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Post by Amira on Dec 29, 2007 22:48:50 GMT -5
i think if he had rushed in from the start by saying he loves her I might agree. But it's been crafted and has developed over the course of the the storyline. I don't think that M&B would've allowed Aang's comment of love to be put into the story if it wasn't what he was actually feeling.
I also think Aang has a spiritual and inner intuitiveness that a lot of people his age might not have. He was trained to be reflective, to be at one with himself so to speak. But he's taking on a great task. People IMO make Aang's age a double standard. They want him to be adult and make adult choices (like giving Katara up for the world, stopping the war, etc.) but yet he is too young to love emotionally like an adult.
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Post by lunauc on Dec 29, 2007 22:49:33 GMT -5
Well, yeah! I can't see them wrapping up the series w/o some form of reconciliation b/w the two. Katara can hold a grudge, that's true, but I think that Zuko might do something later on in the series to get some of her trust. It would be trippy to see them laughing at jokes and sharing marshmallows by the campfire, though. It's Aang that's gonna be his future BFF, not Katara. DX I find it a bit "trippier" that Aang is Zuko's reborn grandfather. That's a bit weirder than any other relationship on the show, I figure. Heck, that makes Zuko 1/4 Avatar, as well as Azula, which might explain the cool blue fire and lightning bolt arsenal. Yeesh, Zuko really got jipped in that genetic lottery. oh.. and while I'm editing the quotation, may as well field another.... Amira, as grown woman, who has likely had several suitors by now, given your wonderful charms ;D, I'm sure you've known quite a few young men who have hesitated but eventually rushed in to love. It is part of human nature to assume you know what you want, and never consider any downside. After all, in fantasy we only see the promise and not the price. I'd be more disappointed if Aang weremaking some absolutely right and undeniably perfect choice for his first time. It dehumanizes him, rising him on that pedastool of perfection where he never needs to learn or adapt, because he knew right away what was right and never faultered. But then again, I admit, I am not quite the romantic other people are. I'm not looking for a perfect happiness, or a wonderfully resolved decision. Happily ever after is an Ending, not a continuation of life. However, I cannot speak for you, and I certainly cannot speak for the creators of the show. All I can offer is a reminder that there are many views of life to take, and not one of them is more correct than the others.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Dec 29, 2007 22:54:32 GMT -5
I see that too! That's exactly what I had in mind when I typed that up earlier. Katara would go on her white horse to save her boyfriend in distress because damnit, that's how they roll. They save each other, they're each other's best friends, and I think, platonic or not, they share a very beautiful connection. It's one of the reasons why I ship them. If there were no shippy-implications b/w the two in the series I would still ship Aang/Katara because of how they interact around each other and because of what they mean to each other. THIS. Nawh, I kid. He would probably have to save Aang or someone from the Gaang for her to trust him. Leaning more towards Aang, methinks, since he's tried to hurt him before. If he saved him from danger or rescued him from his sister then I think she'd trust him a bit more after that. I don't. XD When I heard that Zuko was related to Avatar Roku, I had a Star Wars moment. Zuko and Katara being all "omg happy happy joy joy" around a campfire is waaaaay trippier for me.
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Post by deana on Dec 29, 2007 23:02:59 GMT -5
Uh...sorry, but what does that have to do with anything? Toph isn't even interested in Aang; she has a crush on Sokka. And I don't think the fact that Aang had a vision of Toph in the swamp has anything to do with any reincarnation theory. You will see people you have lost and loved...Toph appears. I was merely pointing out that because of that episode, Toph should have more of a shot of being a reincarnated love than Katara, which that guy I quoted brought up. Just imagine if it was Katara he saw other than Toph. I am sure I would be the one who has the argument above. Toph is 12. I am looking at the big picture. In the very near future, that crush could be on someone else. What she feels for the other person might go further than a crush. People move on. It is a part of life.
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Post by Mashnii on Dec 29, 2007 23:07:04 GMT -5
Uh...sorry, but what does that have to do with anything? Toph isn't even interested in Aang; she has a crush on Sokka. And I don't think the fact that Aang had a vision of Toph in the swamp has anything to do with any reincarnation theory. You will see people you have lost and loved...Toph appears. I was merely pointing out that because of that episode, Toph should have more of a shot of being a reincarnated love than Katara, which that guy I quoted brought up. Just imagine if it was Katara he saw other than Toph. I am sure I would be the one who has the argument above. Toph is 12. I am looking at the big picture. In the very near future, that crush could be on someone else. What she feels for the other person might go further than a crush. People move on. It is a part of life. I always interpreted it as a friendship love, and that the swamp was showing Aang Toph because Toph was meant to teach him earthbending. What does being Aang's age have to do with it? Is it not possible for two people of opposite sexes to be the same age and close friends?
