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Post by tiaramaki on May 3, 2006 17:47:22 GMT -5
Snapm I fogot to put them down. I wanted to finish it fast. ,^^
Flaws: Chakra points (as seen in Return to Omashu), broken humoruses (AKA funny bone), for if it happens, she cannot bend or wield weapons, death of Tsen (a bit), for she cannot control her body and goes berserk.
I can't think of anymore right now.
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Post by almighty on May 3, 2006 23:20:05 GMT -5
Name: Soba Age: 14 Gender: Male Nationaity: Earth Kingdom Bending: Earth Likes: Earth bending, walking through his caves, riding jookas, bathing in the underground hot springs and eating his name-sake Disklikes: Bright light, complaining refugees and getting lost History: Of all the things that he had to becalled it was "noodles". His name was the result of cravings during his mother's pregancy. And well...it stuck. Soba lives in the underground village of Tu Long. Which was a haven for refugees and travlers. The earth benders there act as guide for those just passing through. He and his father Toramaru, are also guides. He also loves to ride jookas which look like combos of dogs, snakes and scorpions. They were thought to be accuall Tu Longs or Earth Dragons, hence the village name. Soba has strange emthatic connection with them. Which is a connected to the superstion that he must never cut his hair or less he'll lost his gift. So he keeps it constantly braided. Soba is fun-loving, cheerful and energict. He will fight for the sake of his people and his love for his father and little sister is uneding. Oh he has a pet rat named Tama too ^^ This was my first OC, Before I made Sekar and the Trio and Kavik Wow, this is my first time judging a character. I hope you guys can take constructive critisism. * His name is rather interesting. I like how he kept the name as maybe a childhood memory or just because he got really use to it. * I have to applaud to you that your character is a 14 year old AND has a father! He's an OC that can be relatable because it's out of the "norm" in the fandom world. * I'll skip the likes and dislikes. XD * This is something that I don't see everyday. A happy OC! I like how your OC has a peaceful life and how he works as a tour guide. Although, the one thing that seems to bother me a bit is how unaffected he is by the war. I think it's just me though. XD * His personality is happy, energetic, exciting.... it seems a bit... flat... 2-dimensional. I like that you didn't make him "angsty yet nice", "unemotional yet caring", "deadly yet gentle", etc. His personality doesn't seem to contradict itself which makes him more believable. I would like to know some of his flaws though, unless being "too happy" is a flaw which in some cases can be. XD * Overall, I don't think your character is a Sue. I just think that he may need a little tweeking, but I think your OC stands out because he is different from the overused "tragic past". Oh, I also like the fact that he has a father (which from that I'm assuming his mother is alive as well) because he is relatable.
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on May 4, 2006 1:48:19 GMT -5
Addressing everyone in the same post! So this is quite long. Just look for your name if you want.
Bard Child, I don't think Soba's a Mary Sue at all just by description. He seems like a very evenkeel and acceptable OC. Though I would urge caution with how you handle his special gift. In and of itself it doesn't make a Mary Sue, especially since it's not uberpowerful or anything, but you should always be careful when introducing powers, etc. to the universe that aren't actually there in canon.
Of course, any character can be made into a Mary Sue in the actual writing of a story so you know that's partially a warning for everyone.
relazedguru, I wouldn't say that Kiyana is a Mary Sue, but I would question the whole having been a ninja thing since we don't really have any kind of information about the existence of actual ninjas in the Avatarverse. Not to say that you can't make a character who was a ninja, but you would have to decide how exactly ninjas work in the Avatarverse. I might even say that you're misstepping by calling her a ninja since 1) she certainly not a kunoichi in the traditional sense and 2) even throwing out traditional gender roles she doesn't really fit since she's well known. The last thing a spy or assassin wants to be is well-known. Indeed, that's pretty much against the rules of being a ninja. The way you describe her, she's a mercenary and there's a huuuge difference between that and a ninja. Also, when you have to use another character from another property to describe your own character it's never a good sign.
mashnipfaeri, the first thing that strikes me about Tolui is the fact that you're trying to have it both ways as far as her personality. Children who are spoiled rotten brats (especially manipulative ones) are not generally sweet and loveable. It seems like it would make more sense to me if she tried to act sweet when she wanted something, which is a typical enough behavior for a spoiled child. Being the non-existent relative of a canon character is generally like automatic Sue territory, but, honestly, I can't make that judgement without knowing about the circumstances that lead to/the story preceding her birth. But the fact that her father is an OC as well doesn't really bode well, because you have twice as much work trying to sell the characters.
anastasia, Anyu sounds fine to me, though you might not want to name someone Armani since that's just going to pull people out of the story as their head is filled with visions of designer men's suits.
