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Post by mahatista on Sept 9, 2007 21:10:49 GMT -5
::::::::headdesk::::::: My loves, please comfort my boggled mind of how Katara and Aang are like Mary and Jesus (grins profusely) Well even without the Pieta image thrust in our faces in CoD, Mary and Jesus are archtypal as blessed mother and savior son. That's enough to make the comparison without you slamming your head against your desk. It's not the first time it's been talked about on these boards for Aang's sake.
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Post by mindbender18 on Sept 9, 2007 21:11:49 GMT -5
yeah but Aang and Katara aren't
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Post by laurenshine on Sept 9, 2007 21:12:04 GMT -5
I have a hard time believing the Pieta image at the end of CoD was an accident. What about in the commentary Lauren? Did they say anything about that? It was pretty striking, but I've been surprised/disappointed before by intentions that were different than I expected. I don't recall, but I'll watch it again to make sure. I really remember them talking about Zuko and his inner struggle during a good portion of the episode. But I don't know about that scene... I'll look for it. @rocio: Wow, thanks for that. power: Well, I think they mean that Aang is pretty much the messiah of the Avatar world, and Katara has always been sort of the mother figure toward him. It might be more complex than that, but I'm tired and don't want to think. xD
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Post by rocio on Sept 9, 2007 21:12:55 GMT -5
yeah but Aang and Katara aren't Believe it is; you cannot discuss something that is a fact. wanna read my post again?
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Post by Amira on Sept 9, 2007 21:13:07 GMT -5
::::::::headdesk::::::: My loves, please comfort my boggled mind of how Katara and Aang are like Mary and Jesus (grins profusely) I've always wondered that myself considering Katara seems more like a follower and supporter of Aang. Can't zutara happen without turning Katara into Aang's mother? it might have "pieta-like" imagery, but it is a far far far stretch to turn that into Maternal Katara with Aang. I saw it as a young girl grieving and holding and protecting someone she cares about. How else was she supposed to hold him or sit?
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Sept 9, 2007 21:15:27 GMT -5
yeah but Aang and Katara aren't Aang can be viewed as the savior as the world, and Katara as the blessed mother-figure of him. The image of the Pieta in CoD says that they do have a mother/son kind of relationship, and I'm kind of hoping this isn't going to be like Tamaki and Haruhi in Ouran High School Host Club, if anybody knows what I mean. >.< It might have "pieta-like" imagery, but it is a far far far stretch to turn that into Maternal Katara with Aang. I saw it as a young girl grieving and holding and protecting someone she cares about. I don't really think that it's that far of a strech. Pieta is of a mother and her son, obviously grieving over her lost child. Katara and Aang were in almost the exact same position as an extremely well-known sculpture of mother and child, the symbolism there is kind of overwhelming.
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Post by rocio on Sept 9, 2007 21:16:54 GMT -5
As we see in the show; is based in he occidental culture. Were they believe in the destiny.
In the case of Aang; he is in what is called Messianic trip.; Where a community wants to recover the lost thing; and his leader has a mesiático role: its birth/arrival was predestined, prophesied, like his to destiny.
He is a more traditional hero: separated of its parents when being born, discovers who he is truely when being older, flees from that destiny, commits errors, accepts its destiny, gains followers, makes miracles, it has an important death and revives ....... Or simply it has a very glorious death and a baby is named just as he: indicating metafóricamente certain reincarnation and eternal life; `since he never will be forgotten.
And in his case; his destiny is innvitable....... Thtas always the end in his case. He doesn't like his destiny, but he learns to accpet it: because of him depends all the world.
The one of Zuko is what is called.....
Outward journey: in where the hero must go away, he is forced to go away. Or it leaves in search of something. Or the three together things as in the case of Zuko that was exiled, far from their home and look for the Avatar so to to return.
The personage moves in time and space. In search of a clear objective; to capture the Avatar to return to its home.
The hero of the outward journey always looks for to return to his home.
*A previous order
*A long and dangerous passage
*A confrontation, one fights, a duel.
*A love aid
*A fled rough
* victorious return to its home.
One does not know exactly what looks this style of hero: and this is because as in the case of Zuko: he end up determined to look for the Avatar and his objective change until nonknowledge what is exactly what looks for. Since Zuko looks for its honor.
The hero of outward journey, that is Zuko, is not necessarily a good person; of there what the dualidad of the hero comes from. Since it comes from the Greeks: of “the Odyssey” and his second part “the Iliad”.
Since once this hero returns to his home; one is whereupon it has not changed the place where it lived. But that he has changed, no longer he is himself. And no longer there is place for him in that world that he once called home.
Zuko has managed to return to its home; of a victorious way. Defeating BSS. But it will see, that its home no longer is plus its home. Since not only this has changed, he has changed too.
The hero of the outward journey; returns to its home to impose order.
Since when returning is everything disordered.
When returning:
*None recognizes him
*He finds with uncontrol
* The things have changed
*He no longer belongs to that world and must go away. Or decides to put order. And it prepares everything to his new person or returns to go away.
GUYS......
DON'T MAKE POST AGAIN WHY IS THE PIETE!!!
