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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 8, 2008 18:38:26 GMT -5
apporved by congress but what about the rest of the world. shouldn't they have a say if we got to war with another country in the world. removing us from NATO and the UN would be like we were between WWI and WWII and we all know how that turned out. we need to be involved in global decisions seeing as we are a major player. and if he is against calling nations terrorist countries than why is he against giving them student visas?
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 18:59:25 GMT -5
i dont know, ive read much of his stuff and listened to many of his speeches, but ive never heard of that student visa thing. but I would be surprised if there was not a good explanation. could you perhaps provide a link so that we may know the context? anyways, the whole thing with the NATO and the UN, is that they undermine our soverenty and the authority of the constitution. If we wanted to go to war for a just cause, we would not need the UN. ask yourself why WW1 happened in the first place. It was specifically because of the alliances that world organizations like the UN create. we can be a player on the world level without the cost of nation-building and being heald accountable for what other nations do. are you saying that when WWII started, we should have been legally obligated to join by a international community? NO. the choice to go to the way should always be made by individual counturies. Further, many historians, including myself, believe that If we had entered the war at the beginning, we would not have done half so well. It was the economic boom we had at the beginning of the war and coming into late in the game, but fresh and rich, that attributed to our success. one of the things the constitution stresses that we must protect is out sovereignty, and the founders outline verry good ways to do that. one of which is securing our boarders, the other of which is to promote trade and diplomocy. but Not to ender into international orginizations that would force our hand by obligation. the benifits of such international organizations do not outweigh the risks to our sovereignty. This is one of his ideas that i am not so passionate about, but I understand it and agree. there is NO reason to think that we can not have diplomatic relations with other countries without the obligations of a international organization. we have been doing it for over a century. PS I like your sig, Just so long as you get his name out, people will research him for themselves, and everyone I know of who has done that, has come away supporting.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 8, 2008 19:28:29 GMT -5
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Post by akivara on Jan 8, 2008 22:21:32 GMT -5
Not isolationist, just a country that protects its sovereignty and doesn't poke its nose into other countries' business unless it directly effects us. We trade and have diplomatic relations, but we don't bother them unless they bother us. Just because we're powerful doesn't mean we have the duty or even the right to tell other countries what to do, even if it's for "their own good". *furtively looks around* In other words.... "The four nations are meant to be just that. Four." But all avatardedness aside, I'll be voting for Ron Paul, he be awesome. And I'll be checking for the possibility of using an absentee ballot (they leave paper trails).
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 8, 2008 22:34:58 GMT -5
oh i'm not saying he is for a close society i know he wants to trade and sh** but i think taking us out of the UN is crossing the line. i mean there are like three countries in the entire world that are not in the UN and taking a large and a global effecting country like America out of it would be redonkulous
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 8, 2008 23:10:34 GMT -5
well, that student Visa thing makes perfect sense then. why all the paranoia in air-port security if anyone can come over with a student visa? studies have shown that college age students in the lower class are the primary recruiting targets for radical Islamics. (and their main weapon for recruitment is american occupation) that is also one of the main reasons he wants attention at home on boarder security. currently, if a terrorist wanted to, they could simple fly into Mexico, and walk accross the boarder. the war abroad and air-port security is little more then a distraction for the american people. (abolishing birthright citizenship is the thing I am against, but I have yet to see a direct source that says he wants that. not that its a big deal in the scheme of things.) Now about the UN. In my above post I listed fundamental threats that international organizations posed to out national sovereignty. about how Its main effect it to make the type of alliances that started WWI. now, I have listed the cons, now you list the pros. seriously, you say leaving such international organizations formally is "crossing the line", but think it out. what does the UN actually do for the US? we could still ask for international help without them, and we could still receive international help without them, all it provides is an OBLIGATION to do X, while undermining the US constitution. people say, "X is going too far!" simply because the mass media perpetuates the status quo. but if you take the Time to sit down and compare the pros VS the cons, without emotion or bias... it really makes a great amount of sense. EDIT: dang, RP lost to Rudy, but only barely. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WKIwQQYpK4when they were chanting his name, was anybody else reminded of Gladiator? MAXIMUS! MAXIMUS! MAXIMUS! MAXIMUS! EDIT: hers another link Ron Paul in 2002 : Wisdom Before the Iraq War
