Fizzywig
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Post by Fizzywig on Oct 6, 2007 20:08:43 GMT -5
Who here likes Prog Rock?
I mean i know i find it awesome, but who else on this board likes the smooth sound of experimental progressive rock?
You dont know what Prog Rock is you say? have you heard of
Genesis Pink Floyd Jethro Tull King Crimson The Mars Volta Yes Gentle Giant Emerson Frank Zappa Lake and Palmer
all great bands.
anyway this thread is for all those who love Prog rock
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Post by sweetloli on Oct 7, 2007 17:44:50 GMT -5
I like Prog Rock and I love a couple of bands you mentioned, but I like many of the other sub-genres under Post-Rock, like ambient and electronica. I think Mogwai and M83 are fantastic.
I only liked Genesis when Gabriel was in the lead singer and P. F.'s Wish you were Here is my fave album, don't know why...
I heard of Mars Volta but I would have to give them another listen to even remember their style. Same thing for Yes.
I've either heard of the others and forgot about them, or I forgot about the others because I didn't really care for them. But I'll give anything a try, esp. when it comes to music. I listen to mostly everything.
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Fizzywig
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Post by Fizzywig on Oct 8, 2007 1:04:40 GMT -5
Well if you are planning on Giving Mars volta another try, make sure you listen to the album De-Loused in the Comatorium and listne to it in one go. its their best album and its a dang good concept album as well. so it really deserves a full listen,
I do enjoy me some Mogwai, havent heard M83 ill check them out.
Also i just saw pinback tonite and they are pretty good and have some nice prog rock bits
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Post by sweetloli on Oct 8, 2007 7:20:39 GMT -5
^^^Thanks for the heads up, I'll check Mar's out. You like Mogwai too!!! Mr. Beast is a fantastic album. Yeah M83 is more ambient/electronica, but they're so good, well he is so good, because one of the bandmates left and the new album Digital Shades Pt.1 is much different from previous material, but that's a good thing, to me. I like the new sound. Pinback...hmm?? never heard of them, what's they're distinctive sound more prog. or ambient or glitch or.... . And you saw them in concert! Sweet. Oh you know who else I love Sigur Rós...fantastic post rock, they really set the bar for ambient/experiment/prog and shoegazing sub genres. They are really well known for their song in Vanilla Sky the end credits one. Untitled track # 4 or 7 shoot I just forgot but it's from the "()" album....classic ;D
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Fizzywig
Teo
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Posts: 445
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Post by Fizzywig on Oct 9, 2007 2:48:13 GMT -5
Admittedly i was tripping a bit but the pinback show had some definite floyd moments, and like most prog (or even just progish) bands itrs really hard to give a good explination of the sound.
ill check out Sigur, Also, you might want to check out Yellow Magic orchestra very electropop with a tad ogf a prog sounds, its really great imo.
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o8jedi
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Post by o8jedi on Jan 7, 2008 1:45:12 GMT -5
Prog ftw. Floyd and Rush are generally the biggies for me, but I'm getting into Genesis a bit more. I have to admit, though, that The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is confusing as all get-out. And draining.
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Post by spiritmage234 on Jan 22, 2008 13:35:15 GMT -5
I would like to know the exact criteria for rock to be sub-genred as "progressive rock." There are so many d@mn sub-genres of rock that I can't tell the difference.
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Post by kappaofearth on Jan 22, 2008 16:16:46 GMT -5
Do Prog Metal counts?
'cos i like Dream Theather
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o8jedi
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Post by o8jedi on Jan 22, 2008 16:18:38 GMT -5
It is, essentially, a period in art rock that went from the late 60's through the 1970's. Although some progressive groups still exist and perform, the height of its popularity was in this time. In concept, it is to elevate rock to the same artistic quality as that of Western art music (commonly known as "classical"). This is usually done through various means:
Form:[/b] Rather than going with the standard "verse-chorus-bridge" format, many prog groups often blur the distinction between them. Sometimes, they would forgo with the format all together and extend one section, contract another, or even go so far as use multiple movements in a given work. Such an example would be "2112" by Rush, which includes several distinct movements within the entire work.
