The role of Prison

[attonbitus]

What do you think the role of prisons are in our society? Some believe that it's a place to reform criminals, others see it only as a place to isolate bad elements from the general public.

With our (USA) prison system seeming at the bursting point and the number of criminals ever increasing, what other alternatives might be out there?

My personal view: prison time used to be considered a deterrent because of the harsh stigma attached to breaking the law. Now, it's become little more than a revolving door motel where criminals get to go to learn how to become better criminals. Yes it still is a harsh environment where there are fights, degradation, and even deaths. However, for career criminals it's hardly the "boogie man" to scare them straight.

I don't remember who said it exactly but this quote sticks in my mind, "Prison is one of the worst idea ever conceived unless you consider the alternatives."

[CountessRachel]

Ooh excellent topic. We were debating this in English class a few weeks ago.

Prison, at this point, is an institution for isolating criminals away from the "good" part of society. Given the racial make up of prison inmates, I'd say the purpose of prison "devolved" after slavery. After slavery was abolished, there was no place to keep African Americans apart from Whites except ghettos and prisons (in the cities). And given the differences in socioeconomic conditions, it was and (in many ways still is) almost impossible for impoverished people to survive without committing crime.

Now, it's actually like you said attonbitus, a revolving door for criminals teaching other criminals how to improve themselves. Combine that with the fact that:
- influential gang members in prison can recruit other people with shorter sentences
- opportunities for the inmates to strengthen themselves physically instead of mentally, and
- having a criminal record screws people over when they try to get a REAL job, prison only serves to fuel crime (along with illegalized drugs)

As a start of an alternative to prison? Crime starts with poverty and poverty starts with lack of education. We seriously need to pay attention to education, especially at the lower levels. Instead of wasting tax dollars building more prisons, the country should focus on strengthening elementary and middle schools seeing as those are primary determinants in a child's life of whether or not he/she will succeed. Also, it would help if there were more drug information/prevention efforts and affordable rehab centers to curb the demand for narcotics. The less of a demand, the less of a supply.

[Zink]

^ I think that's an excellent idea. Unfortunately, I have nothing much to add to the discussion apart from that.

[Gandalan]

I think that your idea is excellent for keeping people out of poverty and prison, Countess, but what about those that ARE still criminals, and commit crimes?

My opinion on that matter is sure to turn most of you off, but I don't really care...

Prisons should be a bad place. It should not be a place with television, or computers, or games. It should not be a place with good food. It should be absolutely the worst place in the world that complies with regulations to keep people safe and alive. People should be afraid to go there. People should be afraid of violating laws, because they might go to prison.

Now, first off, I'm not saying that people WANT to be in prison. That's a stupid argument. My point is that they are MUCH too luxurious. I agree that more money needs to be spent on education: what better place to get it than from the excess amount of money spent on prisons?

Like I said, that sounds like a horrible torture dungeon, but hey, what is a prison BUT a dungeon? It isn't supposed to be fluffy and nice. It's supposed to be a concrete nightmare. It's supposed to be someplace that's like hell on earth, minus the torture and other unlawful abuses. I'm sorry if that horrifies you all, but that's my view.

[CountessRachel]

Just because a prison has a TV and table tennis doesn't make it a fluffy funland. Those extra activities are what we call "privileges." In most cases, those things are allowed to prisoners who commit fairly mild crimes and don't cause trouble for the guards or the other inmates. It's supposedly a form of the "reward/punishment" system. Same thing with parents--if a kid misbehaves, he gets TV time taken away or his cell phone privileges revoked or can't go to the ball game that weekend. If he starts to shape up and act right, he gets those things back.

Plus, a guy caught selling a few ounces of crack cocaine simply isn't on the same level as a serial rapist. Ergo, their punishment conditions won't be on the same level either.

Besides, this day and age, you make prison a "living hell on earth," there's gonna be a group of people bound to adapt to it. The only unbearable condition that I can think of that would surely scare people away from prison is a life sentence of perpetual solitary confinement...course, that's already been deemed unconstitutional.

[Gandalan]

Ah, that's right, I apologize. I was basing my argument purely off of big time offenses, sorry. ^^; I did a research paper on that for extra credit last year, and used my ideas from there without remembering the big criminal offenses was the basis for it. Sorry.

[attonbitus]

I think another facet that people tend to over look but is equally important is people that actually prison staff. Lets face it, it's not a luxurious job or even that safe but we still need jailers. I honestly don't know if there's a guard shortage or not but i can only assume that the amount of new guards getting hired is not on pace with the growing inmate population.

Reducing poverty is a start but what about those that do not WANT to be educated? I'm sure most people have encounter these types of people at some point in their schooling. They would just rather be somewhere else than at school. At some point these people would need money one way or another and possibly resort to some type of criminal behavior.

Beyond just education reform, there would need to be a program that's a "hand up, not a hand out". What I'm getting at is JOBS. Just being educated isn't enough, there must be well paying jobs available to these people. However, with manufacturing and other unskilled jobs heading over seas it makes it harder and harder for these people to get ahead.

[Annapurna1]

theatlantic.com/issues/98dec/prisons.htm (ancient article)...

the role of prisons??...a cash cow for halliburton..naturally...

[CountessRachel]

Another major problem with this country is the literacy rate which plays a huge factor in whether or not a kid wants to be in school, let alone actual excel. I see what you mean attonbitus about the economy shifting overseas. That's why I advocate amping our education system even more; and not just university path educations but technical paths as well. Jobs like plumbers, electricians, construction workers, mechanics and other technical-savvy positions are often overlooked. For some odd reason, the word "vocational" has a negative connotation to it--at least, it did in my highschool. We're constantly spending billions of dollars in foregone labor, prison construction and maintenance, and regional court expenses.

[attonbitus]

I think the "hand up" and vocational jobs are hand in hand. Just as an example, the other day I say a wanted sign by this warehouse for "experienced fork lift drivers". The thought that popped in my head was, "where do you even go to learn something like that?"

Here was another interesting that occurred to me. Air traffic controllers are currently in a "crisis" with their numbers being so low that they're predicting that a major accident is going to occur unless they get some help. Looks like a perfect situation for a "hand up".

Ultimately, I don't think prisons will ever be completely done a way with completely. However, for our society's stability we should do the most we can to help give hope to those who feel left out of the american dream.