Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
|
Post by Zenjamin on Oct 10, 2007 23:08:53 GMT -5
"Not the face you'd expect from an honest to goodness hero. This has nothing to do with Katara but his joyous expression as he dumps molten lava onto the factory equipment was really disturbing. "
LOL. lighten up. like you wouldnt look the same way doing the same thing. i Personally would love poring lava all over a corprate factory who is way worse then corporations like Enron that we have today.
except that this factory is not only killing its own citizens but also other people with the weapons it is dishing out.
this is war. even if workers did die in the factory destruction, i wouldnt think any less of aang or katara.
|
|
Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Firework on Oct 10, 2007 23:51:32 GMT -5
"Not the face you'd expect from an honest to goodness hero. This has nothing to do with Katara but his joyous expression as he dumps molten lava onto the factory equipment was really disturbing. " LOL. lighten up. like you wouldnt look the same way doing the same thing. i Personally would love poring lava all over a corprate factory who is way worse then corporations like Enron that we have today. except that this factory is not only killing its own citizens but also other people with the weapons it is dishing out. this is war. even if workers did die in the factory destruction, i wouldnt think any less of aang or katara. No, I wouldn't look like a sadist if I was doing that. Aang- the lovable and sweet hero- is pouring deadly molten lava onto the factory equipment... am I the only one who is disturbed by this? Even though the factory is evil, should Aang be that happy when he didn't care for those poor villagers AT ALL? When Katara was deeply bothered by their suffering Aang just told her they should get their things and leave, only when Katara asked Aang to help her help the villagers did he want too. He was even laughing about the explosions! His expression to pouring molten lava was practically sadistic... that's harsh but that was what his face reminded me of.
|
|
Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
|
Post by Zenjamin on Oct 11, 2007 0:03:25 GMT -5
ya. i think you are the only one who feel that way.
i would have a blast in aangs shoes.
as it was mentioned befor, Aang and sokka were right in wanting to leave. but once the whole painted lady thing aang was right in wanting to help katara. they couldnt just leave after katara had made the people dependent on her.
but blowing Stuff up can be verry theriputic. especially if its evil stuff.
you should try it sometime. i lived in an area where there was much gang violence. my friend shot and killed someone (complete self-defense). it tore, him up. he was a mess. we made a home-made explosive and blew up the gun. he was able to let go after that. true story... not exactly the same thing, but still. sometimes you just feel... lighter after destroying something destructive.
EDIT: "but blowing philoprogenitiveness up can be verry theriputic. especially if its evil philoprogenitiveness." WTH? thats an odd way to sensor out "shit"
|
|
|
Post by mahatista on Oct 11, 2007 1:29:53 GMT -5
While I don't share Firework's passion I have to agree that there was a village elsewhere that was dependent on the income of that factory. That said, I'm also for destroying the factory. Not because of pollution but because of the product. Because it's war, which apparently is forgotten as reason for doing anything when pollution is thrown into the mix. I can even see it in my mind's eye: Sokka hearing the factory aids the war effort, his eyebrow goes up, the wheels start turning, a plan is created, and voila! they save a polluted town as a result. Or wouldn't it have been logical to have some of the towns people work at that factory? Or to mention that they only take on people from the capitol to work at the factory so while the village doesn't get the benefit, they get the filth? Would that be so hard?
This episode was almost a repudiation of everything we know of Sokka and his desire to defeat the Fire Nation. If he thinks the only thing they need to do is take a ragtag group (his own words) and attack during an eight minute eclipse to win the war, ignoring FN assets along the way, he's an idiot and so are all those who follow his lead. But we know Sokka isn't like that because in seasons 1 and 2 he was always looking at the angles. Maybe the pollution of the Fire Nation has started to destroy his brain and given him a complete personality change (sarcasm).
The whole pollution theme ended up being shallow because nothing was really explored about it. And I'm not talking about a CNN style special on war and what it does to the environment, I'm talking about a simple nod (maybe instead of a stupid hat gag) to the reality of the situation. It can be done in a few words. They mentioned the length of the eclipse and got that out of the way (although now the stupidity of the plan is clear and I'm wondering if at 7min 59seconds into the Black Sun invasion they'll realize they've invaded and now they're trapped on enemy ground with no way to get out as the fire benders regain their power), so they could deal with a few essential tasks of logic IMO. Or maybe that's what they DON'T want to deal with because they've gotten themselves in a bit of a corner with their eclipse storyline and the facts of such a silly plan just don't add up.
*shrug* -- I'm still excited to see this week's episode. The two minute clip looked really good.
|
|
yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
|
Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 1:44:08 GMT -5
^I think you mistake the goal of the plan.
It's an assassination, not an invasion. Right now, without an army, their main goal is to stop Ozai before he can use the Comet. Because when that happens, the war is done for good. This is their best and only chance to take out Ozai.
Also, just think of the crippling blow to moral it would be on the Fire Nation if their leader is killed right in the safety of his palace. Just think of the hope it will provide the citizens of the Earth Kingdom. Maybe enough to revolt?
