FireRani
Toph
Modest Ruler of the World
The best thing about you is by the time you realize this doesn?t say anything you?ve already read it
Posts: 167
|
Post by FireRani on Dec 30, 2007 22:57:30 GMT -5
That's a good point but I have to disagree.
Number one Katara and Azula's situation were completely different. There were never any water benders in the South Pole to teach Katara water bending while Azula was surrounded by master fire benders. So comparing Katara's bending process to Azula's doesn't really work.
Also when Katara finally found a master she was the best water bender there compared to all the other boys who had probably been training a lot longer than she had. Not to mention she is Aang's master now and she has to be some kind of good for her master to think that she was ready to accept that kind of responsibilty. You don't just pick anybody to train the Avatar.
|
|
|
Post by beautyfr.pain on Dec 31, 2007 0:22:25 GMT -5
Dude, I just read all 6 pages and I think you guys just turned half my brain to MUSH. well, most of the six pages. I had to skim spiritbender's novel length posts Anyways, I don't think Katara is a prodigy, just someone who had great work ethic, determination, skill, and talent. If Katara had been a prodigy, she would have been naturally good at waterbending from the start/childhood. And a lot of people seem to forget that Toph basically taught herself too. She had a master to train her but if you remember he only taught her the basics because he didn't think a blind girl could handle any actual hardcore earthbending. If we're going by the definition of a prodigy being someone who masters something at a young age, then TECHNICALLY, you could consider Toph as being a prodigy because she's only 12 but I digress. Azula, Toph, and Katara are basically like different classes of talented people. Azula happened to be a natural at firebending and had many nurturing masters to make her who she is today: a massively powerful firebender. Some of you guys don't give her enough credit. She still has cunning, but it's still true that her fighting tactic of just forcing tons of power in her opponent's face is pretty rigid, but she's just SO mindblowing-ly POWERFUL, that it works most of the time. I think Toph was a natural. She basically became a master by teaching herself utilizing vibrations. I'm not exactly sure if that classifies her as a prodigy, but I don't want to get too deep into that because that's not the point of this thread Now KATARA, is a late-bloomer which sort of cancels out the chances of her being a prodigy but for all we know, she could have been if she'd had people to train her. Being the only waterbender in the South Pole is a very special circumstance on her part. It IS possible for people to learn things extremely quickly without being prodigies if they're determined enough and have talent. One of the biggest examples I can think of is in terms of musicians. They'll be a person who is a fast learner with talent. They'll decide to play an instrument at a late age, but determined to catch up and be the best, they practice diligently until they eventually surpass a ton of their peers and end up being the master solo-ist in the Jacksonville orchestra or something. Happy ending. So basically, no, Katara is not a prodigy in my opinion, but a late learner with steadfast determination and a lot of power and natural talent. There's nothing wrong with it. She does deserve major cred for becoming a young master without being a prodigy though. I liked the Mozart and Beethoven comparison though. Both were AMAZING composers, but one was a prodigy while the other wasn't, but that didn't mean one was better then the other. Sometimes I think people who AREN'T prodigy deserve more credit for reaching the skill of prodigies without being one... Also when Katara finally found a master she was the best water bender there compared to all the other boys who had probably been training a lot longer than she had. Not to mention she is Aang's master now and she has to be some kind of good for her master to think that she was ready to accept that kind of responsibilty. You don't just pick anybody to train the Avatar. My sister was reading over my shoulder and wanted me to point out that there wasn't really any choice for who to choose to teach Aang because she's the only waterbender available Aang just so happen to be lucky enough to pick up a hot waterbending chick that had enough talent to learn it so quickly But I think if Katara had been really horrible, Pakku could have personally picked one of his own students to go on the trip, but that would ruin the plot. XDD (Wow, I just sort of contradicted my own post...)
|
|
truwaterbender
Avatar Kuruk
What? I'm supposed to put something witty here?
