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Post by Musogato on Nov 15, 2013 23:36:47 GMT -5
Because of a reblog challenge on Korra Nation, the final two episodes will be released online a week early, ie tonight at midnight. So discussion for episode 14 and the season finale for Book 2, Light in the Dark, goes here.
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Lady Ursa
Warrior Sokka
Rabid Zutarian
Posts: 777
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Post by Lady Ursa on Nov 16, 2013 16:17:25 GMT -5
Just finished watching and fortunately didn't have any playback issues for the final scenes! Hohkay so there's a lot to talk about... the Dark Avatar was briefly a thing but assuming that he was killed while in the Dark Avatar state, there won't be a cycle of regeneration. Of course Vaatu will show up again, but it's the circle of life.
I kinda don't like the way the season ended but it leaves room for so much to happen in future seasons. I'm saddened that Korra's ties to her previous lives was severed, but I would love to watch more origin stories. I love the Tree of Time concept and I was totally rooting for Jinora in the end!
And Korra's breakup with Mako, well, given the love triangle with Asami, I think it's appropriate.
(Sorry that was all out of order but there's just so much to discuss!)
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Post by nymphadora on Nov 17, 2013 2:07:24 GMT -5
Just finished the final four episodes. I'm not sure if it's because I've grown out of the Avatar world or if this series is a lot more shoddily done, but I find myself cringing and groaning more often than laughing and gasping. The entire final battle felt like a cluster****of glowing spirit lights. I admittedly wasn't entirely focusing on the episode, but I could not accept any of that as logical. (Logical in Avatar terms, of course. ) For example, when Aang went into the Avatar State in SotN and turned into Koizilla, his body didn't grow. Instead the water formed around him. Whereas Unalaq/Vaatu just morph into this giant spirit creature? I don't like it. My other major issue - and it's the same problem I had with season one - is that none of the major storylines will carry over to the next season. Book One: Meet Tarrlock and Amon, defeat Tarrlock and Amon. Book Two: Meet Unalaq, defeat Unalaq. They even kill all the villains so there's not even a possibility of their return! I wasn't a fan of book one's storyline, but I think if this book's storyline arced over multiple seasons, it would've been comparable to A:TLA. I've always found the adults quite childish, especially compared to Iroh, Pakku, Zhao, Gyatso, etc., and the younger characters to be flat as hell, but I ended up loving Jinora! Why can't next season be about her?! Bring back Lin Bei Fong too! Korra and Tenzin are major drags. This is all coming out so negative, but it's late, I'm cranky, and I really can't bring myself to find any positives. It's all been so rushed, rushed, rushed, forced, forced, forced. Always working towards an end instead of appreciating the journey. "You gotta focus less on the where and more on the going." Edit: for language, c'mon! no f-bombs please.
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Post by Sir Nose D'Voidoffunk on Nov 17, 2013 10:53:33 GMT -5
My other major issue - and it's the same problem I had with season one - is that none of the major storylines will carry over to the next season. Book One: Meet Tarrlock and Amon, defeat Tarrlock and Amon. Book Two: Meet Unalaq, defeat Unalaq. They even kill all the villains so there's not even a possibility of their return! I wasn't a fan of book one's storyline, but I think if this book's storyline arced over multiple seasons, it would've been comparable to A:TLA. Uhmm (boxed spoilers, just in case we're doing that): Maybe I just watched the show wrong, but I think it takes a pretty liberal interpretation of the ending to conclude that Unalaq was defeated at the end of Book Two.
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Post by nymphadora on Nov 17, 2013 13:55:25 GMT -5
(I don't think spoiler tags are necessary in the episode discussion? Correct me if I'm wrong!)
Okay, that's a fair point. It was way less definitive than Tarrlock and Amon, that's for sure. I took Vaatu/Unalaq's glowing red figure exploded into golden sparkles as the end of both Vaatu and Unalaq. It could have just been Vaatu leaving Unalaq's body and Unalaq fled from the scene, and the return of Unalaq next season could either be great or terrible.
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Post by Sir Nose D'Voidoffunk on Nov 17, 2013 15:03:56 GMT -5
Could be that they're not necessary: I haven't logged on in a while, and I'm not up to speed on all of this forum's etiquette. I figured, better safe than sorry since, even though the episodes have been released online, they still haven't been broadcast in the US, and streaming online isn't a viable option for everyone (my own P.O.S. desktop seized up twice while I was watching it).
My interpretation of the ending leans more towards the Vaatu/Unalaq composite being ascending into "godhood" (or, at least beyond the limits of Unalaq's physical form), and heading off to remake the world in his/its image. The notion of that being the end of him/it/them never even crossed my mind. I do expect Vaatu to double-cross Unalaq at some point during Book Three, though.
I'd like Book Three to be what Book Two should have been about, but really wasn't, IMO: Korra on a journey to connect with her spiritual side and re-fuse with Raava. I also fully expect that, despite that, and Team Avatar rallying support from around the globe to combat the Dark Avatar, none of it will actually work, but that there will nonetheless be some sort of Deus ex Machina in the season finale that enables Korra to defeat the Dark Avatar singlehandedly.