Don't poo-poo the plan unless there's a better alternative, my friend. Because right now, they have no other choice.
If they don't stop Ozai by Summer's End, the war's done.
|
|
|
Post by mahatista on Oct 11, 2007 2:27:11 GMT -5
^^ I don't like the plan. It seems like a suicide mission for exactly the reason I said. They'll end up having invaded and have exactly eight minutes to do something (an assassination only takes one person-- if that was their only purpose they'd sneak Aang in) and then get away as the fire benders get their power back. Even with the whole Earth Kingdom army the odds would be vastly against them. The Fire Nation has tons of weapons -- although Aang did take out a whole fleet and many are in the EK right now pacifying it -- and their weapons aren't dependent on bending. Regardless, the episode in question -- The Painted Lady -- ended up being shallow (to me) because the pollution theme wasn't even explored to any real extent in context with the war. And like I said, I doubt that the Sokka we've gotten to know would ignore the possibility of taking out FN assets along the way to the capitol. In fact, I feel like he'd be the one to suggest it in all seriousness (not that facetious way he did in TPL). And a better alternative than the Black Sun invasion is to launch a covert mission into the palace and kill the Fire Lord on that day. They could do it. But that doesn't bring back Teo and the War Balloons so we've got to do this other thing which will end badly unless they abandon logic altogether. In my humble opinion of course. And now I have poo-poo'd enough. The Great Divide is still the worst episode...so far.
|
|
Argyle Bender
Jet
A tiny plaid bender's worst nightmare.
Posts: 370
|
Post by Argyle Bender on Oct 11, 2007 2:27:22 GMT -5
No, I wouldn't look like a sadist if I was doing that. Aang- the lovable and sweet hero- is pouring deadly molten lava onto the factory equipment... am I the only one who is disturbed by this? ... His expression to pouring molten lava was practically sadistic... that's harsh but that was what his face reminded me of. Deadly? Machine parts don't have lives! They don't have feelings! He's pouring molten lava on it and destroying it, looking happy, as he should, because it's ending the production of weapons for killing, ending pollution that is crippling the livelihood of a village, and it's probably pretty fun. Haven't you watched fireworks? Same deal, only this is actually helping people as well as looking cool. "Sadistic" means taking pleasure in another person's pain. I don't know where you get that. As to the factory workers--let's be serious. They probably weren't exactly getting dental. Even if they were just jolly in those jobs (making war machinery) guess what happens to employment when there's a factory to be rebuilt? Construction is a huge part of an economy, and employs more people than simply maintaining the place would. That being said...I didn't much care for the episode, but that was mostly because it was frivolous and formulaic. Predictable. Boring. But I'm certainly not offended by it.
|
|
yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
|
Post by yiceman on Oct 11, 2007 2:42:33 GMT -5
An assassination could be played off by the government as "The Fire Lord died peacefully in his sleep,"
No, seems to me that the moral effects are just as important. Suicide mission? Maybe. If they can take out the Fire Lord and encourage the other Nations to keep fighting in one fell swoop, they've won.
Their goal is plain...attack the capital. Shatter the Fire Nation's vision of safety. Bring the war to their doorsteps. They don't have a big enough army to fight the war on other fronts, and they don't have the time to build up their forces.
So, you have a small army, limited time before certain doom, and a single window of opportunity...and they're taking it.
It's an act of desperation, because these are desperate times. No doubt Sokka's original plan was to bring in all the armies the Earth King had to spare...continue a war on the Fire Nation's home front.
But now they have no army. What should they do? Give up?
Assassinate the Fire Lord quietly? To what end? He'll just be replaced by another man who could access the comet. No, they need to go in, and sieze the capital. If they can hold out until the comet's passed, they've won. It's their best hope. It's their ONLY hope.
So again I say...there is no other way.
|
|
nandireya
Zuko's Path to Redemption Mod
...tickled pink...
Posts: 6,822
|
Post by nandireya on Oct 11, 2007 3:36:03 GMT -5
Which is where the (hopefully) enlightened Zuko and the Fire Nation peasantry come in...
|
|
|
Post by mike1921 on Oct 11, 2007 5:09:42 GMT -5
no. It's equipment. INANIMATE OBJECTS! Did you ever see a funeral for a piece of factory equipment?? I doubt Aang didn't care at all. He just decided getting to the firelord quicker is the smarter thing to do,and maybe he didn't think that they can do things that big for the town. Dude,the first time she saw him he was in a warship,and then he proved that he's an untrustable enemy. Or he's my dog, or REALLY SMART to the point where Katara can train him to do that. So your saying they should of kept the factory up because people may lose their job??