Instrumentation:[/b] The use of non-traditional rock instruments is as old as rock and roll, although prog groups would employ the use of them to get their distinct sounds. Jethro Tull is famous for the use of the flute throughout their works. Many groups, however, relegate the unique sounds role to the synthesizer.
Rhythm:[/u] In addition to taking classical forms, many groups would also use odd (often times uneven) time signatures in their songs. "Money" by Pink Floyd is indicative of this trend, employing a 7/8 time signature (seven beats per measure, eighth note gets a beat) in the main sections before going to a 4/4 for the guitar solos, and returning to the 7/8 for the rest of the piece. Because of these odd signatures, progressive groups are more listener-oriented than most.
Melody:[/u] Most rock music is based around one of four types of scales: Major, minor, blues, and pentatonic, which tend to be based around a root note/chord, its 4th, and its 5th. Prog music, again referring to their classical influences, may use modal scales or focusing on 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths which, although pleasing, invokes a different mood altogether. Some have even tried to dabble in atonal music. As you can see, there's a lot of theory behind progressive groups.
Imagery: In the tradition of their contemporary composers, many prog groups would use sound effects, tape loops, and other ambient noises to create a texture or mental image in the mind of a listener. "Fearless" by Pink Floyd is famous for including samples of fans of Liverpool FC singing "You'll Never Walk Alone," the club's anthem, and cheering.
In summary, it's a more intellectual form of rock. One that can be appreciated for its form rather than the flashiness of the performers. Some contemporary groups that could be considered prog include:
Coheed & Cambria Muse Tool (although in a more progressive metal vein)
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o8jedi
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Post by o8jedi on Feb 5, 2008 11:35:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure I would consider the bulk of Pink Floyd's works as "Space Rock." Granted, there's a collection of works that most definitely qualify ("Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun," "Astronomy Domine," "Interstellar Overdrive," and to a lesser extent "Echoes"), but it sort of fell out of favor come The Dark Side of the Moon. Sure, there are some spacey lyrics in their later works, but they had moved out of that phase. It was just a period, more or less, in which they found their musical stride.
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Post by Caladbolg777 on May 2, 2008 1:07:46 GMT -5
prog. rock is very awesome.
By the way, i think you're thinking of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (you forgot one of them, lol)
Also, I recommend The Black Mages to your list. If you don't know them, they're classified under Progressive Metal, but they sound like Yes to a certain extent. They're headed by Nobuo Uematsu (composer of many many beloved Final Fantasy Soundtracks) and they do rocked out versions of Final Fantasy songs.
Also, have you considered Tool as well for your list? They sound like their experimental (although they plan everything out) but they're interesting as well. Basically Tool has mostly linear songs, odd time measures (that often change) in their songs, and they play in layers that is similar to African music (each person participating has a small role in what they play and they don't change, and collectively there is intricate and multi-layered music - Tool kinda mimics this in their own way).
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Post by Caladbolg777 on May 2, 2008 1:15:34 GMT -5
I think space opera would be a more accurate term because Pink floyd uses a lot of operatic elements in their music.
The term Space Rock generally referred to the spacey sounds from Richard Wright (the keyboardist) not necessarily from the lyrics themselves. Echoes is a really good example of their Space Rockiness actually, lol.
If pink Floyd was called a Space Rock band because of their lyrics then David Bowie would probably be more Space Rocky than Pink Floyd because he had the single "Space Oddity" and an entire album, look, and persona devoted to Space Rock (I'm referring to his album The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust). From what I can remember I've never heard Bowie and Space Rock in the same sentence.
But I could be wrong, you never know.
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o8jedi
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Post by o8jedi on May 4, 2008 14:25:00 GMT -5
An example of "space opera" is Star Wars. The Floyd used the rock opera format only once and that is with The Wall. The things that define opera is that it conveys a story and the lyrics (or more accurately libretto) is the speech contained therein.
