD *Chokes* O.O I see....That's funny you say she's nice: I just keep thinking of her as this sort of snob...>.< Although I do think it is very welcoming to see she knows her talent and is not afriad of admitting it. :3 OMG!1! Baliey!!! O,O The Cheif- they completely rock! x3 And Christina and Burke- don't let me get started...My love for them *and intrigue!* is beyond limitation. xO OMG! George is cool...x) And Izzies insanity (-_-) was pretty...unexpected! xD But I hope she stays, she really adds a lot to the cast. ((I can't believe we have to wait all summer to see some new episodes- what the heck?? I hate hiatus time! >0)) I guess I should say a little on why I like Derek and Meredith as characters? To copy Gotterdammerung *xD* and illustrate for those who don't watch amazing Greys *how could you not! >D*: This is Derek! xD To start with him (and keep it short)...he is a great character! He is a kick-awesom Doctor who knows what needs to be done and puts the patient first. I think it says a lot that the guy could have blown up because he refused to leave the hopsital because- yup, yup, he was working on a patient. Not to mention he doesn't look half bad....really really doesn't- xD *No fangirling-bad Young Icehopper!* But how can you dislike a guy known as McDreamy, eh? xD And despite his wife cheating on him, he has stayed by her. He's a decent guy, in the end. He could go with the girl who he who loves, yet he stays by his wife. Besides that he does what he can to help others and he's generally very kind. I generally see him as a character who has a firm grip on his emotions-usually, unless something draws out those emotions and makes him lose control.... Which leads to Meredith, the *technical* main character! x3 To start off I LOVE Merediths expressions. She's been looking pretty tired these days, but she has these watching eyes...as though she's a quiet person just observing. Meredith also has a grip on her priorities in medicine, also risking her life to continue helping a patient. She makes a lot of mistakes, but that makes her endearing and she learns from them. It's pretty amazing to watch Greys and see her grow as well. With all of Merediths mistakes she tries very hard to make things right. Her personality is like that of a best friends. She can be awkward, but I also tend to relate to those sort of characters. She's putting her all to be a Doctor and.... Well dudes, I better keep Meredith short. xD This is the Powerful Benders thread- forgive me! I move this to the Greys Anatomy thread! (Dude, Gotterdammerung, it'd be awesom to discuss Greys with you there! x3) Edit: There is a Greys thread. xD Hope to see you there Gotterdammerung! :3 On topic: Wikipedia has that 'power' usually implies a control or force. I thought it was pretty intersting it had 'control' related to power. If that were the case, if we were to say 'control of the situation' Aang might be excluded when he is in the Avatar State, for he isn't really in control. If we were to say, though, control of power Aang in the Avatar state still wouldn't be included. To flip it, though, and say 'force' he would most likely dominat the feild, having the most force will in the Avatar State than any other person (although it seems weird a blast from him doesn't cut clear across the Earth for miles. xD Edit: WHOA! HOLY JACKS- there is just the exhalt button! Not smite button brother! Whoooa....! O,O
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