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Post by waterfire (I am back!!!) on Mar 3, 2007 16:32:16 GMT -5
I actually considered each season a separate book. So it's like a 3 book series. Romances often take one book to develop, but not 3, especially if the two people are already friends and spend every single day together. The longer romances generally are due to two characters either spending great amount of time away from each other or they basically hate each other to begin with. So, call me crazy, but if Aang and Katara are bursting with epic explosive pure beautiful love, how come its taking this long? To increase tension? Maybe. Yet, if this ship is as obvious as you folks claim, how is it even tense at all? It's not tense to me, it's just...blegh Sympathy face: screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/112/028.jpgSame face? screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/396.jpgIunno, but why would she feel sympathy for him? He was just going to talk with Iroh. His mom is gone, but so's hers, and they already covered that topic. You have a good point there.That means she has some feelings for him right? At least Before he betrays them.Anyway hi people!
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
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Post by Melis on Mar 3, 2007 16:47:32 GMT -5
That description of Katara and Aang's relationship comes down to interpretation. The people who like the coupling/support it believe that they have the potential to become this "epic, explosive, and pure beautiful love" because of the way the story has given it to us so far. At least, that's just what I think. I believe their relationship can be epic, since the creators did say that they wanted to create this epic story. Romance would fall into that, right? (I'm just asking. ) I like the way their relationship has been developing. If it just happened a couple of episodes back then what would we be left with? No speculation, no interpretations, no nothing. I guess it all comes down to a matter of taste, then. As for the tension, I guess there is because we don't know if Katara likes Aang. Kataang shippers would like to think that she does, whereas other shippers would like to think that she doesn't. We don't know the nature of her feelings, so there's your tension. "Does she like him?" "Omg did she kiss him on the cheek as a way of saying 'I like you too?'" etc. I don't think she felt sympathy at all. I think she was finally beginning to see Zuko as a person rather than the face of the enemy as she has for a long while now. She probably wanted to get to know more about him, to get to know Zuko the person rather than Zuko the enemy. Probably felt that the opportunity to get to know him was gone, or the opportunity to help him. (i.e trying to heal the scar that was obviously a source of his torment)
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2007 16:49:19 GMT -5
waterfire (I am back!!!)--No, not "feelings" feelings. That's a while away yet, and still a bit of a long shot. But it could be. The seed has been planted, and Katara is the type of person who wants to believe there is good in everybody, and that likely runs deeper than any negative feelings could fully erase. Sokka--See, your explaination makes sense, as speculation and interpretation is indeed fun. But then I understand even less the arguement of people who claim that particular ship is so incredibly obvious. It just seems odd to me that people will dive into the Zutara board just to defend kataang. Not even to challenge Zutara, or talk about the ship at all, but to defend their own ship whenever someone speaks ill of it. I've never seen that happen in any other threads. It's as if they just can't stand the fact that anyone thinks kataang might not happen.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 3, 2007 17:17:56 GMT -5
Yiceman, I must admit I have come here in the past to defend Kataang but I have also came in to talk about Zutara with the Zutarians. I like both pairings, so I don't see why I would favor one when it comes to debates than the other. ;D
As for the obvious arguement, it's just what they interpret when it comes to the show. The Zutarians interpret their ship via foreshadowing and other things, and now they have the canon moment between Z and K to use. The Kataangs interpret their ship from the episodes that their ship was given the most basis on, like The Fortuneteller, CoTL, etc. I can see why Kataangs say that it's the most obvious ship, because that's the way the show's been following their development. From the first episode we're given the fact that Aang has a crush on her, and in the most recent episodes he outright says that he loves Katara. What their relationship will be like later on we'll have to find out in season 3, but as of right now it can be said that it could take possibly take off to the next level.
Same with Zutara, just by that cave scene I can honestly believe that there might be a way for them to be with each other romantically. Besides that scene though, I can't really say that. Again, we're back to needing to wait until season 3 to really say more on the matter.
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Post by Amira on Mar 3, 2007 17:21:34 GMT -5
Look at the past two pages of the thread - repeated back and forths over what Katara's feelings are towards Aang. And that seems to be an important point as it is one that is often brought up in the shipping debate. I see people defending their own interpretations of various scenes in the show which seem to cut right along the shipping lines.
Of ocurse people who don't support Kataang are going to say Katara feels nothing for him in that way, but that is a matter of pure spectulation, just as it is a matter of speculation that she does feel something from him.
If the Zutarians don't want responses, then all they have to do is say stop and not reply anymore and swing the discussion in another direction. It's that simple.
