RadiantBeam
Long Feng
Rosa rubicundior, lilio candidior.
Posts: 3,245
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Post by RadiantBeam on Jul 4, 2007 11:08:41 GMT -5
^ I actually wrote a fic with that scenario....
Mai has shown some rebellion against Azula now and then, so I highly doubt she's wrapped around the Princess's finger. Still, she's probably going to keep her guard up, especially as far as Zuko's concerned.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jul 6, 2007 20:51:08 GMT -5
She might be the only girl that definitively knows his true nature and accepts it. That's the basis upon which I think Maiko might happen in canon. Hmm, I second this. I think it’s already true to an extent because Mai is the only girl who knows who he is truly is (Jin and Song only know Lee) and like him (Katara knows Zuko but has issues with him). Mai doesn’t have the oh so tragic past that Zuko does but I think she could understand him best because of that. I hope with all my heart that there will be kissing. Don't we all?
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Kyatto
Kyoshi Azula
Dance, magic dance!
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Kyatto on Jul 7, 2007 8:34:15 GMT -5
(Hello Maikos <3 )
One thing the show's been good at is hinting at things subtly and foreshadowing. Just about everything in the show has happened for a reason.
Mai would not have any sort of positive connection with Zuko if it meant nothing for later on in the plot. They already proved Zuko knows of her existence by showing the flashback of him saving her from Azula. If he really never cared for Mai he would've just walked away and left the apple burning on her head. This is why I get irekd when people say Maiko will not work because Zuko doesn't remember her/knows she exists. He does.
Mai also wouldn't have shown any sort of disloyalty to Azula if nothing would come of it. One of the major differences between Mai and Ty Lee is that Ty Lee shows that she fears Azula's wrath while Mai joined out of her own accord. Many fans view Mai's decision to join Azula on her own as a bad thing. The key elelment is that Mai was literally bored with her life. She didn't like sitting around being a nobleman. She wanted action. By joining Azula on her quest she knew she'd do more with her days than sit on her bum. Anyway, I have a feeling that the fact Mai does things on her own and isn't *truly* loyal to Azula might come into play in the next season.
So far, the second season has shown Zuko make an attempt with three different girls. (Song, Jin, and I'm counting Katara too.) However, with each of them he failed. He refused to fully connect with Song, ran away from Jin, and betrayed Katara's trust. My personal opinion is that basically all three of those possible suitors for Zuko have been shot down. Who's left (if they decide Zuko gets a girl)? Mai. Clearly this has to mean something. (I do not count Ty Lee because so far the only person Ty Lee has shown interest in is Sokka.)
There's also the political thing to consider, as has been brought up before. Katara is a peasant from the Water Tribe. Being from the Water Tribe, that alone makes it impossible for her to be wife material if Zuko became Fire Lord. A Fire Nation queen must know of the Fire Nation's politics, meaning it's something they'd had to have grown up with. While Mai may have chosen to leave her life of being a noble, that doesn't mean she's forgotten what she was taught about how to live. (Think about Toph. Toph comes from a rich, dignified family. She chose to leave it behind, however, as shown later on, she hasn't forgotten her roots.)
Also there's the personality traits of the two. Yes, epople think KAtara and Zuko "connected" in the catacombs. However, he literally betrayed her. While Katara may be forgiving in some respects, she's not going to go leaping into his arms anytime soon. Think about Jet, even after all that time went by she was still hesitant to trust him when she saw him again. I believe that is foreshadowing how she will think of Zuko in the next season. While she may not hate him anymore, she did lose all respect for him when he sided with his sister and attacked Aang. Mai, while being apathetic, knows who Zuko is. She knows him before the scar, before the banishment. She would understand his reasons for siding with his sister. Zuko's the only thing Mai has truly smiled at. I believe it will be Zuko who opens up her heart more and together they will be able to bring the happiness to each other. My personal theory is that it's because of Azula Mai's shown not to care for anything. Notice how in the flashback when Azula noticed Mai's crush on her brother her first instinct was to embarass them? I think to save herself from further taunting Mai closed herself off from those around her. Perhaps that will change when she and Zuko are reunited.
I have a feeling that eventually Zuko will betray Azula, and Mai will follow him. However, she would do it subtly. I could see it start out like a 3 against 1 gang up and all of a sudden Mai casually walks to stand beside Zuko. She wouldn't say anything, just literally walk over and pull out a knife against Azula. That may not be how it goes, but it seems like a likely possibility.
Wow that wa slong....Any other thoughts? XD
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Post by Empy on Jul 7, 2007 8:39:46 GMT -5
Wow Kyatto, that was great! Thank you for posting that! I think it sums up all the maiko debates and shows how many things are working for maiko. *Karma*
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Kyatto
Kyoshi Azula
Dance, magic dance!
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Kyatto on Jul 7, 2007 8:47:19 GMT -5
Wow Kyatto, that was great! Thank you for posting that! I think it sums up all the maiko debates and shows how many things are working for maiko. *Karma* Thank you! <3 I've had Maiko a lot on my mind lately, which is why I wandered over here. XD It's one of the few M/F ships I've been avidly supporting. I'm also tired of random Zutara theories that keep popping up. XD
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Post by Empy on Jul 7, 2007 8:57:47 GMT -5
I can understand the appeal of Zutara (Healing nations and all that jazz) but I honestly cannot see it happening. There are just so many factors working against it. Wh00t! Maiko has Kyatto's seal of approval, it's sure to be canon!
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Post by aangryjerk on Jul 7, 2007 10:50:10 GMT -5
Holy carp! Do you really think he'd do that? That doesn't really say much about Zuko does it? What about all those soldiers he spoke up for, whom he didn't even know personally? Or that helmsman he saved in The Storm? Or Zhao, who had been a pain in Zuko's butt and tried to have him killed? I think Zuko is a better person than you're giving him credit for. He would not have allowed Mai to be burned, whether he liked her or not.
