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Post by Blind Bandit on Nov 6, 2008 19:22:13 GMT -5
My take on this issue (gay marrage and gay rights).
Who someone marries, has sex with or loves is none of my or anyone's business.
If you don't support gay marriage that's fine. But you have no right to tell someone else who is not you how to marry or love.
I think people need to remember any religious group can marry whom ever they want and turn away who ever they want.
Thats fine but when the government gets inovled then it becomes a problem.
Oh and to get back to what Horyo said.
Sadly there are still a lot of people who don't seem to understand that this is none of their business and there religion is not law. But I'm hoping things will get better. I'm doubtful but very hopefully.
This is America after all and I would hope we would be more forward facing on this issue.
Until the opponents of the this basic right really look at this issue openly, things will not change.
There is a lot ignorance , misinformation and propaganda to wade through.
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Post by mike1921 on Nov 6, 2008 19:27:26 GMT -5
I heard that churches will lose their tax exempt statuses if they turn people away so they really can't. BUt I think that's a good thing, on both ends.
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Post by Blind Bandit on Nov 6, 2008 19:29:57 GMT -5
I heard that churches will lose their tax exempt statuses if they turn people away. But I think that's a good thing. Hmm that's interesting I've not seen that yet. But its definitely something I will have to check and I agree.
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Grandi
Bato
Prince of All Cosmos
Posts: 603
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Post by Grandi on Nov 6, 2008 19:31:21 GMT -5
Churches won't lose their tax exempt status. They are not required by law to marry anyone.
I agree and disagree with that, I don't think churches should be tax exempt in the first place, however I do believe in religious freedoms and free speech.
So in essence I have no problem with churches turning away gay couples, and I think that all of them should have their tax exempt status revoked regardless of their stance on marriage.
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Post by username on Nov 6, 2008 19:44:07 GMT -5
Churches refusing to marry gay couples = Alright
Prop 8 = bullsh*t.
One of my primary problems with the republicans is their obsession with actively enforcing their beliefs on others.
I'm not going to go much into this because everything I have to say has been said before, but really there is no legitimate argument for a ban on gay marriage.
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Post by mike1921 on Nov 6, 2008 20:22:23 GMT -5
That's not their problem, their problem is that they believe that too many..............ALL of their beliefs should be enforced on others. They should realize the difference between beliefs you should enforce on others through law and those you shouldn't. Any belief you have solely for religious purposes is in the former category
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Splendi
Combustion Man
I've lost my place but I can't stop this story..
Posts: 5,664
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Post by Splendi on Nov 6, 2008 21:54:26 GMT -5
This is the way the flags were flying at AIDS Walk LA: LinkThis is how they should stay. *Shrug* I'm glad it passed. It's incredibly sad when in some schools in California words like "Mother" or "Father" are not to be said in order to not bring offense to those who have gay or lesbian parents. Having gone to California schools my entire life I can say that this is definitely not the case. Si si. I've been in the California public school system all my life and never has that happened. Should you have gay or lesbian parents, that's you. It's still considered normal to have opposite sexed parents, therefore that's the language they use (although I know about 50 to 70 same sexed couples and their children). They're not going to stop using "mother and father" just because someone has a single parent or two of the same. Prop 8.. outrageous. Whatever your views on marriage, it's not right to eliminate rights and violate the fourteenth amendment for others. Have the option open. The opposition for 8 was ridiculous.. That they'll teach children about same sex marriage?? I can never ever recall being taught marriage at all in my public elementary school. The superintendent of California schools even said that it's not being taught. Seperation of Church and State anyone..? There was a huge protest in Westwood today (and it's still going on now), that I unfortuantly could not attend because of school and marching band, but I did stay slient yesterday. I'm staying silent Friday too, I believe.. Night of Noise is around 7 that night. Protest!! Our rights are our rights, and NO ONE can take those away! A few pictures for you consideration from AIDS Walk (that I took) and the 8 protests (that others took): These men came to cheer us AIDS Walkers on. (Credit me) Protests (Cred Michele P.) Protests (Cred Michele P.) Protests (Cred Michele P.) Protests (Credit Nikole C.) You can't amend love.
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
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Post by Horyo on Nov 6, 2008 22:42:43 GMT -5
Churches are private institutions and completely separate from Government.
hence, separation of church and state.
I'm not sure why they would lose their Tax Exempt if they refuse to marry Gay couples. 'Sides, there are churches which do marry gay couples, so there's not much of a big deal there.
The thing about children being taught about Gay marriage.
I call BS.
I've attended public school all my life, and never was I taught about marriage. It was a non-issue,.
I'm more upset to see the Supporters for Prop 8 spewing lies and inciting fear/hatred in the hearts of others, and then seeing them win through that.
Is nothing sacred?
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Post by Lt. Dan on Nov 7, 2008 8:57:38 GMT -5
Protest!! Our rights are our rights, and NO ONE can take those away! I lub you splendi. How many times do we have to say it? You all can think and say whatever you want, BUT DON'T EXPECT TO LEGISLATE IT. Also, be tolerant of other's lifestyles and choices. Freedom to choose plz. ... brb, joining Libertarian party.
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Post by Blind Bandit on Nov 7, 2008 9:26:00 GMT -5
Protest!! Our rights are our rights, and NO ONE can take those away! I lub you splendi. How many times do we have to say it? You all can think and say whatever you want, BUT DON'T EXPECT TO LEGISLATE IT. Also, be tolerant of other's lifestyles and choices. Freedom to choose plz. ... brb, joining Libertarian party. I think we will have to keep saying it until people realize it to be true.