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Growly
DOBS Katara
The Jester of Multishipping
The Mod behind the Myth
Posts: 6,059
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Post by Growly on Mar 3, 2007 17:58:58 GMT -5
It just seems odd to me that people will dive into the Zutara board just to defend kataang. Not even to challenge Zutara, or talk about the ship at all, but to defend their own ship whenever someone speaks ill of it. I've never seen that happen in any other threads. It's as if they just can't stand the fact that anyone thinks kataang might not happen. There have been people touting Zutara on the Kataang board before - although I have to say it's not as common. There's a pretty logical reason why though. There is almost no discussion of Zuko on the board or disparagement of Zuko's character (I'd hazard to say that for most Kataangs, Zuko doesn't exist in the romantic sense - at least not where pairing up Katara is concerned). That leaves very little for Zutarians to have to defend the character over. On the other hand, there is ample discussion of Aang on the Zutara board, mostly in a negative light. That tends to make Aang fans (and most especially Kataang fans) feel defensive. My suggestion is this - if you don't want Kataang fans on the Zutara board defending Aang/Kataang, then don't tear the poor kid down in posts so often. Also... if your entire post supporting Zutara consists of "Zutara is sexy" and then a bazillion reasons why Aang sucks and shouldn't be in a relationship, then it seems more like an anti-Aang/Kataang sentiment than a pro-Zutara one.
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Post by rocio on Mar 3, 2007 21:48:18 GMT -5
I am going to say why Kataang does not enter within the bases "they are going to end up together": according to a estructuralist called Monterder; the melodramático part of all series, film, or which have something of romance;
It is composed by atmospheres, situations and personages:
In atmospheres we were with ambient closed worlds: where the personage is separated of all the others, isolated, etc. This can be a jail, the school, its family.
The ambient open worlds are in as the personage is free; the space where the sin is committed; where the lovers are and happen things that the personage would have to be arranged to resign.
The situations are several; spacing/separation and encounter, is main, next to the one of difference of classes social, next to disease or minusvalía (lost of memory, some injury, or something thus), secret and revelation (that sometimes is bad-understood as in the case of the prediction of Aunt Wu by the heor, only to make the drama), adultery/ love prohibited, tortures/suffering (not to something necessarily physical), natural catastrophes (thing of which it rains or its sunny at certain moments), crimes (they assassinated Azulon, Ursa disappeared, assassinated the mother of Katara), false appearances (the bad one at the beggining looks goodboy and the good one it seems badboy XD), death (of that there is much, but one talks about the death that persecutes the personage , the one of a relative or friend).
As soon as personages. I will leave it for later; also to intonation and treatment.
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Post by waterfire (I am back!!!) on Mar 4, 2007 0:01:00 GMT -5
We need more proof.But I wish we get more in season three.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 4, 2007 0:09:14 GMT -5
We need more proof.But I wish we get more in season three. I'm sure we'll get more stuff once season 3 comes. How's the entries for the contest coming along?
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 0:16:08 GMT -5
Aang. sympathy is a synonym for compassion. The definition of compassion is the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it. By even wanting to help him, Katara showed she cared about Zuko. She had sympathy for him. Zutara is just as epic if not more so in terms of a romance because it has the Oma and Shu quality of being a pairing of two worlds opposed to each other. In fact, during the scene where Katara touches Zuko's scar the same music plays that was played during Katara's narration of the Omashu story. Listen to it. It's there. And Growly, Zuko is disparaged alot. Look at the past pages here and you will see Kataangs and antiZutaras bashing his character. They also do it on other threads. We get defensive about it just like they do over their beloved Aang. And it is true that we don't go to their room to debate their pairing. What's the sense when they just come here for it? And to Kataangs, Zuko does exist. The Kataang round robin fic was nothing more than bashing Zuko and debunking the very idea of Zutara so as to raise their pairing up. Our round robin fic as I recall was a SpiritKat fic in which the focus was the Zutara pairing. You can look these threads up if they still exist somewhere. I do not remember when they were made though. The point is that we don't just bash Aang all the time nor our the comments made about him necessarily invalid. He has flaws just as Zuko and Katara do.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 4, 2007 0:32:06 GMT -5
Ahh, okay! I guess I've mixed up sympathy with pity, my bad.
Hmm, I've never seen Zutara as epic before but now I can kind of see it. Veeery interesting~ I don't think the background music played during Katara's narration of the Omashu story was the same as the one playing in the cave when she was touching his scar. They sort of sound similar, but imo, aren't the same.
You know what I don't like though? That people believe that if Zuko and Katara got together all they would do is bicker and argue. I honestly believe that if Zutara became canon, Zuko would be a nice boyfriend. (after he lets go of all that turmoil of course, boy can't be in a relationship with all those things dragging him down) He'd probably go out of his way to make his girlfriend (in Zutara's case, Katara) happy. Katara probably wouldn't bicker with him if he was like that, I'm sure they'd joke and play around with the other like most couples do, but constantly try to kill each other? nawh.
Katara: Go take out the trash. Zuko: ...You can't make me. Katara & Zuko: *FIGHT TO DEATH* And then they go and makeout, the end. Until Katara tells him to put the toilet seat down after he uses it, and he refuses to listen -- ensuing another fight to the death!
