Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:26:29 GMT -5
Okay, i know we don't like to think good thoughts about Mai, but perhaps it wasn't her life she was afraid of? Perhaps she was thinking of her brother's well-being by making the decision she did? If she would've defied Azula right then, Azula would've most likely hurt Tom-Tom and i'm certain Mai knew that (Azula put Ty Lee's life in danger for not willingly following her at first, I can't image what she would've done to Tom-Tom if Mai would've did the same thing). She's a lot smarter than people want to give her credit for..... What bothers me about this assumption is that it's just that, an assumption. We were never shown anything before or after the scene that proved this, or even hinted at it. So for all we know, it isn't a fact. But let's assume it is, and that she was only concerned for her little brother's well being. Well, then wouldn't she still be concerned after, since she leaves before Aang returns Tom-Tom to his parents? For all she knows, Tom-Tom is still missing and a gang of Earth Kingdom rebels is holding him hostage. Who knows if they're even treating him right? Yet she never once, in the entire series so far, shows a single moment of concern for her brother. If she was so concerned for his life that she did not act against Azula, despite her tendency to do so when convenient to herself, then why didn't Tom-Tom's disappearance worry her one iota?
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:28:00 GMT -5
Didn't Zuko just do that...anyways, I would say the "foreshadowing" which I am to lazy to point out right now. But I don't think "betraying Azula" automatically means, that she'll actually go with Zuko or at least it would take a while.
There actually aren't many scenes with her and Tom-Tom. So "not once" seems like twice to 3 times, which isn't that much. I don't know why she wasn't worried though, she oculd have been, should could have not. Maybe she thought he wasn't in much harm. She learned how to mask her emotions, we can't see what she truly is thinking all the time, even Zuko points that out about her.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:31:37 GMT -5
hamburger, did you see my last couple posts? I replied to the "smashing Mai's character like a bug." Which I assure you, isn't my intention.
Anyway, it's late over here. I better be getting to bed. Thanks everyone for the debate, no hard feelings anywhere. After all, at the end, Mai's just a character.
Gnight everyone, pleasant Avatar-filled dreams...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 5:32:01 GMT -5
Believe what you want. Ty Lee int the beach, her mother in the return to Omashu and Tom-Tom in the same episode. But you admitted it could be neutrality, which I believe it is. [/quote]Thats right she's just a big blah like Zuko said.(sarcasm) Seriously she seems passionate with Zuko. Mai is a secondary character it take longer for those to develop give it time and maybe it'll become obvious to you too. On a lighter note I barely noticed your icon, I miss Ty lee too.
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:35:09 GMT -5
Yeah. I miss Ty Lee too. I hope we get more fight scenes with her.
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Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Dec 11, 2007 5:40:22 GMT -5
Okay, one last one, just to reply. >_< Likewise. And again, as I've already said... Mai argued with Zuko. She was angry at Zuko. It wasn't really ABOUT defending Ty Lee. It was about having an excuse to snap at Zuko, who she was still upset with. Because all Mai seems to care about is Zuko. Mai didn't show any concern for her mother in Return to Omashu. When her mother was crying and panicking, Mai offhandedly offered her fireflakes, like nothing was wrong, or like she didn't care that anything was wrong. A big comparison to how she treats Zuko's little bouts of self-hatred, isn't it? As for Tom-Tom, this is a moot point. Some people argue that she hesitated for his well being. Other people argue that she didn't care and let Azula go on with her plan anyway. Either way, Mai hasn't been shown to go out of her way for her baby brother. Nor did his disappearance and (as far as she knows, since she left before Aang returned Tom-Tom) never reappearing seem to bother her. Alright, fine. Even if it is neutrality, how does this show she is against the war? How does this show that she wants to do the right thing, even if it means defying her country? Simply put, it doesn't. It just means she has no opinion either way. The only times she has ever shown any kind of caring is around Zuko. Which brings us back to the earlier point, that Mai cares about nothing but Zuko. What's more, her scenes with Zuko are riddled with OOCness (for both of them) and cheesy lines. Not quality writing, at all... Ah, thank you! ^_^ Yes, she's only been in one episode the whole season. And it was pretty much just a fanservice episode. I miss Ty Lee. =( Anyway, gnight for real this time! Haha. I'm off to bed.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 5:40:44 GMT -5
