Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 3, 2007 2:13:45 GMT -5
And now Power, it's time to rebuttal Well since it seems that Aang hasn't moved on just yet, I cant give this opinion any merit. When I see it I will believe it, and quite frankly what is so ironic about that, especially since she brought her friend back from death. A lot of thoughts will be going through her head. First of all, I wasn't using Avatar as an example since we do not know the series ending as to say whether it was ironic or not. I was just using stories/novels/movies/mangas etc. in general since it is both a popular and reoccurring theme. And yes, I do believe it is ironic for the person who was once "oblivious" to fall in love with the person who was "crushing" on them at one point in time, but has now moved on, for not only is it entertaining to watch, but it is truly unexpected. It all began with boy crushing on girl. Girl was clueless about his feelings. Boy later gives up and moves on to find a new love or passion. Girl then starts to notice guy and have feelings for him. Girl falls for the boy. Boy has moved on. You end up in square one! I'm not using this for Avatar so I beg that you don't say that I did. It was just an example... But on a further note: Do Katara's actions of bringing Aang back from the dead mean that she did it solely because she had romantic feelings for him? I think not. I'm not trying to be rude, but whatever happened to bringing him back simply because she made a sole promise to protect him since episode 1.3. Or better yet, don't you think a best friend would be concerned for the over all well being of their friend? Perhaps, stronger feelings were at play in this, however, her and Aang's being friends, and very close one's at that, surely must have had her wanting to heal the injured Aang. Although a few questions may arise from this it can easily be said that Katara did this out of love; both platonic or romantic. Perhaps even her Waterbending nature, where she places family and community first influenced her and granted her this power to actually save someone from dying. Whoa, Power. No one's wrong in the forums. We all have different interpretations or explanations for such events. Only time will tell whose right or not and even then it may be left open-ended. I agree that Aang should be more concerned with learning Firebending rather than mastering the Avatar State for the moment. However, even if Aang masters all the elements, would this be enough to defeat an entire Firenation army, Firebending royal guards, The Dai Lei, Fire Lord Ozai and to top it off a comet! As Aang has said before "There's just too many..." and I'm sure there are going to be way more than the number he encountered down in the Catacombs. The Avatar state is a defense mechanism, not a weapon. It can help him greatly with his struggle in the war. Why shouldn't he use it once he's had full control? The show is called Avatar,[/b] therefore, it would be a waste if Aang shuns the Avatar State 'till the end of the series. But that's just it: Kataang won't be wasted if it doesn't come to be. No ship will, really. Simply because a ship isn't declared the victor or isn't given the fuel it needs doesn't mean that it was a complete waste of time for everyone. On the contrary, it can provide much character development. It can open a door to new possibilities. Ever heard the expression; when one door closes another one opens. Everything plays its purpose and although it may be unclear to us now, in the end, we'll all be smacking our foreheads saying: "we should have guessed that^^!" [/quote] I also want to add about the whole bringing him back to life thing. She could have brought him back to life because she believes only he can save the world. She calls Zuko a horrible person because he "hunting the Avatar, trying to capture the world's last hope for peace"
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 3, 2007 2:21:19 GMT -5
That quote was in the pre-production of Avatar to be submitted to Nick, I cant find no basis in this one here since it wasnt filtered in the final production. Exactly, cause she didn't see him as a potential love interest. The idea of the cave was romantic love. To kiss would have tricked the cave into thinking they were lovers so they could get out. She got irked because Aang's words insulted her. He implied that kissing her was something horribly awful that only death could be worse. That's basically like calling her ugly and that hurts. She only decided to kiss him as the light was going out which would have meant they'd be lost in there forever. The blush could have meant a number of things. Katara blushed in Imprisoned because Haru was complimenting her on how she saved the day. This could have been a blush of embarassment.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 3, 2007 2:28:01 GMT -5
If the idea of the cave was romantic love, then why force the kiss? It wouldn't work if there are no feelings in it between the two. I know, I know. We don't really know if they kissed or not, it's all up to interpretation. Not only that, but once the flame went out the sparkles glowed in the dark. I like to see that scene as the moment where Aang and Katara gave into their feelings for one another, letting that love lead their way, which lead to them attempting to kiss. But that's just me digging underneath.
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Youkai-Slayer
Wolf Sokka
Patron Goddess and Ambassador of Zutara
I would rather support what SHOULD have happened than what DID happen. ~Yiceman
Posts: 2,846
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Post by Youkai-Slayer on Mar 3, 2007 2:32:04 GMT -5
If the idea of the cave was romantic love, then why force the kiss? It wouldn't work if there are no feelings in it between the two. I know, I know. We don't really know if they kissed or not, it's all up to interpretation. Not only that, but once the flame went out the sparkles glowed in the dark. I like to see that scene as the moment where Aang and Katara gave into their feelings for one another, letting that love lead their way, which lead to them attempting to kiss. But that's just me digging underneath. Because it was the only idea Katara had to get out of the cave. She didn't know that it wouldn't work. You really don't know until you try something out.