Midori is fine as a character, but why would the Fire Nation just kick her out of the village instead of arresting her or something?
Yuudai is okay too, but I wonder about his hair. No queue or topknot?
Though, I must say, all of your characters are exceedingly tall.
cinnebon, I think you're in a danger area with Kiya for a few reasons. One she has a middle name and surname even though we've never run into any actual person in the Avatarverse with more than one name so it makes her stand out. Plus she has a nickname and Sues are famous for their long overly complex names and also going by many names. I also don't think we've ever seen any blondes, which is probably because none of the nations have European influences. But most of all it's the lack of depth to her character and the fact that you use anachronistic terms like "ballerina" and "goth" in her bio. And her overly peppy and silly personality is very reminescent of the kind of Sue that they call a Sparklypoo in Harry Potter fandom.
Tige falls all the way into the Sue category quite neatly with the same name problems as Kiya, wacky hair, and completely anachronistic clothing. If she's a ninja I'll point you to the same issues I pointed out for mashnipfaeri and again the character seems to be lacking depth.
Kenshin is again with the blond and the shallowness.
Honestly, there's nothing even connecting these characters to the Avatarverse at all which is generally an indication that they probably will come off as Sues in a story.
stinkypinky, Zheng doesn't read at all Sueish to me and I find the idea of someone disliking benders to be very interesting, though I think disliking them for the reasons you give are a little shakey. Nations are going to be jingoistic no matter what. I think if perhaps he thought that maybe they were too dangerous or it was too much power for people to have and thus it only caused trouble etc. then it'd make more sense.
Hok, Luna does seem a bit Sueish. The major reasons for this are the fact that she's a girl and was taught waterbending in the northern tribe even though she had to have learned before Katara came along (and even then there's no solid indication that Pakku actually made an exception for anyone but Katara, but that's pretty easy to assume either way). If Pakku found out about Aang trying to teach Katara and dismissed him as a student for it, why would anything different have happened with her and her father? Also, learning swordfighting seems extraneous. Plus, the whole thing where she "sensed the dark spirit" reeks of omgspeshul powers. What dark spirit? I'm not even sure what that means. And finally one of my most hated of plot devices that happens with Sues a lot (but I just hate it in general): the girl disguising herself as a boy. The reason I dislike this as a plot device is quite simply because it's completely implausible for most girls who have hit puberty. Now you have the people she would be in close contact with aware of her actual gender so it's not as a bad as it could be, but still it hits a warning button. Also the flaws you listed aren't flaws. They're vaguely...weaknesses. All benders would be incapcitated by the attack Katara was hit with so it's not a specific weakness for Luna. That's like saying someone's weakness is if they get stabbed through the heart they'll die. Of course they will. When you say her humeri are broken, do you mean that she's actually had them broken or that she'd be disabled if they were broken? (Also nitpick, what we refer to as a "funny bone" is not a bone at all but a nerve near your elbow. Not to be confused with the long bone in her bicep aka the humerus.) Because that would the same deal with not being a weakness particular to her as with the pressure points. Also, how she would react to the death of a loved one isn't really a weakness in the traditional sense either. It's just...how she would react. And if you're saying that she'll actually go into some literal sort of fugue state or something and her powers will go out of control then that's again in Sueish territory since we've seen nothing like that from anyone but the Avatar.
Thiylan, porting the same character around from story to story is pretty much insurance that they're going to come off as a Sue because it pushes forward the idea that they're either a self-insert or you're overly attached to them. And really, how necessary is it to put the same character into everything that you like? And if you have to make major changes to them to make them fit making an entirely new character would probably easier and more creatively fulfilling.