Posts: 1,443
|
Post by truwaterbender on Dec 31, 2007 10:39:50 GMT -5
^^Basically we're inferring that Azula had teachers because she is a member of the royal family, and she went to the "Royal Fire Academy for Girls". Also, Lo and Li seemed to be teachers to Azula, since they were critiquing her practice of lightning-bending. In the flashback during Zuko alone, there were references to the lessons that both Azula and Zuko were having, as well as a demonstration of how much more quickly Azula was progressing in those lessons. It's not too much of a stretch to conclude that members of the royal family would have access to some of the greatest firebending teachers from a very young age. But anyways, as I said before, the question of whether or not Katara is a "prodigy" seems to be a matter of splitting of verbal hairs. Whether or not one chooses to give her that label, it's quite clear that Katara is both extraordinarily talented, and she works incredibly hard to reach her potential. When she reaches her full potential, she will be among the greatest benders in the world, and at a level that Azula could never hope to match. -- SpiritBender I definitly agree. But IF Katara gets to that level will it been seen on the show? Or will the season end all too soon? But it is one of my beleifs that someday Azula will find out beiing a prodigy isn't enogh. She needs to match an oppenents talent and skill. In my opinion Katara HAS passed Azula in skill but it took her far long but ecause of her time and effort she has mastered her element much well better than azula. Uhh I think I copied you again sory...
|
|
Ming Ue
Haru
MingZula: The one true ship!
Posts: 341
|
Post by Ming Ue on Jan 5, 2008 21:47:07 GMT -5
even though Spiritbender will pwn me I will state these few opinions of mine:
Katara is a main female lead character and in the first season the only main girl: YOU CAN NEVER EVER HAVE A FEMALE LEAD WHO IS USELESS! ESPECIALLY IF SHE'S THE ONLY GIRL!
In Naruto, Sakura, was the most hated character because she couldn't do anything.
Katara is powerful, because if she wasn't she would have the same appeal. She would just be the hot-head motherly chick.
So is she a prodigy...probably, but only because otherwise she would be...useless
As for Katara being able to beat Azula. Katara has beaten both Fire Siblings in situations when the elements were in her favor. It was a full moon when she beat Zuko and it was night and underground when she almost beat Azula.
PLUS, Azula didn't even take Katara as seriously during that match, she was moving alot slower than she did in her other fights
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Jan 6, 2008 11:19:16 GMT -5
^^It was daylight when Katara and Azula fought in the caves. It was daylight at the start of the fight, who knows how long it took them to get out of the cave and find Appa and co. I'm gonna bet it was still daylight during the fight.
Anyway, I'm gonna say Katara is a prodigy. What makes Azula a prodigy? She was born with a talent, right? So was Katara, and she learned of this talent on her own, no other waterbenders there. Azula learned quickly at a young age due to the best teacher around, but who's to say that if Katara had a bunch of teachers at that age she'd wouldn't have learned just as quickly. They just learned at different ages.
Both Azula and Katara were born knowing the gift of their element. So they both had it, it's just that one had to do it alone for a while and learn by herself, and the other had teachers from an early age. Seeing how quickly Katara advanced with a teacher shows me that she'd have done the same thing in her early years(just like Azula), she just didn't have the chance. So what makes Azula a prodigy and Katara not again?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2008 11:43:42 GMT -5
^^It was daylight when Katara and Azula fought in the caves. It was daylight at the start of the fight, who knows how long it took them to get out of the cave and find Appa and co. I'm gonna bet it was still daylight during the fight. Anyway, I'm gonna say Katara is a prodigy. What makes Azula a prodigy? She was born with a talent, right? So was Katara, and she learned of this talent on her own, no other waterbenders there. Azula learned quickly at a young age due to the best teacher around, but who's to say that if Katara had a bunch of teachers at that age she'd wouldn't have learned just as quickly. They just learned at different ages. Both Azula and Katara were born knowing the gift of their element. So they both had it, it's just that one had to do it alone for a while and learn by herself, and the other had teachers from an early age. Seeing how quickly Katara advanced with a teacher shows me that she'd have done the same thing in her early years(just like Azula), she just didn't have the chance. So what makes Azula a prodigy and Katara not again? You took the words right out of my mouth . We all know Azula is a prodigy, and I think Katara is as well. The fact that she taught herself how to bend proves it. When she had Paku as a teacher she improved tremendously. Anger is what drives Azula's bending, and we see what Katara's capable of when she's angry in the first episode. Think of how powerful Katara would be now if she used anger like Azula does. So yes I do think Katara is a prodigy.
|
|
Ming Ue
Haru
MingZula: The one true ship!