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Post by mike1921 on Nov 7, 2008 12:15:36 GMT -5
Doesn't matter anyway. Some say parents want to incite "certain values" into their children's lives and schools teaching them about gay marriage would ruin that. ( If you want to have those kind of values given to your kid the state should take your child away) To those a-holes, do you want schools to stop teaching math or the civil rights movement (in a positive light anyway) incase you're a filthy hick who thinks math is bad or civil rights are bad? Do you think it would've been bad to start teaching civil rights immediately after they existed (I don't know if they did and I don't care)? The church was against civil rights back then just as much as they're against gay rights now.
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Post by goten0040 on Nov 7, 2008 13:11:45 GMT -5
I totally agree with your first statements, BB. It's really no one's business. I've had so many people quote the Bible at me and how "God destroyed a village because of the gays, blah blah blah." Well, I can quite easily quote a COMMANDMENT - "Thou shalt not judge less ye be judged."
It's irritating. Seperation of church and state. People need to remember that.
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Sheogorath
Kyoshi Azula
Lord of the Never-There
Yeah, an Avatard and a brony. Got a problem with that?
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Post by Sheogorath on Nov 8, 2008 0:38:36 GMT -5
The judges who overturned it didn't put it on the ballot. It was done by various religious groups through petitions, etc. That is very true. But the point I was trying to make was this: Why would the California State Supreme Court say that same gender marriage is legal when they knew full well that various religious institutions would try to get the Court's ruling overturned? The judges didn't put it on the ballot, you're right. But they had to have known that the various religious institutions would try that, rendering the Court's decision useless IF the proposition had passed, which it did. And like it's been stated earlier, no one really has the right to decide if two people of the same gender can marry or not. I claim neutrality, however, because while there are same gender couples who know not what's going to happen next, it was put in the hands of the citizens, and they made their decision. They didn't want it, so that's their prerogative. Those same gender couples who want to be officially married should move to Massachusetts or Hawaii. It's legal there, and none of the citizens have said anything to try to get it revoked as far as I know. But at the same time, everyone who campaigns to have same gender marriage be legal is just as guilty of trying to force others to see things their way as people trying to keep it illegal. I say this because think about it. On one side is a group saying "I like members of my own gender, and there's nothing you can do about it." and on the other, they're saying "It's not right!" Those who oppose homosexuality, most of them, are trying to paint homosexuals as vile, filthy, inhuman beasts. Those who are homosexuals, or at least support them, are trying to show ignorant people that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. Morally speaking, it's actually immoral to try to make people see something some way when they don't want to.
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
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Post by Horyo on Nov 8, 2008 1:53:44 GMT -5
^That doesn't necessarily give the people who choose not to see it the right to eliminate rights.
The judges, I believe, overturned prop 22 (which passed 8 years ago) because it included limits on Civil Unions in CA, as well as banning Gay Marriage. The judges ruled this unconstitutional and then permitted Gay marriage. The judges' main argument was that they were protecting minority rights rather than favoring majority opinion.
AKA civil rights.
The homosexual community only wanted rights denied to them, they weren't enforcing their beliefs on others. Similarly interracial marriage used to be illegal, barring black and latino couples from marrying anyone (from another race or the white race) in the state of California (and I believe other states as well).
(Ironically though, the black population in CA had a higher majority supporting Prop 8)
Btw Gay marriage isn't legal in Hawaii, it failed by a small margin some time ago, and there are at least three law suits against prop 8 being amended.
The supporters of prop 8 would have lost nothing had it failed. Besides, the people who campaigned for yes on prop 8 did a good job of spreading many many lies, especially about Californian education. There is actually a section in the Californian Constitution about parents deciding what their children should know about sexual orientation and that they ultimately have the right to control their child's education over the school.
Morally speaking, it's even more immoral to limit another group's rights, and to bring up lies to scare others.
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Sheogorath
Kyoshi Azula
Lord of the Never-There
Yeah, an Avatard and a brony. Got a problem with that?
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Post by Sheogorath on Nov 8, 2008 2:51:15 GMT -5
^That doesn't necessarily give the people who choose not to see it the right to eliminate rights. The judges, I believe, overturned prop 22 (which passed 8 years ago) because it included limits on Civil Unions in CA, as well as banning Gay Marriage. The judges ruled this unconstitutional and then permitted Gay marriage. The judges' main argument was that they were protecting minority rights rather than favoring majority opinion. AKA civil rights. The homosexual community only wanted rights denied to them, they weren't enforcing their beliefs on others. Similarly interracial marriage used to be illegal, barring black and latino couples from marrying anyone (from another race or the white race) in the state of California (and I believe other states as well). (Ironically though, the black population in CA had a higher majority supporting Prop 8) Btw Gay marriage isn't legal in Hawaii, it failed by a small margin some time ago, and there are at least three law suits against prop 8 being amended. The supporters of prop 8 would have lost nothing had it failed. Besides, the people who campaigned for yes on prop 8 did a good job of spreading many many lies, especially about Californian education. There is actually a section in the Californian Constitution about parents deciding what their children should know about sexual orientation and that they ultimately have the right to control their child's education over the school. Morally speaking, it's even more immoral to limit another group's rights, and to bring up lies to scare others. Maybe they weren't, but ignorance is bliss, or so they say. If the people don't want to recognize homosexual marriage, that's their choice. They're wrong to deny them the right to marry, I do agree on that, but it's a battle that neither side can win. As long as people are ignorant of such things, they'll resist any attempts of trying to show them something in one way or another. Anything you say for or against it as long as this remains true is... mere sophistry.
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