Ah, but it's also an assumption to think she didn't care a thing for a brother. That "isn't a fact" either So one assumption deserves another ;p (but of course seeing that I said something good about Mai, it's nothing more than a silly assumption, while "Mai didn't care a thing for a brother!1!!1!! is the gospel truth ) Please....don't talk to me about making assumptions because you're doing the exact same thing Actually no, Tom-Tom was left in the care of the Avatar and his gaang. I sincerely doubt Mai thought that the Avatar was going to harm a little baby. Come the second half of season 3 and still hasn't mention her brother, you'll have an argument, but for now you don't. She was barely a secondary character in season 2 and so far in season 3, she's been with Zuko. So they hadn't the time yet to have Mai talk about Tom-Tom
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Dec 11, 2007 5:40:52 GMT -5
Mai is a secondary character it take longer for those to develop give it time and maybe it'll become obvious to you too. We've got 10 episodes left and she's not part of Zuko's story for the foreseeable future...which is the ONLY development she's had this season...I don't think it's going to happen... Let's just agree to disagree...this argument is getting us nowhere...we're just going to see what we see...
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:45:56 GMT -5
Well, I agree. I'm not sure if she doesn't care about the war, or something like "meh, whatever", dislikes it (although I have no proof that she actually hates it or whatever) or she is pro-war. But she never said anything about the war so no one can actually say she has an opinion on it. So we don't know if she has an opinion on it or not. I wouldn't know why she would betray Azula, probably from what we've seen now is her detaching herself from her (maybe Azula's done something bad, or she dislikes being her ally or something?), or some other reason we don't know about.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 5:47:55 GMT -5
heh, and what makes you think Mai's not going to be apart of Zuko's "story for the foreseeable future?"
Eh, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree because i'm almost over 100% certain that they will be together in the end........
*yawns* Okay it's 6:00 a.m. it's time for me get some sleep. We'll finish this tomorrow (or in my case, later on today xD)
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Post by hamburger on Dec 11, 2007 5:54:19 GMT -5
What would have been Mai's point to the show then? To be the only thing Zuko regretted to leave behind in the FN? To be a device to make Zuko stay so he could join the gaang in the half-season and not hight-tail right out of the FN? Doesn't seem right to me.
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nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
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Post by nandireya on Dec 11, 2007 6:08:11 GMT -5
heh, and what makes you think Mai's not going to be apart of Zuko's "story for the foreseeable future?" What makes you think she is? The gAang is inflated enough and I can't see her fitting in with them at all. Besides, what could she possibly bring to the group? And I'm not saying they won't end up together (I just don't want them too...but that's a whole different animal)...I'm just saying there's no guarantee that they will. Nothing is ever certain in this show.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 11:36:44 GMT -5
She doesn't have to be with the gaang to be apart of Zuko's story. There's still no guarantee that Zuko's going to join the gaang and even if he does, he still has his own separate story and his own fish to fry, and whether you like it or not MAI IS A BIG PART OF HIS STORY NOW.
Well, like i said i'm almost 100% sure. So that means nothing to me
There hasn't been much yet that's caught me completely by surprise, so i don't see this show as being all of that ambiguous and twist filled.
Of course it may be to some, but that's mostly because they set ridiculous standards for the show. People being so ticked and zomg! suprised!1! at Zuko's decision in CoD is proof of that (and i could also use Zuko/Mai not breaking up in the Beach)
Also this doesn't have to do with anything, but I've been hearing a lot of, "I feel bad for Mai" or "I feel bad for the Maiko shippers." LOL! DON'T. Feel sorry for the people who are so against Mai and Maiko because they're the one's hurting and will continue too
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Kyatto
Kyoshi Azula
Dance, magic dance!