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Post by Caladbolg777 on May 6, 2008 0:09:58 GMT -5
Okay, that's true. the Wall is an opera, but the sounds and theatrics involved in opera can be mimicked. I can't really explain it well because I don't play an instrument, but from my knowledge there are chords and such that you can play and sound operatic.
Queen is a good example of this: particularly their album A Night at the Opera. The album, although it says opera in it, is not an opera but it has the feel of an opera. many of the songs in this album sound like they come straight out of a musical, but they're not from any particular musical. it's pure invention on Queen's part. They're borrowing the musical and operatic sound to create their own music.
Roger Waters' sound when he took over the Floyd for The Wall and The Final Cut has this operatic sort of sound. The Final Cut doesn't sound too far off from The Wall but it also doesn't fit your description of opera - even though you compared The Wall to an opera.
When I say operatic sound in The Wall and The Final Cut I am thinking about the following aspects of Floyd's music: there is an orchestra in the music, the chord changes are very opera-like, the emotions involved in Waters' voice and the music is very Dramatic Arts sounding (in other words, it could easily pass off as a play or a dramatic performance - and this includes opera).
But the messages and the songs are not completely woven together to form a story. It's a bit of a full circle because Waters liked that theme, but other than the subjects in the songs, there is not true opera story involved.
If you took away the orchestra from the Final Cut it would still be an operatic album, musically speaking, because of the chord changes. Not the lyrics.
Basically I'm arguing that the opera sound is nothing but a sound that is common in operas. Just because the music is not a story (which is basically your definition of an opera) doesn't mean it can't have that operatic sound.
Also, when you say Star Wars are you talking about the soundtrack or the movies? If it's the soundtrack, there are no vocals from what I remember, and if it's the movie you're talking about then we're on a different page altogether.
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o8jedi
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Post by o8jedi on May 6, 2008 11:08:03 GMT -5
Essentially it's a matter of instrumentation for the "operatic sound" you're going for. If there's anything you're really saying, it is that The Wall and The Final Cut are full, round, bombastic, and other similar adjectives. Mostly because most of the operas and oratorios (essentially, a non-staged opera) people are familiar with (Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen, Verdi's Aida, Handel's Messiah, Rossini's Il barbiere di Siviglia, Mozart's Die Zauberflöte) have full orchestras providing the music, that's pretty much the de facto definition of the "operatic sound."
But opera remains heavily focused on the libretto. The closest thing you can do, musically, is to interweave themes representing people or ideas throughout the entire work. Wagner is famous for using themes to musically "clue in" the audience with the characters' inner motives or supernatural workings. In The Wall, the overarching motif is the 8 note progression (e.g., "We don't need no education") and that directly relates to the Wall. It starts out small, as most walls do, and grows bigger and bigger and more oppressive.
Even then, it does not necessarily qualify it as "opera." Beethoven, for example, use a 4-note rhythm throughout his Fifth Symphony, but it remains a symphony due to its structure. The same with Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique; an idee fixe is presented and reused, but the form determines the classification. With The Wall, it is the libretto. The story. That of Pink's metaphorical wall that he built around himself as a defense mechanism from all the bad things in his life and the realization that no man is an island. The Final Cut, while having a few other songs that Waters was working on during The Wall and therefore a similar style, does not have that solid libretto that its predecessor did.
Only a few works, in my mind, transcends libretto to become opera and one of them is the score for all six episodes Star Wars. Like Wagner, Williams has a theme for every major character, political body, and entity. And since it sprawls over six films while remaining true to the Wagnerian heritage of both the music and the film it becomes opera, despite the absence of a libretto. And it just so happens to take place in space. That is what I mean by "space opera."
On a different note, I have A Night at the Opera. It's one of my favorite albums. Really, Queen perfected their sound with that album: Grandiose, diverse in style, and full. However, it should be noted that the album is named after a Marx Brothers movie, as was Queen's next album after that A Day at the Races.
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