Now I feel quite as though I have highjacked this thread...
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Post by almighty on May 4, 2006 1:57:40 GMT -5
^Gotterdammerung: Highjacking?? Nah... I like reviewing and giving critiques as well but I've never really worked on OCs and making it constructive critisism. Normally when I review OCs, I'm kinda mean when it comes to revealing the sueishness of the character...
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Angel Eyes
Koh
Okay. Who ate the cookies?
Posts: 5,111
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Post by Angel Eyes on May 4, 2006 6:03:49 GMT -5
Gotterdammerung, actually, I had kind of created her before I saw The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. I was just using him as a character reference, to tell more eloquently how she's like. Though I'll admit, not everyone would have watched it. ^.^
You are right about the ninja part though. I just read a samuri (sp?) story and I was inspired by it. I forgot that ninjas thrive on secrecy. dang, gotta rewrite by character...
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on May 4, 2006 7:18:00 GMT -5
Oh I wasn't saying that you'd necessarily copied the character. I just work under the idea that when you're creating it's always best to be able to describe the things in your original work in your own terms without drawing comparisons from other works. Mainly because actually putting in the effort to describe or explain something in your own words not only forces you to think about things thoroughly instead of shorthanding them, it gives you practice as a writer as well.
Heh. Well, I used to regularly report Sues in various fandoms, even ran a report journal myself for quite some time, so I know about being mean about Sues (and the urge to be so). However, cultivating the skill of concrit (as opposed to outright mockery) for when people honestly ask for assistance is something I worked on very hard. Concrit is like my favourite thing ever. I love giving it, I love getting it and I cannot comprehend anyone who writes (or draws or whatevers!) that does not want it!
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Angel Eyes
Koh
Okay. Who ate the cookies?
Posts: 5,111
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Post by Angel Eyes on May 4, 2006 7:27:17 GMT -5
Well then, I need to practice more writing. I'm just too lazy. ^.^ My ideas about her keep changing, so its hard for me to lay down a concrete personality for her yet. I might even delete her and start another new character from scratch. I pretty much am a perfectionist and it'll take days, even months for me to finally come up with a character I don't feel unhappy with. Which of course, frustrates...
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Post by cinnebon on May 4, 2006 8:15:42 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't mention,those characters are for a totally different fic. I only have to characters for my one . I just wanted to see if my other characters were sues or not. Some of those things that make them sues in one show make them normal in another show. Thanks
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
Posts: 969
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Post by Gotterdammerung on May 4, 2006 8:28:45 GMT -5
Well, as with most things, the best way to practice writing is...to write. There are as many different ways of writing as there are people, but maybe if you keep getting stuck on developing characters you should try developing a plot and then deciding what kind of character fits best into it. Or what might also work is to just start writing with your general ideas in place and let the character take shape organically.
cinnebon, the fact that what makes a Sue changes from fandom to fandom is why you're never going to get an accurate read as far as whether your characters from other fandoms are Sues here. There's a general Mary Sue Litmus test that can be taken, but the best option would be to ask people who are actually in that fandom.
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Post by cinnebon on May 4, 2006 8:56:11 GMT -5
I don't think I should have asked here but but it was nice to know what not to turn them into. I have been writing a little with my avatar characters, And am just starting with the other ones. Heres Myya Kita, Suri Wei and Allae Ushi
This is my character. Myya Kita Age- 16
Bender- Fire
Weapon- light, metal Bo staff. She doesn't use it much.
Nation- Fire. Her grandparents had friends in the other nations when they were kids. She sent Myya to the southern water tribe were she met Allae and Suri.
Appearance- Light brown hair that's a little past her shoulders. She has golden eyes and skin that's a bit pale. She also has a Fire nation symbol scar on her right arm, courtesy of her little sister Zalee (Thought it would be funny). She's about 5ft 4 in.
Clothes- A red, short sleeved shirt that has a diagnal cut at the bottom. Black pants and red slip on shoes. She also has a necklace made of black ribbon with a golden fire nation symbol in the middle.
Personality- Very immature for her age although she tries to act like a young lady. On the other hand, She gets aggitated easily and likes to do it herself unless she's failing horribly. Myya has a horrible habit of cheating and doesn't pay attention to things she doesn't want to hear.