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Post by lunauc on Dec 29, 2007 23:08:31 GMT -5
Deana, you may wanna let it go in this room. It's not really on topic with the thread. Check in the theories boardm if you like, we had a whole thread on the swamp connection. Though it was basically a big game of "how far can you read into symbolism". Though I eventually got bored of it, I do still find it amusing. Feel free to add your own exaggerations to the pile.
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Post by deana on Dec 29, 2007 23:12:47 GMT -5
I always interpreted it as a friendship love, and that the swamp was showing Aang Toph because Toph was meant to teach him earthbending. What does being Aang's age have to do with it? Is it not possible for two people of opposite sexes to be the same age and close friends? It could be a friendship love and it could be something else. Yes people who are twelve can have close friendships. I was posting about Toph's crush on Sokka. I am using the angle of, feelings change. Toph being as young as she is, has many more crushes to go through over the years. Deana, you may wanna let it go in this room. It's not really on topic with the thread. Check in the theories boardm if you like, we had a whole thread on the swamp connection. Though it was basically a big game of "how far can you read into symbolism". Though I eventually got bored of it, I do still find it amusing. Feel free to add your own exaggerations to the pile. I wasn't planning to dwell on it. I just posted a reply to the question of Katara's being Aang's reincarnated love. Thanks for the link, though. I'll get back on topic! Zutara FTW!
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Post by Lyralocke on Dec 29, 2007 23:20:52 GMT -5
Kataang for me. Until I stumbled upon the fandom, it didn't even occur to me than anything else was a possibility, haha.
Plus, it's hard to deny that Kataang could become (or already is) something epic. And uh... I like the word epic.
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ethe
Haru
The Mythological Being
Posts: 335
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Post by ethe on Dec 29, 2007 23:31:47 GMT -5
"Behind this mask is an idea, and ideas. are. Bulletproof!" "Behind this fandom, is and idea. and ideas. are. Cannonprof!" Lulz.. now I wanna see that movie again~! :D Very true statement indeed~
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 30, 2007 0:52:31 GMT -5
Heh... a challenger, eh? I accept! Well.. okay, it's not really a challenge, just offering a reply in polite conversation really. So, I hope I don't offend you. not at all, thats what its all about. ;D o boy, the whole. "It isnt really love" argument. ok, first off, lets establish that aang is 12 for marketing reasons, but they have shown in the show that aang is MUCH more mature then your typical 12 year old. OK, now let me ask you this. If you were Bryan, and you wanted to convey that one charcter loved another, how would you do it? i want you to seriously ask yourself that question... Would you perhaps have said said charcter stare at his object of affection? Blush? act awkward at first and determined as he becomes more confident with himself? I suppose you could have him sacrifice something for his love. You could have him daydream about his love. you could even have him kiss his object of affection. or, if you wanted to be really blunt, you could have said character actually state that he LOVES his object of affection. If you were Bryan, and you wanted to convey that Aang loves katara, could you add a SINGLE thing to the show, to show that aang loves katara, that hasnt already been done? I couldn't come up with a single one. I agree with you completely here, and this is something aang is going to learn. he cant turn love on and on like a switch, it isnt easy to let go of... but because he was willing to try makes it all the stronger. If he had refused to let go, it would have been an attachment/infatuation. if he had refused to let go, he would not have been mature enough for love. but this was not the case I cant think of a SINGLE story that had the lover's spirits reincarnated through time... im not saying its not out there, but if I have never seen,or even heard of it, its not a cliche... as opposed to love becoming hate, which is shoved down my throat in at least half of the love story's i have ever seen/read. Replace Katara with Toph and I might say, yes. The only girl that should truly have a chance at being Aang's reincarnated love, is Toph. Unless I imagined Toph being the person Aang saw in the swamp and it was actually Katara. El Oh EL, YOu R so Funnie! ... but ya, everyone else has already explained how the situation in the swamp was not about romance. that theory was based mainly because of the familiar looks katara shares with them all. and it developed a connection as to why/how katara found aang. and then about gran gran saying that her destiny was linked with the avatar's... or something like that... i kinda like the theory, but most kataangers care more for what we actually see in the show instead of theories that branch too far away from what M&B have given us. and just for reference... if i could chose one thing you would pay attention to in that post, it would be what i said about how Bryan would communicate love. put yourself in the creators shoes. ask yourself what they are trying to convey to the viewers. and of coarse, just enjoy the show.
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pg15
Avatar Roku
"Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Posts: 1,248
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Post by pg15 on Dec 30, 2007 1:06:40 GMT -5
See, this is what I mean about opening a can of worms. Once you take that first step, thinking that perhaps the characters are deluding themselves with what they're expressing in words, you can no longer trust any character in what they say unless you apply a double standard.
For example: Aang only thinks he's in love? Ok, then Zuko only thinks he's finally conquered his obsession with trying to get his daddy to love him. In truth, he's deluding himself and somewhere down the line he'll betray the Gaang again. Why not? It's not like what he says expresses what he means, right?
