Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 4, 2007 2:03:42 GMT -5
Rawles made a good post about Zuko and Katara over at ASN. Basically, she commented about how she had this epiphany the other day about this ship. She said that the reason Zuko/Mai is her OTP was mainly because Zuko deserves more than Aang's sloppy seconds. He should be with someone who loved him first for who he was (and most likely still does), Mai, rather than get with the girl whom someone else, Aang, is crushing on. What do you guys think about this?
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 2:04:04 GMT -5
There's this flower that shows up in "The Earth King" while Iroh talks to Zuko about him going through a metamorphosis. It looks blueish and red, and I think some Zutarians found it, capped it, and went "Zutara!". I can't find a cap of it (they don't have it up on AvatarSpirit.Net) but it kind of reminds me of it, I don't know why lol. These flowers? Funny, I just watched that scene, and at the end of it, it flashes to that first image I posted, the flowers part of the main image xD
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 4, 2007 2:05:43 GMT -5
Yup! That was the flower, I remember not catching it at first but when I rewatched "The Earth King" earlier last week I couldn't help but notice it. Also, when I first watched that episode and when he drenched himself in water, I couldn't help but go "Ahuh, Zuko's totally giving a message here." That's just me being silly, though. xD
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 2:08:49 GMT -5
Rawles made a good post about Zuko and Katara over at ASN. Basically, she commented about how she had this epiphany the other day about this ship. She said that the reason Zuko/Mai is her OTP was mainly because Zuko deserves more than Aang's sloppy seconds. He should be with someone who loved him first for who he was (and most likely still does), Mai, rather than get with the girl whom someone else, Aang, is crushing on. What do you guys think about this? I think that is completely wrong. It's just like saying Aang doesn't deserve Katara because he's 112 years old, or that he's 12 and she's 14. Honestly, that's not a reason at all. She's not Aang's sloppy seconds, because she isn't with Aang. A relationship isn't based how long they've known or liked each other, but rather the strength and love of that relationship. Going by what she said, and I'm not meaning to be rude, Mai would love him more than Katara ever could merely because she knew him since they were younger, and thus had a chance before Katara did to fall for him. And Katara doesn't even like Zuko yet. We don't know the circumstances in which they'll fall for each other, if they do at all, so we can't assume anything about the depth of their feelings. Saying that Katara is Aang's sloppy seconds and Zuko doesn't deserve that is just ridiculous. Yup! That was the flower, I remember not catching it at first but when I rewatched "The Earth King" earlier last week I couldn't help but notice it. Also, when I first watched that episode and when he drenched himself in water, I couldn't help but go "Ahuh, Zuko's totally giving a message here." That's just me being silly, though. xD Oh, and now you get me thinking about that But a just saw that scene a minute ago, and I was like, "Oh, that's hawt" (referring to when he drenched himself in water and sloppily drank it all from the bucket) But going along those impossible trains of thought, he used water to try and douse his fever. But then again, who doesn't
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 4, 2007 2:21:17 GMT -5
@lunachaos: Here's her post. I'm just throwing it out there for debate:
And as we discussed and I talked about why the ship doesn't interest me and the two major reasons, besides the vitriolic poison in my blood, that I don't write it (#1 I have no desire to cause Aang that kind of pain, #2 I have a hard time buying Katara's emotional devotion to Aang [and I'm not even speaking romantically, there's just not really any denying the strength of Aang and Katara's bond and how broadly painted as Epic and Transcendent is it in the text] being overridden by much of anything and being someone's emotional priority is sort of necessary to a romantic relationship) and we got into a discussion of Harry Potter shipping and all kinds of fun and wily things and then I had an epiphany. It was not THE epiphany, but it was one. Namely, it was that I routinely ship characters I love with the ones who love them best.
And then The Real Truth dawned on me finally (magically!). As immortalized in the IM conversation here.
The gist being I suddenly realized that I have always felt, subconsciously, that Zuko deserves better than Aang's sloppy seconds. Zuko is essentially second-best in some way to everyone in his life. No one quite loves him the most; no one quite loves him the way that they should. As such the idea of him having to crib from Aang's relationship, not having something that's really his own even in that is just...sad. He should have something that's just for him, he should be the best, first choice, Most Important to someone. He wouldn't, by virtue of narrative, personality, and circumstance, be that to Katara.
And so I realized that I never shipped Zuko/Katara not primarily for love of Aang, as I always thought, but for love of Zuko.
My bad! I just had to bring it up. ;D
Going with that, his firebending in CoD resembled that of waterbending. Even though I kind of took that as fullfilling Iroh's speech in "Bitter Work", to how Zuko needs to understand the elements as a whole instead of trying to seperate them. I saw that scene as foreshadowing to Zuko becoming this great Fire Lord, unlike his father who only views in the interest of the Fire Nation instead of the Four Nations as a whole.
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Zutara7
Blue Spirit
Naruto OTP : )
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Post by Zutara7 on Mar 4, 2007 2:33:26 GMT -5
I disagree with that. How could Katara be Aang's "sloppy seconds", when the two aren't even romantically involved yet? True, Katara is emotionally devoted to Aang and always will be, but who's to say that Katara couldn't be romantically involved with someone and keep Aang's friendship at the same time? It's also true that Zuko is second best to almost everyone in his life, and Mai could probably love him more than anyone else could, but another reason why I think Zutara would be interesting is because we're all aware that Zuko's jealous of Aang for many things, bending, etc. But if Katara and Zuko were to be involved romantically then that would give Aang a reason to be jealous of Zuko.
