Gandalan
Casual Zuko
Wavemaster
Posts: 979
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Post by Gandalan on Aug 23, 2007 23:13:09 GMT -5
Rush limbaugh is not a source he is an idiot in my opinion. I think lots of people are idiots, but they're sources too. Limbaugh is an extremely BIASED source, yes. But a source nontheless.
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Post by Grimmjow of the Funk on Aug 23, 2007 23:35:51 GMT -5
if your biased you can't be a source its just an opinion. he may have some right facts but he spins them SO far left that they are not really truthful anymore.
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Aug 24, 2007 10:45:10 GMT -5
if your biased you can't be a source its just an opinion. he may have some right facts but he spins them SO far left that they are not really truthful anymore. ahem. that was Bush himself sayign that in a speech. not Rush. and that wasn't an opinion. you cant say Alan Colmes said "universal healthcare is goood, therefore it is!" and you can't say Limbaugh said "global warmign is a hoax, therefore Al Gore was lying in an inconvienient truth!" You can say, Alan colmes said universal health care will cut down on people dying from cancer" (source) Rush limbaugh said "The Iraq army has reached a new height of success" (source) SEE YOU THE DIFFERENCE?
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 11, 2007 18:47:28 GMT -5
if your biased you can't be a source its just an opinion. he may have some right facts but he spins them SO far left that they are not really truthful anymore. Water is liquid at 90 degrees. That is a FACT. I hate 90 degree weather. That changes NOTHING about the properties of water. But onto Iraq. This is a war of intelligence. And perspective. We're losing in that respect because we're broadcasting EVERYTHING we think to the world. You cannot say we're losing or winning the war, because you aren't part of al Qaeda. You PROVE to me that we're losing. Al Qaeda knows if they're winning or not. It's like playing chess and not seeing the other person's pieces or knowing if you take their pieces, when they can see all of yours. Tell me how many soldiers Al Qaeda has, the emotions through the leadership, the morale of the people. You can't. But anyone in Al Qaeda could answer all of those about us. We just need to exhaust their resources, go after their sources. It doesn't matter HOW many people die, more join every day.
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
Tame the Flame
Posts: 946
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Post by Atmos on Sept 11, 2007 19:11:37 GMT -5
The way I see it...this whole war is like one really screwed up surgical procedure.
Sure, the country might've needed the surgery...but all Bush did was cut open a big hole in the stomach not knowing what to do next...so instead...he just cuts the whole bigger...and bigger still not knowing how to go about the procedure.
Now with the country at the breaking point...it's going take one hell of a mastermind to pull this off...and of course leaving the country with a big hole like so isn't going to heal on it's own either.
Just one whole that we just dug ourselves deeper.
As far as I'm aware, the hate on America doesn't seemed to have died down and neither has the discrimination between the Sunnis and Shiites.
Just throwing out this question to anyone: What would be the definition of "winning the war?" What would the scenario be?
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 11, 2007 19:26:11 GMT -5
The way I see it...this whole war is like one really screwed up surgical procedure. Sure, the country might've needed the surgery...but all Bush did was cut open a big hole in the stomach not knowing what to do next...so instead...he just cuts the whole bigger...and bigger still not knowing how to go about the procedure. Now with the country at the breaking point...it's going take one hell of a mastermind to pull this off...and of course leaving the country with a big hole like so isn't going to heal on it's own either. Just one whole that we just dug ourselves deeper. As far as I'm aware, the hate on America doesn't seemed to have died down and neither has the discrimination between the Sunnis and Shiites. Just throwing out this question to anyone: What would be the definition of "winning the war?" What would the scenario be? People aren't blowing each other up in the streets, the government has the support of the people, and the police/military are the dominant force, rather than Al Qaeda et al
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Atmos
Casual Zuko
Tame the Flame
Posts: 946
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Post by Atmos on Sept 11, 2007 20:55:35 GMT -5
The way I see it...this whole war is like one really screwed up surgical procedure. Sure, the country might've needed the surgery...but all Bush did was cut open a big hole in the stomach not knowing what to do next...so instead...he just cuts the whole bigger...and bigger still not knowing how to go about the procedure. Now with the country at the breaking point...it's going take one hell of a mastermind to pull this off...and of course leaving the country with a big hole like so isn't going to heal on it's own either. Just one whole that we just dug ourselves deeper. As far as I'm aware, the hate on America doesn't seemed to have died down and neither has the discrimination between the Sunnis and Shiites. Just throwing out this question to anyone: What would be the definition of "winning the war?" What would the scenario be? People aren't blowing each other up in the streets, the government has the support of the people, and the police/military are the dominant force, rather than Al Qaeda et al Okay...uh, doesn't really directly answer/relate to anything I just said >.>'
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Post by CountessRachel on Sept 11, 2007 22:29:06 GMT -5
I think Nero was giving you a "winning scenario." If you're asking how in the hell would we even get to that scenario? I suppose nothing short of intense prayer and a spectacular miracle at this point.