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Kyatto on Dec 11, 2007 12:39:53 GMT -5
Obviously because Mai didn't break down and weep for her baby brother's safety she's a heartless witch. *Sarcasm is a beautiful thing*
Let's take a moment to think about Azula. This girl, in her first speaking appearance in the series, verbally threatened to throw her helmsman overboard just because he mentioned it'd be difficult to dock. Without even so much as batting an eye, might I add. I'm not counting her sympathetic feelings in "The Beach" because all of that contradicts what we've been shown of her so far. They even mentioned in a commentary that with the exception of revealing some background, and introducing Combustion Man to Aang's crew, that was mostly "just for fun". Sure, she could worry about impressing boys, but it's obvious she's more interested in power and perfection than love, making her the polar opposite of Aang anf them.
If Mai had shown any signs of hesitation, who knows how Azula would've reacted? Knowing her, and how she's written, she could've been all "Okay, go grab your brother. I don't care. It's only a powerful Earthbender King we're sacrificing." and then pulled a fast one. Why did Mai call the deal off? Ever hear the phrase "Killing two birds with one stone"? If they made it with both Bumi and Tom-Tom, it's an all out win for the girls. Azula never wanted to give up Bumi in the first place.
As for Mai not caring about whether or not her brother returned to her parents, that couldv'e been overlooked by timing. Les than thirty minutes to an episode. They chose rather to focus on Aang, despite all that's happened, he's still sympathetic to everyone and was the one to return Tom-Tom. Meanwhile, Azula delved about her plan, and they made sure to focus on the relationship between Zuko and Mai. Ty Lee said "Zuko", Mai, queen of "I don't care", smiled fondly. Game. Set. Match. The end. Timing. Not to point out an OMG-SHE'S-A-MURDEROUS-BABY-EATER flaw in her. I've worked in media. I know what goes on and the tedious irritation of choosing what to forgo when editing scripts and whatnot.
Couple episodes later, Zuko has his episode of Angst. He flashbacks like a trippy schizophrenic. What's one flashback we are shown? Other than the others, which were dedicated to showing the strong relationship between him and his mother and to show how even then he never lived up to his dad's expectations, when he was playing with the girls, what happens? He was Mai's knight in shining armor. Azula noticed Mai's blush. She decided to mess with her. Zuko, the doofus, falls for it. It shows Mai's liked him for a very long time.
I'd also like to point out that Mai has yet to kill anyone. The way she targets when she throws, she disarms, like Ty Lee. If she wanted to, she could kill someone, but she chooses not to. Does this sound like a cold, heartless, witch? No. Deep down she cares.
It's not that she doesn't have feelings, she just keeps them bottled up. Why? Her parents. I know several real girls just like her. When you have demanding parents with certain expectations of you, and who try to limit your personal and emotional freedom, it hurts. It's damaging. The fact she chooses to brush off the fact she's been hurt is the real problem. She says she doesn't care, but she does. Notice how in 309 she's a lot more open. What she suggested to Zuko? It wasn't her idea of fun. She was suggesting it because it was his. We haven't seen much of his palace behavior, but I bet he tried to cover up his emotional rollercoaster by doing what he thought he should. IE: riding around and bossing servants. He's helping her out of her shell. Am I the only one who saw her softer expression and adoring smile while she cuddled up with him on the couch?
Mai's been given a lot more development than she has credit for.
What effect will this have in the next batch of episodes? Obviously, they wouldn't have focused on the letter if nothing would come of it. They've been hinting at it for a long while that Mai would be the one to turn against Azula. She didn't go to be with Azula in the first place. She went because she was bored. Chances are, we will see her again, and it will be the most killer thing ever.
What abou Mai? She'll be back, and most likely, with a vengeance.
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Post by mindbender18 on Dec 11, 2007 13:24:20 GMT -5
and i can't wait for it
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