I agree with your point that he does know she exists. That apple scene was his memory after all.
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Jul 7, 2007 12:04:06 GMT -5
Oh, that’s a really nice post Kyatto! I’m going to add my two cents here and there if you don’t mind. If he really never cared for Mai he would've just walked away and left the apple burning on her head. This is why I get irekd when people say Maiko will not work because Zuko doesn't remember her/knows she exists. He does. Hmm, I agree with aangryjerk. I don’t think Mai would have left the burning on her head even if he didn’t like her because he’s just not that kind of guy. However, I think if Zuko didn’t know Mai exists she wouldn’t be in his memories and in them more than, say, Ty Lee. Well, I wouldn’t say he attempted something (mainly romantic) with them but those were three connections that Zuko failed to make. Zuko stole Song’s ostrich horse, Zuko ran away from Jin, and he betrayed Katara. Since Zuko has some sort of connection with Mai already I bet it’ll be different this time. I agree to an extent. Some of Mai’s apathy, I imagine, is because she uses it to close herself off from Azula but I don’t think all of it comes from that. Little!Mai in Zuko Alone did seem less bored but even then she was sitting doing nothing (until Zuko came along ) while Azula and Ty Lee were playing. So, I don’t think Mai would be a similar version of Ty Lee if things had been different but I think her not caring helps a bit. I could see it going that way too. Mai does seem to show more interest in Zuko than Azula’s plan of the day and she had subtly disobeyed her friend before. Mai not staying on Azula’s side seem more likely than her staying there. Plus, it would be more interesting.
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Monk
Haru
Posts: 337
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Post by Monk on Jul 7, 2007 12:08:48 GMT -5
Kyatto, that was an exceptional summary of the Maiko discussion.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Jul 7, 2007 13:42:49 GMT -5
I agree with aangryjerk and you for the most part. But for the most part, Zuko's memories from Zuko Alone was more about his mother. The people who deny Mai and say Zuko doesn't know she exists aren't really paying attention to the episode. But I can't really say that Zuko would have any romantic inclination towards Mai just because he remembered getting the burning apple off Mai's head and not doing anything specific or to that extent with Ty Lee....if that makes sense. XD I can mostly agree with that. Since he has a past with Mai, then it would make sense for him to act different around her. But then again, who's to say Zuko won't do something that hurts Mai or makes her feel betrayed? He has a nasty habit of doing that... I can see it happening, but I just don't think it will. Mai strikes me as someone who's going to be just like Zuko. Place honor and support of the Fire Nation above all else. But then again...after season 3 premiers and we see more of her thoughts and ideas and opinions of Azula. It all depends on what's to come.
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LiveInThaskyE
The Avatars
The Honorary Zutarian
Black God
Posts: 12,182
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Post by LiveInThaskyE on Jul 8, 2007 3:36:21 GMT -5
Whoa,great post Kyatto, even though I didn't read it all
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RadiantBeam
Long Feng
Rosa rubicundior, lilio candidior.
Posts: 3,245
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Post by RadiantBeam on Jul 8, 2007 10:22:13 GMT -5
Debating makes my head hurt. X___X
I'm trying to keep up here and failing miserably. Carry on.
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Post by aangryjerk on Jul 8, 2007 11:05:38 GMT -5
I think what really matters is that Mai has been shown to have romantic feelings for Zuko. Whether he has had, or presently has any feelings in return doesn't really matter, because he will in the future. That should be pretty clear from what's been said by various people involved in the show.
The girls he hurt all had something in common--they came between him and his goal of returning home. Well, maybe not Song in a direct way, but she had a beast of burden that he needed, and just asking for it probably wouldn't have worked.
As of the end of CoD, he pretty much accomplished his goal and should be back home early in the next season. So unless he forms a new desperate goal that Mai interferes with, I don't see him hurting or betraying her.
What is it about Mai that makes you think so? She doesn't seem motivated by patriotism or honor to me. I see her main motivation to be a quest for excitement, so long as she doesn't have to get dirty. Hopefully she'll be fleshed out a little more, but so far "fastidious action junkie" seems to be the gist of her.
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Jul 8, 2007 11:21:26 GMT -5
Yet it's possible. I'm not saying he will because I honestly don't know. But anything is possible in Avatar.
Mostly the fact of "Return to Omashu." Sure, she was incredibly bored with the politics and living in Omashu. However, she also listened to Azula regarding the trade of her brother and Bumi. Had Azula not been there, there's a possibility that she would have just forked Bumi over and that be the end. Now, she may have done just as well. But as hard as I try, with as minimal characterization as Mai has, I can't even picture Mai switching sides because she's bored or for feelings towards Zuko. Sorry.
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Post by aangryjerk on Jul 8, 2007 17:31:00 GMT -5
Yet it's possible. I'm not saying he will because I honestly don't know. But anything is possible in Avatar. Well just because anything is possible doesn't mean Zuko is going to do the same thing over and over. His betrayal of Iroh left a bad taste in his mouth, so I think he'll be less likely to hurt people that care about him in the future. No problem Whatever her thinking was in the Bumi trade off, I don't think it had anything to do with honor or supporting the FN. I personally think she was being tested by Azula, and figuring that her little brother was relatively safe, she went along with it. To oppose Azula would probably have made things very bad for herself and her family later on. It remains to be seen if she'd act the same way if it was Zuko instead of her little brother in peril. Maybe the purpose of the scene was to create a bit of suspense--will she or won't she oppose Azula for Zuko's sake? If so, then it works pretty well.
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