A friend's character. Suri Wei
Age-17
Bender- Water
Nation- Water
Appearance- Dark brown hair with tan skin. Suri has light blue eyes and is 5ft. 3 in.
Clothes- light blue tank top like shirt, and dark blue skirt with pants under it. Tan boots. Suri has a jade like necklace with a moon and waves infront of the moon.
Personality-She's very compassionate and kind when it comes down to it. Can fight when she needs to although she would rather be on defense than offense. Learing the art of healing and really likes it. Suri doesn't like when people are constantly mopey and "blah" like.
A differnet friend's characters. She doesn't really use her anymore. Allae Ushi
Age: 15
Personality: Happy, but covers that up with sarcasm. She loves to sit aorund and read/mediatate
Height: 5'6"
Hair: light brown, 3" past waist.
Eyes: green
Kindom: Earth
Skills: Good with swords (double), a bit of Earhtbending
Clothes: Green long sleeved shirt with scratch marks in it. She loves her shirt and likes the cuts that go with it. Black pants and weathered leather like boots.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on May 4, 2006 9:47:24 GMT -5
Thank so much for the advice Gotterdammerung! I tweaked them up a bit from your advice and on the tall thing well I come from a very tall fmily so they didn't seem tall to me but I fixed them.
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jadawulf
Teo
stark raving sane
Posts: 438
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Post by jadawulf on May 4, 2006 13:40:10 GMT -5
Alright, I’m gonna review cinnebon’s characters. I’ll try not to ask for more detail, which I tend to do with profiles ^^; Myya KitaThe first thing that stands out is the part about her grandparents having friends in the other nations. Thing is, there’s been a war going on for 100 years, so it’s unlikely that her grandparents would become “traitors” by befriending these people. I know this may be considered nitpicking, but firebenders typically have dark hair, not light brown. And the scar? First off, how could her sister possibly think that it would be funny? Just what did she do? Second, a scar in the shape of a Fire Nation symbol is flat-out bizarre; it makes me wonder what could have possibly left such a lasting imprint in that shape. I’m actually pleased with the personality because it doesn’t seem like you were trying to make her liked by everyone. Suri WeiI have a problem with the tank top for two reasons: 1) it’s cold where waterbenders live, and 2) women in the Ava-world are dressed modestly. Does she live in the Southern Water Tribe? If so, then she can’t be a bender, seeing as how Katara was the last of her tribe. Does she have any flaws, personality-wise? Also, judging by the fact that she “doesn't like when people are constantly mopey and "blah" like,” I get the impression that she’s the type of person who is constantly smiling and peppy or something. Is this the case? Allae UshiSarcasm is typically used to cover up feelings of self-consciousness or as a defense mechanism, not to cover up feelings of happiness. That just strikes me as odd. As for the sword, I would recommend specifying what type of sword because just a plain old sword gets repetitive (people use it all the time, I swear). For instance, she could have a katana or a tanto. Just saying… I’m not clear on what is meant by “scratch marks” on her shirt. And as if this post isn’t long enough, I’ll include some OCs of my own. But instead of posting them here and taking up more space, I’ll give you the link to them. Here is Kura and Naoko. Looking back, I could have done a lot better with Kura; her physical appearance isn’t that descriptive, and I should have included more of her childhood. And of course I have that horrible habit of never describing the parents (not enough, anyways ><). Meh, oh well.