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Post by demonofthewest on Sept 12, 2007 0:30:10 GMT -5
No Nero, we are not losing because we have a free media. We're losing because our military isn't doing as well as it was supposed to, the Iraqi police are corrupt, the politicians are even worse, and we're actually siding with the Mahdi Army (the whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap) without considering the dangerous consequences. And as far as I can tell, Al Qaeda isn't being hand delivered every strategy General Petraeus whips up. I think there are quite a few pieces they aren't seeing.
And really, what would you suggest we do? That people stop protesting the war and stop expressing their opinions? That we let the Bush Administration do whatever they want because they know better? If Iraq is going to become a democracy, shouldn't they learn by example? Oh, and if we can't tell if Al Qaeda is winning or losing, how can you?
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Post by Exorcist on Sept 12, 2007 1:31:40 GMT -5
My history teacher today brought up a very important point, what if the Iraqi people doesn't want a democracy?, Great Britian didn't really become a full democracy, Why should we force the Iraqis?
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historyman12
Fugitive Iroh
IS IT JULY 14TH YET?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by historyman12 on Sept 12, 2007 15:02:45 GMT -5
I think Nero was giving you a "winning scenario." If you're asking how in the hell would we even get to that scenario? I suppose nothing short of intense prayer and a spectacular miracle at this point. because of, course, this doesn't count: www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_082207/content/01125106.guest.htmlIF YOU ARE TOO LAZY TO READ: We are killing/capturing 1,500 Al Qaedans A MONTH since January, that's a year's worth of death's for us. not a losing statisctic if I do say so myself.
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 12, 2007 18:15:05 GMT -5
I think Nero was giving you a "winning scenario." If you're asking how in the hell would we even get to that scenario? I suppose nothing short of intense prayer and a spectacular miracle at this point. Or we don't expect things to get better in a year.
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 12, 2007 18:26:26 GMT -5
We're losing because our military isn't doing as well as it was supposed to, Because counterinsurgency stopped being taught after Vietnam Goal #1 Which is why we're still there... Big philoprogenitiveness, if they do anything they've got over 100,000 troops to deal with. WE ARE GOING TO STAY THE COURSE FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE AND AS NEEDED. OH AND WE'RE ATTACKING FALLUJAH IN A WEEK.
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Post by demonofthewest on Sept 12, 2007 20:23:50 GMT -5
The Mahdi Army are "doing things." They drove out the Sunnis, and we let them. They're causing problems all over the place, and we're letting them, because even the Mahdi Army is more effective at keeping the peace (albeit brutally) than the official Iraqi police force. So we send a message to the Mahdi Army and the Iraqis that we'll turn a blind eye to brutality when we don't feel like dealing with it. If our army is so powerful, why aren't we doing something to stop them? Oh, and your third argument has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Al Qaeda isn't seeing "every piece" if they did then we would have lost by now. But anyway, we won't necessarily stay in Iraq as long as you predict. And how does shooting terrorists improve the quality of corrupt politicians? historyman12Mr. Limbaugh neglected to mention Bush's source for the capture quota. He didn't say whether Petraeus confirmed it, or if any military official confirmed it. So we essentially have a "Bush says it so it must be true!" comment, which might be worth something if Bush didn't lie so much. @exorcist We aren't a "full democracy" either. As far as I know, there aren't any countries that have a direct democracy, mostly because it's impossible on a large scale.
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Post by Consonant*** on Sept 12, 2007 20:50:49 GMT -5
The Mahdi Army are "doing things." They drove out the Sunnis, and we let them. They're causing problems all over the place, and we're letting them, because even the Mahdi Army is more effective at keeping the peace (albeit brutally) than the official Iraqi police force. So we send a message to the Mahdi Army and the Iraqis that we'll turn a blind eye to brutality when we don't feel like dealing with it. If our army is so powerful, why aren't we doing something to stop them? Because if we did, then we'd get pulled out of Iraq. Which is a problem. Qhat kind of question is that? are you that blind? For one, people won't be scared to leave their houses, and they can get an education. And the people with ideas can come forward.
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