Pleading Eyes
Kyoshi Mai
I feel violated... and crispy
Posts: 2,327
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Post by Pleading Eyes on Sept 26, 2007 22:29:21 GMT -5
Azula being redeemed just doesn't fit with her character mold.
Let's look at her first entrance. First impressions are very powerful ones, and so writers (good ones, anyway) are always sure to give important characters special entrances and/or vital first interactions. At the very least dramatic ones.
Zuko's first appearance, we have him sailing on a ship. Alright, not much to see there.
But what of the first time he confronts Aang? Aang agrees to go with Zuko, on the condition that Zuko leave the Southern Water Tribe alone.
Zuko agrees, and KEEPS HIS WORD. He takes Aang and does NOT harm the Southern Water Tribe.
Now let's compare with Azula.
Her first entrance, Ozai is giving her a mission. Alright, not much to gauge there.
So what about when we first see her interact with Zuko? What does she do? She deceives him. Her own brother--not an enemy, not even a stranger--her own flesh and blood! She tricks him into almost becoming her prisoner. Heck, she throws LIGHTNING, she tries to KILL him.
And NOTHING Azula has done has contradicted this first image we have of her. Not ONCE has it been hinted at that there's anything more to her character than the cunning, manipulative, cold, villain she is.
Why would she be redeemed? Especially now, so late into the series? Zuko's been "going down the redemption path" for two seasons, going on a third, and he's STILL not done.
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Post by Darryl on Sept 27, 2007 3:09:42 GMT -5
But if she doesn't redeem herself, what will she do? I mean, shes 14 (or 15 at the end of the series) and placing her in jail would be not very nice. I mean..surely there must be some underage bail, you know?
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Sept 27, 2007 9:41:19 GMT -5
I just want to point out (as Azula has done herself) that redemption is about perspective and audience. For example, to the FN Azula is a hero and a very worthy princess who fights on the front lines just like her predecessors. To the rest of the world she is a masterful villain who was able to bring down BSS from the inside out. Azula has nothing to redeem in the eyes of the FN, however she would have to do a lot to be redeemed in the eyes of the rest of the world. If you take it in THAT perspective the YES she CAN be redeemed in the eyes of the rest of the world should she choose that route. Would she? That's a totally differnt question. The only scenario i can see this happening is if she gets tired of fighting and war much like how Iroh did. When you're young (or foolish )everything seems like it can be solved through conflict. The person who wins is the one that yells louder and hits harder till the other person gives up. In reality that person is still there full of contempt. They might not outwardly show it but bet on it they would encourage others to "take up arms" against their oppressor.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
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Post by yiceman on Sept 27, 2007 15:40:24 GMT -5
^The perspective of the characters of the avatar world is irrelevent compared to the most important perspective: us.
Redeeming Azula is such a drastic contrast to everything they've shown of her character that it could come across as inconsistent storytelling and lack the kind of closure needed for this character. We would feel cheated and confused that she gets away with killing Aang and that she's able to do in one season what Zuko was barely able to do in three.
We really, REALLY don't need Zuko: Part Two.
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Sept 27, 2007 15:54:32 GMT -5
^and yet we do not EXIST in the avatar world. All the arguments that state "she can't be redeemed because it would go against her character." are rather narrow minded just because she's a "fictional character". The arguments about the length of time for a "good" redemption story are relevant here but just like any show, Avatar is subject to bad writing as well. ^The perspective of the characters of the avatar world is irrelevent compared to the most important perspective: us. I have to disagree with that. Authors tend to have their views reflected in their main characters thus their perspectives are important.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Sept 27, 2007 16:00:26 GMT -5
The Avatar World isn't real...it doesn't matter what they think, it matters what the writers and the viewers think.
The writers? They think Azula is evil! They called her "soul-less" in the CoD commentary! They've gone to great lengths to write her as a twisted, sick character!
And do you really want Azula to be redeemed if the result is bad writing?
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attonbitus
Blue Spirit
I'm in ur clouds, steel'n ur thundar
Posts: 2,121
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Post by attonbitus on Sept 27, 2007 16:07:50 GMT -5
I think people are getting confused with the word usage of "can". Of course she can it doesn't mean she will be.
Can Azula be redeemed? Yes Will she be redeemed? No
Just like in my senario, it might not be RIGHT NOW THIS SEASON. It could be years from now after a life time of fighting does she change her personality. People rarely act the same between 14 and 40.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Sept 27, 2007 19:21:47 GMT -5
But the show is over at the end of this season...meaning Azula's story will be resolved. What you're thinking of is fanfiction, my friend.
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Post by theweasleyboys on Sept 27, 2007 19:52:25 GMT -5
^The perspective of the characters of the avatar world is irrelevent compared to the most important perspective: us. Redeeming Azula is such a drastic contrast to everything they've shown of her character that it could come across as inconsistent storytelling and lack the kind of closure needed for this character. We would feel cheated and confused that she gets away with killing Aang and that she's able to do in one season what Zuko was barely able to do in three. We really, REALLY don't need Zuko: Part Two. I. Totally. Agree. XD If they had meant Azula to be redeemed, it would have been her chasing Aang ever since Season 1 while Zuko was the indulged and adored Palace Pup. In my opinion, the roles are made this way because they intend for Zuko to be redeemed, and that's all there is to it, I think. :3
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
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Posts: 1,280
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Post by Maylene on Sept 27, 2007 20:51:23 GMT -5
It's so great I didn't partake in the bet. I've seen The Headband....and well that one percent I had of Azula being redeemed may have gone down a wee bit. XD LoL
I still don't think she's after the throne though, but we'll just have to wait and see! ^___^
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
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Post by SpiritBender on Sept 27, 2007 21:02:59 GMT -5
^^Wow, people are actually letting themselves be fooled by Azula's playacting and plotting. Tell me, how much sense does it make for one moment Azula to setting up Zuko for a total downfall, and then not a day later to "watching out for him." Is that really consistent with her character? ?? -- SpiritBender
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Sept 27, 2007 21:13:36 GMT -5
Yes, it is...because she was lying ;p
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
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Post by Maylene on Sept 27, 2007 21:15:40 GMT -5
SpiritBender: I so don't want to get into a debate right now (I'm really happy), but if you wish: Why don't I think that Azula is after the throne? Because setting up Zuko for his downfall, does not automatically condemn Azula-as "ZOMG! That witch is after the throne! That's why she wants Zuko out of the picture!" I don't believe that just cuz she wants Zuko out of the picture, she wants the throne. Besides what makes you think I believe Azula when she says she's looking out for Zuko? What made you believe that I believed her lies in 301 or 302? Please do not presume with me. I keep that one percent of Azula being redeemed, because I try to be opened minded to anything and everything. There is no crime in that.
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
Posts: 537
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Post by SpiritBender on Sept 27, 2007 21:41:24 GMT -5
^^If she's not after the throne, then what other motivation would she have for setting Zuko up for a huge downfall???
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Maylene
Avatar Roku
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Post by Maylene on Sept 27, 2007 21:55:02 GMT -5
Because like people have been saying, Azula likes inflicting pain. Why not? It's possible.
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