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Mar 4, 2007 0:52:09 GMT -5
When you say bashing YS, in what sense were we trashing Zuko's character? mean I like him as a character. And you bring up a good point as to why you guys *except for a few* i know, don't go in the Kataang Room simply because the argument against Kataang manifests itself in here in some fashion *example: Rocio's question yesterday about when is a one sided pairing canon?* You guys should expect that anytime any argument against another ship is made in here that opposes yours, we will be responding ;D.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 0:52:17 GMT -5
Ahh, okay! I guess I've mixed up sympathy with pity, my bad. Hmm, I've never seen Zutara as epic before but now I can kind of see it. Veeery interesting~ I don't think the background music played during Katara's narration of the Omashu story was the same as the one playing in the cave when she was touching his scar. They sort of sound similar, but imo, aren't the same. You know what I don't like though? That people believe that if Zuko and Katara got together all they would do is bicker and argue. I honestly believe that if Zutara became canon, Zuko would be a nice boyfriend. (after he lets go of all that turmoil of course, boy can't be in a relationship with all those things dragging him down) He'd probably go out of his way to make his girlfriend (in Zutara's case, Katara) happy. Katara probably wouldn't bicker with him if he was like that, I'm sure they'd joke and play around with the other like most couples do, but constantly try to kill each other? nawh. Katara: Go take out the trash. Zuko: ...You can't make me. Katara & Zuko: *FIGHT TO DEATH* And then they go and makeout, the end. Until Katara tells him to put the toilet seat down after he uses it, and he refuses to listen -- ensuing another fight to the death!Yeah, I loathe that too. Shippers who believe that really misunderstand the pairing and the characters themselves. Katara only gets mad at people when they act selfishly and she doesn't ever use bending against them. Zuko is a complainer but what he complains about is usually things worthy of complaining about. He has also never directed his bending on the person who was pissing him off over something trivial. As for the contest, I hope I can get my entry done on time. Stupid backgrounds take forever. Here's a portion of it (the best part, the Zutara):
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Yang Fishy
Wolf Hakoda
Firebending General of the Zutarian Army
all that rises must fall, all that is born must die, all that is gathered will be scattered
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Post by Yang Fishy on Mar 4, 2007 0:55:19 GMT -5
We need more proof.But I wish we get more in season three. Hmm...maybe I could wish that for my Birthday! It is in a couple of hours, today (Yay! We finally have an advantage, lol j.k)There have been people touting Zutara on the Kataang board before - although I have to say it's not as common. There's a pretty logical reason why though. There is almost no discussion of Zuko on the board or disparagement of Zuko's character (I'd hazard to say that for most Kataangs, Zuko doesn't exist in the romantic sense - at least not where pairing up Katara is concerned). That leaves very little for Zutarians to have to defend the character over. There has been touting done by every ship in the past- Zutarians and Kataangs shouldn't be the sole ones held accountable or the only victims, either. Although your reason on why Zutarians not participating in the Kataang threads as often as the Kataangs do on the Zutarian thread may hold some truth, another reason could be that Zutarians simply don't want to get involved in the "Kataang themed" discussions. Everyone knows that an argument, war, or debate is inevitable, as just witnessed, since our opinions, interpretations, and taste differ; so in return, many simply avoid rather than get involved personally- yes Zutarians practice Neutral Jing! Besides, the war rooms are our safe haven and so both our ships should be free to say what we want to say without having to sugar coat statements or fear to break the peace which surely both our ships have tried so hard to maintain. There's no way Zutarians can have a discussion without mentioning Aang. Katara is part of the Aang gang. And of course discussing Aang would bring forth a negative light in a Zutarian thread! If Zutara is to ever happen than there is a chance that Aang will be left broken hearted. We are aware of this, obviously, but we don't know whether Aang will gradually move on or confess his feelings once and for all- without being interrupted, I may add -and have these feelings returned. We could only speculate. By the way, we don't tear Aang apart in our post as often as you think. Infact, it can be said that Avatar state Aang is discussed more on these threads rather than 12 year old Aang :/ Simply because there are a few Zutarians who do infact do it doesn't mean that we all do. That's generalizing and we of all ships should know that grand ships such as Kataang and Zutara shouldn't be bashed, disliked, or flamed for what one person does or says! It's rather unfair since both our ships can't be held accountable for so many people's actions.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 4, 2007 0:56:10 GMT -5
When you say bashing YS, in what sense were we trashing Zuko's character? mean I like him as a character. And you bring up a good point as to why you guys *except for a few* i know, don't go in the Kataang Room simply because the argument against Kataang manifests itself in here in some fashion *example: Rocio's question yesterday about when is a one sided pairing canon?* You guys should expect that anytime any argument against another ship is made in here that opposes yours, we will be responding ;D. Well, I can think of Gambitia's post suggesting that Zuko fell under the evil category. I am not saying that every Kataang or anti Zutarian does it just as you can't say every Zutara bashes Aang. I don't hate Aang. I support Tophaang as a ship for him and love writing Tophaang fluff. And the whole one sided pairing canon is about standards. Some people do not consider something canon unless it is two sided.
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