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Post by Ignite on Jul 6, 2008 7:40:01 GMT -5
I find it funny that your arguement gose from Several to few and then one of my friends. Even with that example you gave...most still become fans by watching television. I mean how did you became of a fan of avatar dragonflly... I know you didn't direct that question to me, but I do like to answer it. I've gotten to like avatar through friends and internet. We were in the train one day going to college and they suddenly started talking about avatar. I didn't really know what it was, so one of my friends showed some footage on his Ipod, AMV's that he made. I thought it looked nice. So when I came home I started searching for some more video's on youtube because I got intrigued. It was only after that, that I decided to watch an episode when I came across it one day. So, sure the episode proved to be the final push into me liking avatar, but if it weren't for my friends and youtube I'd never stopped to watch the episode in the first place. Which brings me to my point, and to add to Jalien's comment. I agree with you that TV is probably the most important media, but you're being narrow minded if you think other media's don't have a significant influence as well. It's a combination of all forms of media that provide people with enough inside that makes them form an opinion on a show. For example you watch an episode, you like it, you start looking for more footage and information about the show, etc. But ah well... it will probably come down to personal experience and preferences, like it usually does.
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silentxorchestra
Aang
Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars.
Posts: 54
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Post by silentxorchestra on Jul 6, 2008 11:00:09 GMT -5
I'd be more concerned about our right to privacy then deleted accounts. Viacom are going to know every video anyone on youtube has ever watched, our user names and IP addresses, they're being cooperate bullies.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Jul 7, 2008 2:21:34 GMT -5
I never doubted that the internet/new media dosen't have power just ask George Allen, but at the end of the day, it old media that still has majorty that have people coming back for more.
Still after reading all the arugment, It still a minorty of people that became fans of certain contents through user-generated matrials(just read the threads about how users here became fans of avatar)...Now I never stated that U.G.M. don't have influences. Just that at the current state, fans are still born from the televison set.
And Viacom is going after Google not users silentxorchestra.
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Post by chaobender482 on Jul 7, 2008 4:08:27 GMT -5
Well to explain this, lets say Viacom by doing this means they want to have enough money just to monopolize the TV market against Turner Broadcasting and NBC-Universal which of course seems to make Viacom feel like they are out of the picture.
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Post by Ignite on Jul 7, 2008 4:15:23 GMT -5
I never doubted that the internet/new media dosen't have power just ask George Allen, but at the end of the day, it old media that still has majorty that have people coming back for more. Still after reading all the arugment, It still a minorty of people that became fans of certain contents through user-generated matrials(just read the threads about how users here became fans of avatar)...Now I never stated that U.G.M. don't have influences. Just that at the current state, fans are still born from the televison set. And Viacom is going after Google not users silentxorchestra. haha, But we never said that you didn't. Even more so, we acknowledged your argument that TV is the biggest. But fact is, you opened your argument by saying that you think free advertisement is a joke. I'm just thinking that you're placing other media besides television, in a bit of a discredit with the image that you perceive. I was just trying to explain that the impact of before mentioned media are probably bigger then you make it out to be. What I do find slightly exasperating though, is that you ask who of us became fans through the internet and when you get several replies you just brush them aside. If you weren't going to listen in the first place, don't ask.
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Post by username on Jul 7, 2008 13:22:06 GMT -5
Regardless of the effectiveness of AMVs and such at garnering fans, the point is that we are still using footage owned by Viacom. Putting mediocre Linkin Park music over the footage doesn't make it no longer theirs, and Viacom doesn't want to be a part of youtube.
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tg
FN Toph
The mysterious lurker of Musogato
Posts: 1,684
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Post by tg on Jul 8, 2008 9:23:49 GMT -5
^ True. Like using a duplicate work of art and chopping it into pieces to make it as a fan tribute. Or scanning a page of manga is actually a copyright violation too. These days, some people put disclaimers on their vids saying they don't own anything. As much as Viacom wants fan vids wiped off the face of the earth, they'll keep coming back.
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Post by spiritmage234 on Jul 8, 2008 10:39:02 GMT -5
Well, the videos are theirs, I guess.
But it's just so frivilous. It's just fandom. If anything, they should be happy that so many people actually take the time to chop up the right moments of an episode to make a nice abridged music video, because they like the show so much (even though Viacom didn't even create the show; just own it).