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 9, 2008 17:52:11 GMT -5
your man crush on ron paul really doesn't matter to me anymore since he is going to lose of course i'd rather have him as president than mike huckabee but both make my skin crawl
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 9, 2008 18:51:38 GMT -5
ya, great debate man, I ask for actual logic as to why RP crosses the line, logic as to what the pros of being in entangled in international orginicatios that would outweigh the cons... and I have a crush on him? /shrug. I suppose that, while everybody sees change is needed, when confronted with concrete ideas on how to enact significant change, some will always fear it and refuse to listen. which makes sense that you would be passionate about Obama. He campaigns on change, he brings it up in every speech, but he has even less concreate plans for significant change then Edwards. (dont respond about Oboma specifically, that would be off-topic. make your own thread if you want, and we could talk there.) EDIT: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- after watching the following link, CNN: Ron Paul - far exceeding expectations - 1/04/2008, I honestly Belive that the cheap stunt Fox pulled pushed Ron Paul back to 5th where he otherwise could have gotten third. every time he attends a debate, the polls say that he did the best. He was stiff very close to Rudy. (rudy got 9%, Ron got 8%) but when you consider that he was 6 points ahead of Rudy in Iowa... he could have gotten 3ed easily. Plus, he got about 15.5 times more votes then Thompson in New Hampshire, yet they let him in the debate and not Paul? I didnt think it was possible, but I hate FoxNews even more now. EDIT: more evidence showing that RP would have beat Rudy and likely even Huckabee if he had gotten fair coverage at the debate... he still did great, only 3 points away fron getting 3ed... but still.
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Post by Karatelover on Jan 10, 2008 14:00:16 GMT -5
No offence, but who's Ron Paul?!
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 10, 2008 14:51:54 GMT -5
SRSLY? either click on my sig, or go the the first page of this thread, there are many links there that can answer that question.
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Post by Karatelover on Jan 10, 2008 14:54:26 GMT -5
SRSLY? either click on my sig, or go the the first page of this thread, there are many links there that can answer that question. Thanks!
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 11, 2008 10:55:37 GMT -5
RP's situation is unique in that he as a large internet following. So much so I pretty much discount any internet poll. Also keep in mind people have seen RP and the rest of the Republican candidates debate about 100x already. So him missing out on one debate wouldn't really change any minds. If ANYTHING he should have gotten more votes because of sympathy. except they were not "internet polls" they were the same traditional polls (landline primarily) also, people do NOT vot for the underdog because they feel sorry for him. the mentality is that, if you dont think someone is going to win, and you vote for them anyways, you are throwing your vote away. that someone is able to overcome that mentality and still get in the double digits is impressive and speaks allot about the message. EDIT: _______________________________________ YES!!!Ok, this is why FoxNews kept RP out of the new hampshire. But after they were flooded with complaints and threats to pull funding, they reversed their policy. if you dont have time to watch the whole thing, at least watch the results in the last minute of it at 10:30 PS. Poor McCaine, he would have done so much better if he had not gone up against Paul. He tried it once before (see my new Icon? people were BOOing him during that in support of RP). It turned out bad for him then, why did he try it again?
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Jan 11, 2008 18:08:27 GMT -5
well he actually won a state so i don't think it meant that much to him.
Edited: Deleted inappropriate content.
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Post by waterfire (I am back!!!) on Jan 19, 2008 19:40:08 GMT -5
He was once a doctor a good one
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Jan 20, 2008 12:20:55 GMT -5
Good news people, In the Nevada primary... Ron Paul got 2ed. YA BOI! EDIT: WHAT THE FRACK!? www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsoSX_b4lSoRP was nipping at Mccain's heels when Fox News did this, yet they didnt even mention his name and highlighted Huckabee instead?? Rupert Murdoch needs to be assassinated. EDIT: ok, sorry about that... calming down now and getting back to being optimistic. So RP actually has a chance of winning Louisiana after that performance. this is quite exciting. EDIT: www.youtube.com/watch?v=tge6RaL26S0LUL, start watching 4 minutes into it. Pimpen for Paul. I love it.
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