|
|
Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Firework on Oct 11, 2007 9:06:02 GMT -5
Deadly? Machine parts don't have lives! They don't have feelings! He's pouring molten lava on it and destroying it, looking happy, as he should, because it's ending the production of weapons for killing, ending pollution that is crippling the livelihood of a village, and it's probably pretty fun. Haven't you watched fireworks? Same deal, only this is actually helping people as well as looking cool. "Sadistic" means taking pleasure in another person's pain. I don't know where you get that. His expression REMINDED me of a sadist, really harsh word I know but I couldn't think of another that could explain my feelings. Come on, it's Aang! Even if he is the jolly and sweet one I didn't think he would be smiling like that while destroying stuff- it just didn't seem right regardless of the reason. Molten LAVA is deadly, something doesn't have to have feelings to be deadly. As to the factory workers--let's be serious. They probably weren't exactly getting dental. Even if they were just jolly in those jobs (making war machinery) guess what happens to employment when there's a factory to be rebuilt? Construction is a huge part of an economy, and employs more people than simply maintaining the place would. Factory workers can't suddenly grow construction working abilities. If the factory is destroyed as badly as it was then those workers would be out of jobs and construction workers and the like would have to be hired to fix everything. What's wrong with sabotage? This is Nick, why couldn't they have shown Aang and Katara sabotage the factory rather than destroy it? I'm not trying to defend war or polluting the environment but shouldn't a show on Nickelodeon promote non-violent ways to handle a factory (Ozai is a different matter)? Though in the long run the factory would be up and running.... you know what, forget it. This episode is so stupid that it forced all the violence and danger onto itself and no one argued about it!
|
|
Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
|
Post by Firework on Oct 11, 2007 9:16:40 GMT -5
no. It's equipment. INANIMATE OBJECTS! Did you ever see a funeral for a piece of factory equipment?? No. Just the fact that Aang was enjoying destroying so much disturbed me. NOT THE FACT THAT HE WAS DESTROYING MACHINERY! Thank you. Okay, then why did Katara say: "He might be sick of the purple berries I've been feeding him, but other than that he's fine." Instead of "I told Appa to pretend to be sick" or something like that. So your saying they should of kept the factory up because people may lose their job?? No, where did I ever say that? I'm saying that it's rather unfair that the entire factory was labeled evil and no concern or thought was given to anyone that was affiliated with the factory; not even a thought. It's the same thing with the treatment towards the FN except with the Fire Nation we know that despite the evil government there are genuinely good people of FN heritage. The argument of the factory workers doesn't really matter anyway since no one besides the evil man and his cronies was ever seen.
|
|
|
Post by Alouncara on Oct 11, 2007 10:35:34 GMT -5
Stop all the hate and crap about the episode! Even the worst Avatar episodes would still be in atleast the middle of the other anime shows! In the Painted Lady the Main point was to clean the village and get the appriciaton from the spirit. I doubt that is last we'll see of the Painted Lady! I mean all she said was 'Thank you...' Katara cleaned the village, healed the sick, fed the hungry and detroyed the factory! I'd be a little more grateful if I was that sprit xD I'd wanna giv all could back
|
|
|
Post by mahatista on Oct 11, 2007 10:41:22 GMT -5
An assassination could be played off by the government as "The Fire Lord died peacefully in his sleep," No, seems to me that the moral effects are just as important. Suicide mission? Maybe. If they can take out the Fire Lord and encourage the other Nations to keep fighting in one fell swoop, they've won. Their goal is plain...attack the capital. Shatter the Fire Nation's vision of safety. Bring the war to their doorsteps. They don't have a big enough army to fight the war on other fronts, and they don't have the time to build up their forces. So, you have a small army, limited time before certain doom, and a single window of opportunity...and they're taking it. It's an act of desperation, because these are desperate times. No doubt Sokka's original plan was to bring in all the armies the Earth King had to spare...continue a war on the Fire Nation's home front. But now they have no army. What should they do? Give up? Assassinate the Fire Lord quietly? To what end? He'll just be replaced by another man who could access the comet. No, they need to go in, and sieze the capital. If they can hold out until the comet's passed, they've won. It's their best hope. It's their ONLY hope. So again I say...there is no other way. I don't think they can hold the capitol with their tiny force especially if many of them are killed in the invasion. I think the way to win is to take out strategic assets through sabotage before the Black Sun invasion so that when they assassinate the Fire Lord, they've left the country in chaos. And if they did it covertly it wouldn't matter if they put in another strongman (it would be Azula or Zuko anyway I think) because they'd go off and keep their factories and shipyards in chaos with their mischief. An invasion would only be successful if the FN military is already scrambling. So that's why I think it was good for them to take out the factory only I thought they should have done it so it looked like an industrial accident. And they certainly shouldn't have shown themselves to the villagers (of course that may have been a necessity to help them be tracked down). But as enjoyable as this discussion is Yice, I'm afraid we're getting off-topic. ---I would have said all this last night but I lost my connection to DH and couldn't get it back--- And as I said before (hopping back on topic) -- The Great Divide is still the worst.
|
|
|
Post by Alouncara on Oct 11, 2007 10:56:06 GMT -5
It would be better to go and take the generals down one by one.. Like Azula had the Dai Li do
|
|