In general, You Tube should be used for home made movies and the like, and you shouldn't be broadcasting full length movies and episodes of anything (support the show! buy the DVD(s)/watch on your 30" plasma screen w/surround sound!) so they do have a right to sweep full length episodes off. But then again, they shouldn't be broadcasting full length stuff on their own websites for free, in consideration for the writers (but since when are evil corporations considerate of the people who create the brainchildren who make them billions?). But anywho, it's free advertizing. I mean, if they're going to sweep every thing that bears the image of a character that they own, then what next? They'll sweep FF.net, DA.com, even if they have a disclaimer.
Just proves that so long as mega corporations can buy their way into manipulating the legal system, there is no justice or legality or whatever.
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Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
Posts: 2,572
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Post by Horyo on Jul 8, 2008 16:12:29 GMT -5
Regardless of the effectiveness of AMVs and such at garnering fans, the point is that we are still using footage owned by Viacom. Putting mediocre Linkin Park music over the footage doesn't make it no longer theirs, and Viacom doesn't want to be a part of youtube. Whether or not they "own" the videos, they really don't understand that what they're doing is stunting fandom and wasting time trying to eliminate fan stuff. Really, you'd think they'd spend more time into owning more company. Plus they can't stop it unless they own the internet.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 8, 2008 21:18:10 GMT -5
It really seems as if Viacom doesnt know what its doing. The only reason for a corporation to pursue a legal right is a commercial one. If Viacom were losing money because of the clips that be one thing but the majority of people dont watch the clips as an alternative to the tv viewings but a supplementle to it. Except for paying huge lawyer's fees, what does viacom expect to get out of this?
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Post by username on Jul 8, 2008 22:19:26 GMT -5
Regardless of the effectiveness of AMVs and such at garnering fans, the point is that we are still using footage owned by Viacom. Putting mediocre Linkin Park music over the footage doesn't make it no longer theirs, and Viacom doesn't want to be a part of youtube. Whether or not they "own" the videos, they really don't understand that what they're doing is stunting fandom and wasting time trying to eliminate fan stuff. Really, you'd think they'd spend more time into owning more company. Plus they can't stop it unless they own the internet. It's more of a legal issue than it is a moral issue. It's not like they went "hurr hurr lets be evul and be mean to our fans," it's about copy right laws. As for the "this is bad for them, they don't know what they're doing" idea, who knows more about copy rights and profits; the people who are employed by a high profile company specifically because of their knowledge regarding this, or the kid on the internet who jumps to conclusions after seeing only the most basic and obvious things relating to the issue?
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Jul 8, 2008 22:31:59 GMT -5
^ Well after the collapses of many high profile companies from Enron to Bear Stearns , my faith in high powered suits has taken some beating. I agree that its a legal issue and probably involves a lot more complex issues than were discussing here. Still, considering what these highly paid specialised suits are earning out of the collective nickels and dimes consumers cough up to their companies, they should be able to come up with a solution that addresses both their concerns and our complaints.
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fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Jul 9, 2008 1:53:00 GMT -5
I laugh...Google is a high profile company with powerfull suits as well. what make them speical...after all they censor stuff for china and on youtube as well...that not evil haha, But we never said that you didn't. Even more so, we acknowledged your argument that TV is the biggest. But fact is, you opened your argument by saying that you think free advertisement is a joke. I'm just thinking that you're placing other media besides television, in a bit of a discredit with the image that you perceive. I was just trying to explain that the impact of before mentioned media are probably bigger then you make it out to be. What I do find slightly exasperating though, is that you ask who of us became fans through the internet and when you get several replies you just brush them aside. If you weren't going to listen in the first place, don't ask. I love to know who else is in your arugment. make it sound like your a user of one of many. Do you have proof that user-generated creation make fans...cause it dosen't seem...note this, I didn't discredit the internet in general because you have company channel in youtube like Sony BMG, CBS, New York Times, Time Magazine. My argument is aginst the idea that AMS and user-creations that aren't "original" and why they should be protected. Also It be nice if you provided more info then just a "few friends" and..and maybe a background story and even witht that...I still believe in television make fans more...after all is Avatar an Internet Cartoon or an Television Series. I don't discredit you...It just what it still is. Just read the threads like: How many people over the age of 20 watch the show? or other thread that say how they became fans.
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tsuki
Sokka
Even after Avatar, lets make the world a better place!
Posts: 127
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Post by tsuki on Jul 9, 2008 14:59:15 GMT -5
Viacom is being a bit paranoid about this. I feel there is another video genicide coming soon.
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