Posts: 341
|
Post by Ming Ue on Jan 6, 2008 19:46:53 GMT -5
It was late in the afternoon when they went in. When they left it was late at night so it would have been closer to nighttime.
Even so...Firebenders are weaker underground, giving Katara an advantage over Azula in the fight.
Bending is not 100% skill
|
|
|
Post by zangi on Jan 12, 2008 20:19:41 GMT -5
Dude, I just read all 6 pages and I think you guys just turned half my brain to MUSH. well, most of the six pages. I had to skim spiritbender's novel length posts Congratulations... I only read the first, 5th and 6th page. You make a valid point. If anyone is the prodigy here, its Toph. As for this Katara vs Azula debate... If anything, in comparison to Toph, I would label the two of them as Genius. Yes, Azula has been trained all her early years. And it has been stated, because of that, she is not as free-form, most likely because of a rigid training and her developed need for perfection. Katara? Maybe with her learning style, she just needed a master to guide her. In the words of Zuko: "You little peasant, you found yourself a master didn't you?" (Siege of the North) Maybe, the fact that Katara has been unlearned for so long, she is much more liberal with what can and cannot be done. Which determines how free-form she is. Most of what she did before getting trained is her own idea to begin with. Except for the waterbending scroll. You know.. I'm probably repeating a bunch of things that has been said already... I'll just post this anyways...
|
|
|
Post by theotherairbender on Jan 12, 2008 20:37:34 GMT -5
Well I think that Katara is a prodigy because she learned waterbending so fast and that she learned "bloodbending" only by watching that crazy lady So I think that she is a prodigy.
|
|
ethe
Haru
The Mythological Being
Posts: 335
|
Post by ethe on Jan 15, 2008 21:51:19 GMT -5
Okay, so.. I doubt I can compete with everyone else who posted hoardes of text to defend whatever view they have; But I was convinved this was good... ♥
I think she is a prodigy, growing up as the only waterbender in her tribe for what... 14 years!? Look how far she has come since then; A person can only learn so much. I believe that she's truly naturally talented. Of course being the only bender gives her added incentive; With such dedication, that could also be a reason as to why she's so good at what she does. But, as I’ve said, a person can only learn so much.
I think people are just confused about what a prodigy is. Yeah, most prodigies show exceptional talent at an early age, and I'm not sure how could she was at, say, six years old. But neither does anyone else. That's not the point, though. I guess what I'm trying to say is: What does make her a prodigy is that she didn't lose hope in her gift. No one was around to teach her anything... They didn't know how, they couldn't bend! So everything she learned she must've learned on her own, by herself. While she worked hard each day to develop her bending, Azula, and most other prodigies in real life, have instructors and family to guide and help them.
Repeating myself to drive home my point: Katara had no one to help her until she was in her teens. Simply being able to control her bending, and the little talent she had until she found a teacher, should prove that she's a prodigy....
Okay, end debate. :D Or... if someone disagrees with me, please post!! I'd be happy to, ah... debate. >D
|
|
Horyo
RP Admin
All your bending are belong to us.
Posts: 2,572
|
Post by Horyo on Jan 15, 2008 22:25:38 GMT -5
Katara isn't necessarily a prodigy, seeing as how her bending is really inconsistent. In Lake Laogai, she is seen getting almost captured by only 2 Dai Li agents and then Toph saves her. And just in two episodes with no TRAINING at all, she is seen making giant waves and what not. Her skill all depends on how much water is around her, and the fact her skills vary and in some days are good and others she is weakened enormously, makes it unclear, which is the fault on the writer's fault instead of our own. I don't think you can speculate on this since her skills are so undefined. How she able to defeat so many palace guards in one episode and almost get captured by two Dai Li agents in the next? While I agree with you that her overall range of adaptation to certain situations vary with the amount of water around, I disagree that she didn't just learn to make huge waves, she already knew how. I'd like to bring up a comparison between two battles. In "The Chase" Katara was barely able to halt Azula's final blow to Aang, and free him from the beams of the house. She barely was able to take Azula on. Why? Possibilities: -Lack of water. -Bright sunny day, with dry and arid conditions. While in her fight with Azula again, she foght in the Crystal Catacombs (Crossroads of Destiny) She had many more advantages. -Plentiful supply of water. -No sun had a direct shine on Azula. -It was nearing night. -THe conditions were cooler and presumably moister. These are only physical comparisons, but you get what I mean. Now, whether Katara truly is or is not a Prodigy can be debated over and over again. I for one, believe she is a masterful thinker and creative at what she does. Katara's growth in the North was due to her perseverance and efforts at becoming better. Pakku even made note of this. She does have one thing that many waterbenders lack, world travels/experiences. She learned in the swamp, and from Hama. Katara, like water is adaptive and able to take on new shapes and forms but still retain the ability to revert to their original or standard form. All in all, Katara is a quick-learner, a clever thiinker, and a genius at battle. She also has a a durable will.