Hopefully there will, at least, be some form of soul searching on Korra's part, as she attempts to re-discover the locus of her identity, since I imagine that, without being fused with Raava, she's just a waterbender. I'd like to see them devote at least one episode to Korra having to define herself as a person who is not the Avatar: they had a chance to do that in Book One, after Amon took away her bending, but they dropped the ball on that. Maybe they'll get it right this time.
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Post by Sir Nose D'Voidoffunk on Nov 17, 2013 15:48:16 GMT -5
Hrmm... After re-reading your response, and some comments from a different forum, now I'm starting to wonder whether or not the version I saw had the end cut off, or something? In the version I saw (on Nick.com, I might add), the last thing that happened before the end credits was Vaatu/Unalaq saying, "Ten thousand years of darkness begins," and then going all Super Saiyan. Was that not the actual end?
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Post by Sir Nose D'Voidoffunk on Nov 17, 2013 17:56:34 GMT -5
So, upon further investigation, I have discovered that what I'd thought was the end of Light in the Dark was simply the end of Darkness Falls, and that there was a whole other episode after what I thought was the last one. So... yeah...
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Nov 19, 2013 4:09:11 GMT -5
Woah woah woah, Mr. Triple Post - there's an edit button so please try and use that in the future [unless you're bumping a thread] There was a lot going on in the end of the season that left me emotional and nervous, excited for the new season, and a bit confused or annoyed. Firstly, a lot of great climatic buildups between Vaatu escaping (as I expected), but a good fight after Korra ejected Unalaq from the spirit world... I liked seeing Bumi put a plan together as well, and I enjoyed seeing Tenzin come to terms with expectations of himself (accepting he should live up to his own potential, not some notion of what Aang may have/could have/did want from him) and deciding to become his own person. I thought that Korra and Mako's "definite" breakup was handled quite gracefully and practically as well (especially admitting to always loving one another). I had a really big knot in my stomach though as the connections to all the previous Avatars were being destroyed through the Dark Avatar. tbh I've always kind of hated that Korra's never really ever convened or connected with any of her past lives except on a few very VERY rare occasions; but maybe that's what makes this an opportunity for a really big change of pace. Now Korra is unburdened by any of the past lives and is able to forge a new path, as she said in the concluding scene. I'm also hopeful for the new season. I did see that someone mentioned the book will be called "Connections". I'm hoping we can finally honestly see the Earth Kingdom and the Fire Nation (and Zuko and his daughter - COME ON ALREADY), and I'm wondering if it has to do anything with perhaps Korra attempting to reconnect with her past lives? Would be interesting, but I suppose only serve to discount whatever happened in this finale as well. I'm also hoping that there's no Asami/Mako. If there's no rekindling of Korra and Mako (yet, or ever - though I suspect they will be endgame), that's okay, but I really just think everyone needs to mellow out on the love interests, and ugh let's please go to the Fire Nation already and Ba Sing Se and things lollllll. Maybe also Kyoshi Island while we're at it!!! Also hoping that Korra will communicate with Raava more; I think that would be a really interesting dynamic and a great opportunity for her to communicate with the light spirit regularly on her path to restore balance and peace; of course, I'm also curious to see in what ways the balance of the earth was shifted during the HC that Korra stated feeling in her final speech. The biggest thing that confused me was Jinora. I'm so confused with what light thing she did with Korra during her battle with Vaatu/Unalaq. All I know is she did some sort of magical light show and then Raava reappeared inside Vaatu, but Vaatu disappeared? ? Ugh what? Subtitles please!!! nymphadora: Okay, I think the big difference here though is Vaatu is a much more powerful spirit than the Koi fish spirit though, and the idea is the nature of Vaatu is to be dark and monstrous. Vaatu IS darkness, so when Unalaq fused, he became a monster of darkness and chaos. There's not exactly that kind of element that's going to wrap around him the way water will (unless we want to start bring astrophysics into this). I also think the "cluster****" of spirits battling you speak of is supposed to be exactly representative OF what Vaatu represents - chaos, disaster, war, darkness... if Vaatu succeeds, that's what happens. Period. I understand why Book 1 was done the way it was (it wasn't renewed until s1 of LoK was written, I believe), but I'm curious as to why you say none of the major storylines will carry over? There does have to be some kind of overlapping between seasons to create continuity. I do agree having each baddie eliminated to prevent him from resurfacing as an antagonist (and giving Korra new challenges to face), does make it finite, but there's a lot of things that will obviously have to carry over in order to make the flow of the story more logical. So that's not the case... entirely, I don't think. Eh, I think you have a weird impression of how adults "should" be then! I found Zhao to be quite 1 dimensional, tbh. Maybe perhaps, more interesting, or more sinister, but idk. But in my honest opinion adults - especially adult siblings - aren't always super mature. I think Kya, Bumi, and Tenzin acted quite a lot how my father and his sisters act - and they're all in their 50s. Getting older doesn't always mean growing up, and I think all of the adults can provide wisdom, guidance, and advice while also reflecting the fact they're merely human and do have insecurities, doubts, and frustrations. If anything, I think Lin Beifong was quite 1 dimensional this season... Not really sure why you think Korra is a drag either; I didn't like her at the beginning of the season, but she had a tremendous amount of growth and development this season and I've come to actually like her a fair bit. I think she's a really dynamic character and really interesting, especially when placed alongside Aang.