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Post by tiaramaki on May 4, 2006 15:50:27 GMT -5
Hok, Luna does seem a bit Sueish. The major reasons for this are the fact that she's a girl and was taught waterbending in the northern tribe even though she had to have learned before Katara came along (and even then there's no solid indication that Pakku actually made an exception for anyone but Katara, but that's pretty easy to assume either way). If Pakku found out about Aang trying to teach Katara and dismissed him as a student for it, why would anything different have happened with her and her father? Also, learning swordfighting seems extraneous. Plus, the whole thing where she "sensed the dark spirit" reeks of omgspeshul powers. What dark spirit? I'm not even sure what that means. And finally one of my most hated of plot devices that happens with Sues a lot (but I just hate it in general): the girl disguising herself as a boy. The reason I dislike this as a plot device is quite simply because it's completely implausible for most girls who have hit puberty. Now you have the people she would be in close contact with aware of her actual gender so it's not as a bad as it could be, but still it hits a warning button. Also the flaws you listed aren't flaws. They're vaguely...weaknesses. All benders would be incapcitated by the attack Katara was hit with so it's not a specific weakness for Luna. That's like saying someone's weakness is if they get stabbed through the heart they'll die. Of course they will. When you say her humeri are broken, do you mean that she's actually had them broken or that she'd be disabled if they were broken? (Also nitpick, what we refer to as a "funny bone" is not a bone at all but a nerve near your elbow. Not to be confused with the long bone in her bicep aka the humerus.) Because that would the same deal with not being a weakness particular to her as with the pressure points. Also, how she would react to the death of a loved one isn't really a weakness in the traditional sense either. It's just...how she would react. And if you're saying that she'll actually go into some literal sort of fugue state or something and her powers will go out of control then that's again in Sueish territory since we've seen nothing like that from anyone but the Avatar. Few things to point out. 1.) By Luna going berserk means she doesn't have that glowing thingy. Nu-uh. More like when like there's some auto-berserk magic when someone dies in Final Fantasy VIII by having an all-party attack and the ststus attacks inflict berserk to one, two or all char. Leave out the 'whole body turning red' thing. I hate having Berserk as a status in FF games. She goes all-out, kinda like when Rayne has that 'state' when she has extera power and she can control her body. Only Luna doesn't have control, and the effect lasts five minutes. Her powers don't get out of control, it's her body. It's like when you hit someplace on someone's body, a reaction starts. 2.) The "Dark Spirit" refers to Hydao's actions. Which means like destroying property, robbing, etc. Hydao tried to abduct Luna just to get her away from Tsen. Tsen found out and tried to free her, and Luna was awake when Hydao abducted her. Therefore, Hydao left from the NP to fight with the FN since he didn't get what he wanted. In other words, he was a spoiled little brat. 3.) I didn't see the eppy, so how did I know about it? WHy, oh why didn't my mom get us cable for ONCE!! !?!? It's starting to tick me off. 4.) Two words: Fur parkas. She wears enough so that it looks like she's a man. Also, the point of learning combat is a point of non-waterbending-self-defence. 5.) Since waterbending can't kill people (unless you drown them in water), she must find to fight another way. That's one flaw I didn't find out until just now. Her humerus gets broken, that's it. She can't fight. Another one is her hair. She runs, you pull it, she's trapped. She's sometimes not that good of a runner. I don't think I had to use the list. I'm sorry about that. We all know that having our OCs be Sues ticks us off sometimes, but it pains me to see a big stinkin' paragraph about it. I'm not starting any arguements here.
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Post by writer on May 4, 2006 16:34:59 GMT -5
^ I hate when people defend there sues <<
Thats for the advice. I will probably give some for info on Toramaru, Natsuko and Sumomo which is Soba's family. As for personality. He's pretty normal. The only personality flaw I can think of for him is that he's a risk taker and thrillseeker.
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Post by cinnebon on May 4, 2006 16:53:29 GMT -5
Thank you jadawulf. Myya's sister idolizes Azula. So she takes the "evil" thing way past where it should be. She knew that Myya wasn't pro war, so she decided to remind her where she comes from and who shes ment to obey. Her grandmother's Mom had friends in other "kingdoms." She wanted to make sure Machia (grandmother) remembered those bonds with other benders. Machia grew up knowing that the war was bad and she shouldn't go along with it. Machia has tried to escape from the fire nation, but since she was married at a young age her husband stopped her from doing that. Myya grew up on what her grandmother learned as a child.
Suri is pretty calm, shes not a happy peppy freak. Suri's outfit isn't ment to be revealing the neck line is high and the tank goes to her mid thigh.
And Allae can actually be pretty shy. From what I know of her she's doesn't like to openly show her happieness. Scrtch marks, ya know, like heer shirt has been cut up by branches and from her practicing with her Kantana. I pretty sure my friend said it was Kantana.
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