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Jan 16, 2008 0:09:55 GMT -5
Okay, so.. I doubt I can compete with everyone else who posted hoardes of text to defend whatever view they have; But I was convinved this was good... ♥ I think she is a prodigy, growing up as the only waterbender in her tribe for what... 14 years!? Look how far she has come since then; A person can only learn so much. I believe that she's truly naturally talented. Of course being the only bender gives her added incentive; With such dedication, that could also be a reason as to why she's so good at what she does. But, as I’ve said, a person can only learn so much. I think people are just confused about what a prodigy is. Yeah, most prodigies show exceptional talent at an early age, and I'm not sure how could she was at, say, six years old. But neither does anyone else. That's not the point, though. I guess what I'm trying to say is: What does make her a prodigy is that she didn't lose hope in her gift. No one was around to teach her anything... They didn't know how, they couldn't bend! So everything she learned she must've learned on her own, by herself. While she worked hard each day to develop her bending, Azula, and most other prodigies in real life, have instructors and family to guide and help them. Repeating myself to drive home my point: Katara had no one to help her until she was in her teens. Simply being able to control her bending, and the little talent she had until she found a teacher, should prove that she's a prodigy.... Okay, end debate. :D Or... if someone disagrees with me, please post!! I'd be happy to, ah... debate. >D I pretty much said the same thing on an earlier page, but you stated it more beautifully than I ever could!! Great job on sayin git perfectly!
|
|
glacian
Aang
I'm not insane. The voices told me so.
Posts: 62
|
Post by glacian on Jan 19, 2008 4:11:40 GMT -5
I would say no. Katara became a master waterbender because she worked hard, not because of natural talent.
|
|
blak_cat
Katara
Avatar by KiwiesRuleXD Why yes I am an Aang fangirl thanx for asking...
Posts: 80
|
Post by blak_cat on Jan 23, 2008 18:50:48 GMT -5
I would say no. Katara became a master waterbender because she worked hard, not because of natural talent. I agree. We saw Azula around age 6-8 and she had already mastered Firebending techniques (whether they were higher level than Zuko's is debatable but is assumed so). Katara at age fourteen was still struggling with basic level techniques. Albeit, Azula most likely got training from a instructor hand-picked by her father and therefore, much better lessons then Katara who got none. After lessons, Katara did become more powerful and was even able to match Azula in combat but that does not mean she's a prodigy. She may be at level with Azula but Azula advanced there much faster than Katara. I give Katara a rating at "Above Average" not quite prodigy.
|
|
|
Post by dragonflly on Jan 24, 2008 23:59:39 GMT -5
The question is: If Katara had the same training that Azula had as a child, would she have picked up on it the same? I believe that yes she would have, she learned just as quickly as Azula did, she just learned at a different age. She was born gifted and learned what she could on her own, and then when she got a teacher she nailed it real fast. Azula was born gifted, but she had trainers and teachers from the day she was born, and she learned fast. The only difference I can really see is that Azula had teachers to give her the disapline at an earlier age. Had Katara had Pakku there when she was a child(and he wasn't being a sexist pig), she would have don the same.
I have a few more things to say, but the eppie is not up for discussion so I will have to wait!
But, yes, I believe she is a prodigy. The only difference in them is one learned earlier than the other, both learned super fast! So yep, she's a prodigy. I wish we could get an answer from M&B, it would be interesting to see what they had to say on this subject!
|
|