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Post by Everwen45 on Sept 9, 2007 21:18:04 GMT -5
::::::::headdesk::::::: My loves, please comfort my boggled mind of how Katara and Aang are like Mary and Jesus (grins profusely) I've always wondered that myself considering Katara seems more like a follower and supporter of Aang. Can't zutara happen without turning Katara into Aang's mother? I have to agree with that one. If anything, Katara could be a sister, so, c'mon. Yeah, I understand the analogy you all are making with the whole Pieta thing, but, please, lets not turn this into an Oedipus complex. Yes, Aang fills the role of a messianic hero, but so does Superman.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Sept 9, 2007 21:19:40 GMT -5
'Sup Zutarians? Just dropping by to spill some info:
Yes, they did mention the Pieta image during the audio commentary. From what I remember, they mentioned that the Pieta image was there to represent Aang as a fallen savior. As for the Mary and Jesus = Katara and Aang parallel, I don't see it. Katara is very motherly, this is true, but she's motherly to everybody else. To me, Katara isn't Aang's mother figure. She does comfort him, but I don't think you'd count their relationship as Mother/Son-like. If anything, it's a "I got your back" relationship, in both fighting terms and emotional terms.
Also, If you wanna make any parallels with Christianity, then I think it's more accurate to portray Aang and Katara as Jesus and Mary Madgalene.
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Sept 9, 2007 21:19:41 GMT -5
*pulls beard and headdesks once again*
*chuckles* Seriously guys, I dont think a mother and son would fall in love with each other now. Aang was fatally injured, and Katara made a diving save to prevent him from hitting the ground.
Now can we end this Oedipus stuff, its making my head spin for real.
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Post by Amira on Sept 9, 2007 21:20:19 GMT -5
I've always wondered that myself considering Katara seems more like a follower and supporter of Aang. Can't zutara happen without turning Katara into Aang's mother? I have to agree with that one. If anything, Katara could be a sister, so, c'mon. Yeah, I understand the analogy you all are making with the whole Pieta thing, but, please, lets not turn this into an Oedipus complex. Yes, Aang fills the role of a messianic hero, but so does Superman. Thank you. It is rather tiresome to see every beautiful moment between the two reduced to: "Katara's his mommy-figure." Zutara can happen without turning Aang into a needy child and Katara his ready made mother. I wish more people would accept that logic.
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Sept 9, 2007 21:22:56 GMT -5
Zutara can happen without turning Aang into a needy child and Katara his ready made mother. I wish more people would accept that logic. I can accept that logic. Right now, I'm thinking more about what the Pieta image in CoD means to Katara and Aang and the storyline in general, not just how it affects Zutara. >.<
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Post by mahatista on Sept 9, 2007 21:27:10 GMT -5
I've always wondered that myself considering Katara seems more like a follower and supporter of Aang. Can't zutara happen without turning Katara into Aang's mother? I have to agree with that one. If anything, Katara could be a sister, so, c'mon. Yeah, I understand the analogy you all are making with the whole Pieta thing, but, please, lets not turn this into an Oedipus complex. Yes, Aang fills the role of a messianic hero, but so does Superman. It's not necessarily Oedipal for a man to fall in love with someone who mothers him. I mean it happens in real life all the time. But we're not talking about real life are we? Katara is not necessarily the follower. In the desert she was completely in charge of everyone which was yet another episode when she was cast in the "mother" role. Even to Toph asking for more water in the most child-like voice we've ever heard from her. I don't think it's sick to cast someone in the maternal role and to have someone get a crush on her. Boys do it with favorite teachers all the time (NOT talking about MKL -- no panties in a bunch please). Men do it with nurses. Mothering is womanly and Katara is beautiful so it isn't such a stretch. I don't think anyone is saying she's cast in the role of his actual mother, just the maternal figure of the group. However, as I said just a few posts ago, season 3 could change things. Katara could take less of a motherly role, but Aang is cast in the savior role regardless. Heck she even says it at the beginning "but I believe Aang will save the world."
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Post by Everwen45 on Sept 9, 2007 21:28:53 GMT -5
@rocio: I'm taking you're information is taken from Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces", and while I do understand your point with Zuko, the problem is that he is not a hero and his journey is too far away from being over, so, while you can't say he changed and he doesn't feel his home the same, you can't say he has have the hero's journey, unlike Aang, who is having it, because he is a hero. Now, what Campbell says, and what are we to see when season three ends, is that if the hero survives his journey, he either returns home or takes the gift that is given to him at the end of the journey. This is no some news, this is basically how every single myth in the history of humankind is constructed, the stories of Osiris, Prometheus, Moses, Buddha, and Christ are examples of that.
@mahatista: She does have the role of the mama hen of the gaang, the problem is when her relationship with Aang is merely reduced to that, which a lot of people do.
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Post by mahatista on Sept 9, 2007 21:31:19 GMT -5
Also, If you wanna make any parallels with Christianity, then I think it's more accurate to portray Aang and Katara as Jesus and Mary Madgalene. Absolutely not. Mary Magdalene was a prostitute and her purpose was to show Jesus' inclusiveness when all others, even his own disciples shunned her. No parallel with Katara at all.
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