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 2:33:46 GMT -5
That's a foreshadowing I missed. But that has also triggered something else in my brain xD *le sigh* So in Avatar, there is a bunch of foreshadowing, for everything not just Zutara (or so we think) and there's also a lot of symbolism. So perhaps, when Iroh was talking about Zuko needing to understand the other elements, that could mean he'll be Aang's firebending teacher. Think about it; Toph is an earthbender, Aang an airbender, and Katara water. There's the whole deck right there. This is straying off topic, but just listen :]]] From what I've seen, everything that Iroh has prophesied or wisdomized has come to light or truth in one way or another. Look at what he said about Zuko's metamorphasis. It certainly didn't happen the way any of us would have wanted or expected, but it happened. When he was teaching Zuko about lightning, it was an intense moment. And important one that won't be ignored later on when that will all arise agian. So, I just had to mention it since what you said made me think of it xDD Ok...and I did not finish my thought Anyways, if what Iroh said about all that is going to happen, and Zuko becomes Aang's firebending teacher, he'll be around Katara, and they'll both remember what happened. Point is: What Iroh says may lead to more possibilities for Zutara to develope.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 2:34:34 GMT -5
Well, by virtue of her argument then shouldn't Meng get Aang cause she loved him the most? I think it is absurd. You have no way of telling whether Mei or Katara could love Zuko the most at this point. The only thing that seems to give you an indication is that Mei is generally apathetic about things while Katara is compassionate. But I am not shipping for the love of Zuko. I am shipping out of my love for Katara and I think Zuko is her match.
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 2:40:40 GMT -5
I did not like this at all. Most people don't ship certain people because they love a character so much, then pair that said person up with someone else. She explains why she likes Kataang and not Zutara, and tells it's because of her love for Zuko. I'm confused somewhat, because if her love was embedded with Zuko the whole time, why not ship him with Katara, or Mai? Clearly she likes Katara if she can ship her with Aang.
And me, I generally ship my two favorite characters together.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 2:44:41 GMT -5
I wasn't sure what to think of Zuko at first. He really didn't become my second favorite character until much later. The idea of Zutara occurred to me as a one sided pairing at first. It was only after seeing the Storm and Zuko's protest in the warroom did I think he was perfect for Katara as a true love and really a genuine good guy.
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Zutara7
Blue Spirit
Naruto OTP : )
Posts: 2,141
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Post by Zutara7 on Mar 4, 2007 2:44:45 GMT -5
I did not like this at all. Most people don't ship certain people because they love a character so much, then pair that said person up with someone else. She explains why she likes Kataang and not Zutara, and tells it's because of her love for Zuko. I'm confused somewhat, because if her love was embedded with Zuko the whole time, why not ship him with Katara, or Mai? Clearly she likes Katara if she can ship her with Aang. And me, I generally ship my two favorite characters together. I noticed that too. Most people who ship Kataang like Aang, and don't want Zutara to happen because Aang would be sad about it. I normally ship my favorite characters together too. Even if they'll probably never get together. Example: InuyashaXSango. ;D
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 2:50:41 GMT -5
I did not like this at all. Most people don't ship certain people because they love a character so much, then pair that said person up with someone else. She explains why she likes Kataang and not Zutara, and tells it's because of her love for Zuko. I'm confused somewhat, because if her love was embedded with Zuko the whole time, why not ship him with Katara, or Mai? Clearly she likes Katara if she can ship her with Aang. And me, I generally ship my two favorite characters together. I noticed that too. Most people who ship Kataang like Aang, and don't want Zutara to happen because Aang would be sad about it. I normally ship my favorite characters together too. Even if they'll probably never get together. Example: InuyashaXSango. ;D Exactly. There is a reason I don't ship Kataang, and it's not the age, or even how they interact with each other. I've realized it was from how much I liked the character, and how I percieved that character. That's really how most people ship, if I'm not mistaken. It's the only method to follow my strange trail of ships. Ex: My favorite ship is Zutara, out of any fandom. So whatever you see in that, is different then say, Harry/Hermione, right? Which is one of my other favorite ships. That's hero/heroine, best friend/best friend, just like Kataang. But I also like Draco/Hermione, which could fall under the same category as Zutara. And with anime: Inuyasha/Kagome and Sesshomaru/Kagome, Rukia/Ichigo (this one fits in both categories xD). So as you can see, if you go by that pattern, it'd be logical for me to like Kataang, right? But I don't, for some unforseeable reason.
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Zutara7
Blue Spirit
Naruto OTP : )
Posts: 2,141
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Post by Zutara7 on Mar 4, 2007 3:04:03 GMT -5
Same with me. I like Inuyasha/Sango, but I also ship Kagome/Inuyasha. And in Teen Titans I shipped Robin/Starfire. In almost every show I watch I always pick the "ideal" ship and the one that's most likely to happen. In this case it would be Kataang, but it just never appealed to me.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 3:05:12 GMT -5
I ship mostly based on what I perceive true love is about. It should be a pairing of equals who help each other in times of need. One should not have a more dynamic personality over the other nor should one be more domineering. Similar pasts, interests, and/or beliefs should also be a facet of the pairing.
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Post by lunachaos on Mar 4, 2007 3:20:30 GMT -5
Yes, I agree xD
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