This is a TV show, folks. The only way we get to know what a character is thinking or feeling is by their words and their actions. So far, no words or action has refuted the fact that Aang loves Katara. It doesn't matter what you think love is, because Aang apparently does know, and he knows that love is for Katara. End of story, it's not a crush.
Can of worms people, can of worms. Don't open it.
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Post by mahatista on Dec 30, 2007 2:09:56 GMT -5
ok, first off, lets establish that aang is 12 for marketing reasons, but they have shown in the show that aang is MUCH more mature then your typical 12 year old. Holy Moly! You mean it's NOT the classic archetypal storyline of a child saving the world? I'm glad to finally have it confirmed that the creators of Avatar are that shallow. It puts everything in a new perspective. So what you're saying then is that fully half of the stories you have seen/read have not shoved that down your throat? So you like one over the other and the rest of us are just completely cliche because in this case we happen to like the one you don't? Typical rude response. Why bother?
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Dec 30, 2007 2:46:47 GMT -5
I'm constantly surprised at how different my own reasons for liking something are from the rest of you folks. Oh, mercy! I see people listing things like destiny, and rebirth, and meaningful bonds and themes and branching out to new territory...I don't care about any of that, myself. Here's what I like in a romance, because I know y'all are a dyin' to hear.... Good development. BALANCED development. If they're hitting me over the head with it and it's blatantly obvious, I lose interest. But if I watch/read a scene, and just from the nuances of their behavior I get a though "hmm, maybe something going on there," it's more interesting. Nice to see it building, but also nice to still get a shock and a sense of satisfaction of having caught it when it comes to pass. Realism. I don't like anything too fairly tail...I honestly don't care for the "true love" schtick. Too disney. I like seeing the fights and the hardships just as much as the goodtimes. I don't buy that anyone's "perfect" for each other, so don't try to make them be. Know what you get then? Two really boring people. DIALOGUE. Extremely important. I have to be entertained just by watching them talk. I like classic, memorable lines. Witty banter. Oh, I love the banter. A bit of hidden flirting? Good stuff. Dialogue, for me, is so important that it pretty much rules everything else moot. If I LIKE watching their scenes purely because their interaction together is good, I'm sold. Now...does zutara have these? No, because it's fake ;p Would it? I dunno...the writers of this show have had one hit, one tie and two misses for me as far as romance is concerned. Honestly seems to late for anything like I might have wanted. Does kataang have these? Since it's canon, we can actually evaluate what we've got. Development: certainly has that. Been coming for a long time...a long...long time. The subtlety I enjoy is absent. They've certainly put care into it, so under other circumstances I would be ok. Realism: The crushing thing was real. Until it got old for me. Now people are talking about this amazing, life transcending bond with rebirth of nations and such. I'm out. Plus, they do have that "perfect" syndrome going. Blech. Dialogue: most important. And biggest miss. Where is the good dialogue? Where are the memorable lines? The wit? The back-and-forth? Most of what they do is talk serious business. The rest of the time it's awkwardness...I don't like it when it's nothing but awkwardness. I just can't think of a good "moment" for me. The dance was good, but they didn't actually talk. No good, light-hearted scenes between the two of them. Here's an example of a "moment" I like from another show. www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-JSJhDMyw&feature=relatedThe end verdict? My imagination and expectations for what doesn't exist causes a boost that could probably not be accurately represented in this show, so I don't have much hope, but I still hold out that zutara COULD have been pretty good. Right now my biggest hope is that Suki developes a personality so I can enjoy that romance ;p
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Dec 30, 2007 3:03:45 GMT -5
I love the Lost relationships.
ya Yice, i actually what youve said, however i should point out that people are pointing out all the spiritual epic stuff of kataang out just to combat the whole notion that kataang a stale, boring, cliche with nothing behind it but "boy who is friends with girl starts to crush on girl. about a week agao a group of zutarans were laying on that pretty heavaly.
but despite all the depth that has been mentioned here, the realationship really does feel quite realistic/balanced/down to earth. do they have witty banter, subtle flirting, and hidden innuendo? no. they are kids in a kids show. no avatar relationship will have that.
but I feel it meets the rest of your criteria.
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Castoro Chiaro
Buzzard Wasp
This is Scout! Rainbowz make me cry!
Posts: 523
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Post by Castoro Chiaro on Dec 30, 2007 3:22:47 GMT -5
People IMO make Aang's age a double standard. They want him to be adult and make adult choices (like giving Katara up for the world, stopping the war, etc.) but yet he is too young to love emotionally like an adult. Two words. THANK. YOU. Took the words right out of my mouth, really. I just DON'T get how "growing up and being mature" means "NO LOVE 4 U!!!11" It's like Aang has to sacrifice ALL future happiness for himself before the fandom is happy. Yes, the heroic journey is all about sacrifices and what a hero is willing to give up, but COME ON. He needs SOMETHING to look forward to after the war! Wow...I've noticed these 'Kataang vs. Zutara' debates often turn into arguments over Kataang...at any point will Zutara be discussed?
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