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Post by Alouncara on Nov 19, 2013 20:34:04 GMT -5
Perhaps it's too early to start speculating for Book 3, but I already have some ideas churning through my head. Which I personally find really exciting because there was not much room left for speculation after Book 1.
I also thought the part where her past lives were separated from her was heart wrenching. But I think that her connection to them was broken, not that the actual spirits were destroyed. It makes me wonder if they could potentially have he go on a journey to find and reconnect with those spirits? Or if they want to forge new ground, and set her apart from the Avatars of the past?
I feel like a lot of the next book or 2 will consist of balancing the world between people and spirits. Unlike what it has been for the past 10,00 years. Where the Avatar tried primarily to balance people with people. (That's not to say Avatars of the past didn't balance the relationships between spirits and people. Aang had a few occasions where he did. But I think we'll see it to a much greater extent than it has been in the past because of the portals being open).
At the same though, there are a lot of rumors floating around about Book 3 that involve a lot of characters. Apparently Lin is supposed to play a bigger role. I've also heard that it might be set more in the Earth Kingdom. And Grey DeLisle has confirmed that she will be playing a character in Book 3.
I also think that Vaatu will arise again. Raava made a point of stating that one cannot exist without the other.
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Leaf
Gran Gran
Posts: 585
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Post by Leaf on Nov 20, 2013 20:09:34 GMT -5
Surely there has to be people who do not support the Avatar's decision to keep the portals open for the spirits to freely come and go into their world. Could this lead to another Equalist type of movement where humans want to rid the world of spirits even relying on support from spirits who feel the same way about humans in their world?
How does Avatar Roku feel about being able to freely crossover to the mortal world when he is often portrayed as an old fashioned segregationist in the comics (which if I recall correctly are considered canon)? This is assuming that past Avatar's spirits are not bound to the current's. Of course, Roku might have died when Raava was destroyed by Vaatu.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Nov 21, 2013 0:40:46 GMT -5
I would agree that some do not agree with Korra's decision, but how it plays out will be interesting, especially because it's not just spirits in the mortal world - it's mortals in the spirit world, too.
I'm not sure if past Avatar spirits would be able to communicate beyond the Avatar, actually? I don't really remember anyone ever communicating with past lives except for the Avatar him/herself, and I believe that Tenzin "seeing" Aang, was more of a mental projection he created - not the actual spirit of Aang, if that makes sense?
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Leaf
Gran Gran
Posts: 585
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Post by Leaf on Nov 21, 2013 8:09:35 GMT -5
But does that not mean there is an Avatar hangout in the spirit world where Aang and Wan pal around?
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Post by Alouncara on Nov 21, 2013 9:28:59 GMT -5
Maybe? I like to think that Korra's connection to the past Avatars was severed, but that their spirits are still intact. So it's definitely possible that they are "hanging out" together.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Nov 22, 2013 9:14:51 GMT -5
I don't think it's ever really been addressed if there is a "Heaven" or "Hell" in the Avatar-verse, to be honest. So far, any individuals encountered in the spirit world are either there by choice (ie, Iroh), spirits themselves, or trapped against their will in the Valley of Lost Souls (Jinora). From what I understood from Iroh, he himself CHOSE to go to the Spirit World when he sensed he was nearing his time of death approximately 40 years before the current events, and most people lack the ability to make that kind of choice. So it does sort of beg the question what happens to those who die, but I don't think they pal around in the Spirit World; for example, in highly spiritual areas (like the Swamp), Katara believed she saw her mother. But I believe it was a projection, sort of like pyreflies and memories in the Farplane for those of you who played the FFX series - same for Tenzin. I don't think he actually communicated with Aang, just his projection of Aang.
Furthermore, I don't believe in reincarnation, thusly I don't understand a tremendous amount about it, but I don't think that it would mean your past lives are all chilling at the local afterlife pub laughing about that "one time." I suppose we all hope that Korra is able to reconnect with her past lives, but from what I understand of reincarnation, it's the same soul being eternally reborn into a new flesh - so the "soul" or "consciousness," which is usually what's considered to pass on, never gets to make it to that particular haven. The differences in personality and outlook usually stem from difference in how you are brought up, be it time, culture, sex/gender, etc. - you get the idea. So therefore then, the entirety of these consciousnesses/past lives are completely connected to the soul they are part of (Korra)...
tl;dr version: no I don't think there's a place past lives of the Avatar are just hanging out since I believe they were effectively destroyed when Raava was destroyed.
PS: if anyone aside from the Avatar has been able to DIRECTLY communicate with an Avatar's past life without the presence of the Avatar as a conduit (Roku speaking through Aang) or intermediary (Korra telling what Kyoshi said), please let me know.
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