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Yang Fishy
Wolf Hakoda
Firebending General of the Zutarian Army
all that rises must fall, all that is born must die, all that is gathered will be scattered
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Yang Fishy on Mar 3, 2007 2:39:41 GMT -5
We're all friends here, right ;D? Okay lets carry on. In that same episode, Sokka remarks about Aang being a "powerful bender" and Katara gives him this look like "What?". I think it's interesting that the Avatar Staff created that scene in the beginning when she tells Sokka that Aang is "a sweet little guy, just like Momo" and then by the end of the episode she's looking at her best friend, imo, in a different light. Kind of like "I never noticed this before, but my best friend is a guy!". Perhaps for a potential love interest, but that's just me. Although I'm not arguing this, I must express a concern. When Aunt Wu predicts that Katara is going to marry a powerful bender, it's obvious that Aang is nowhere on Katara's mind at the moment. Surely, she must have been thinking about some imaginary- tall and handsome bender lol! In the end, I was wondering why did it take Sokka to mention that Aang was a powerful bender, which resulted in Katara coming to this realization! If Katara would have truly thought he was the one if not just a powerful bender, wouldn't she have realized this on her own? That quote was in the pre-production of Avatar to be submitted to Nick, I cant find no basis in this one here since it wasnt filtered in the final production. It may have been in the un-aired pilot but it was used once more in episode 1.2: The Avatar Returns: Sokka: Come on! Were going to save your boyfriend- Katara: He's Not My Boyfriend! Sokka: Whatever... So yeah, it does have some back bone to it, in a way. Well if we consider Katara's prediction of her marrying a powerful bender in the future as true or somewhat foreshadowing events to come, shouldn't we also take in account that Aunt Wu saw no girl or love in Aang's future? Lets not forget that Aunt Wu used the most reliable method of fortunetelling: the bones which she vowed never lied. She did accurately predict that Aang would have to face a battle between good and evil without knowing he was indeed the Avatar. And although it can be said that word about the Avatar has spread fast, it took a princess such as Azula forever to realize that Aang was the avatar in their meeting. He had to Airbend! So either Aunt Wu was a complete hoax or she may have had some truth behind those words she spoke to the Aang gang. I dunno about that... They were at the end of their rope. It was as if this was their last resort in order for them not to die together in that cave. Katara obviously noticed that the two people in the statue were kissing, so common sense could have told her that maybe that was their key of getting out of the cave; not get hooked on each other and fall madly in love. Although it may have been awkward and somewhat temptatious, it took them to be stuck in a cave, and not just any boring cave, a cave of two lovers for them to have a 2-sec. romantic scene together... I'm okay with being proved wrong, but if she truly felt romantic feelings toward Aang, I'm sure she would have suggested a kiss whether she was inside the cave of love or not. So I'm waiting till we're in broad daylight to analyze and see for myself^^
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2007 3:11:41 GMT -5
In my opinion, the main indication that Katara has no romantic feelings for Aang is that they have spent every single day together for the past 4 months or so and she has not expressed any feelings vocally.
A romance, whether in real life or in a story, does not take that much time to develop. It's kind of rediculous...4 months--16 weeks--roughly 122 days spent together day and night. If she doesn't have feelings yet, I don't see how she can suddenly explode into a fit of passion over him. I seriously doubt she's just hiding them from him. Why would she? So he doesn't get distracted? What kind of dumb reason is that? Katara seems like the type who would definently tell him if she felt anything.
Romantic feelings can happen between people the INSTANT they meet if they are attracted to one another. Look at Sokka and Yue. If Aang and Katara have this incredibly pure and epic bond that stands above all the feelings that any mere mortal can not expect to feel (i've been reading the Kataang thread, you folks have some amazing imaginations. Half the reason I start debates there is because I can't stand that much fluff and over-romanticized situations of impossibly embellished romance that would only occur in a horrible fanfic), then why does it take 4 frickin' months to develop a romance.
The only explaination is this: Katara just does not find Aang attractive in a romantic light. She likes him as a friend, not as a lover. Is that not a plausible scenario? Are there not people who can have a great bond yet choose not to make it romantic? There are soldiers out there with bonds as strong as Aang and Katara's, which develop simply because they are placed in dangerous situations and have to rely heavily on each other.
As for tCotL, so what? We don't know if they kissed. What's your proof, the blush at the end? What's a blush mean? I still think that the look Katara gave Zuko as she left the cave was ten times more meaningful than any blush.
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Post by spook on Mar 3, 2007 5:28:30 GMT -5
A romance, whether in real life or in a story, does not take that much time to develop. Uhm, it kinda does. Really yice, you're acting as if Avatar is the great exception in this matter. Just pick up any book at your local library with a lovestory in it, and it's a good possibility that lovestory won't be resolved untill the end of the book. It's one of the most basic formulas out there, so I don't really see why you're making such a big fuss over this. Lol, you think a look of sympathy was ten times more meaningfull than an entire episode focussed on the developping romantic feelings of both Aang and Katara? That sounds rather illogical. Besides, if you want to find any basis which might possibly indicate romantic feelings in that scene (even though there were none whatsoever), I could also point out that Katara immediatly forgot about what she was doing when Aang rushed in. That's really not the best way for storywriters to indicate there's something romantically growing between Zuko and Katara. This picture basically says it all: ;D
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Power
Fire Lord Zuko
Kataangian Elite. Air/Water Warrior
Toph and Sokka. Every day they get closer to each other.
Posts: 8,513
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Post by Power on Mar 3, 2007 9:19:54 GMT -5
Gawd I want to laugh so badly, if they were to just revealing all feelings, then the relationship would have no more character development and nothing else to go on. The creators are smart in keeping the tension going between Aang and Katara, with the easing of the tension somewhere in season 3. If you are worried about why its taking so long, just continue to watch the show, sorry if the fluff is bothering you, but no matter what you say or do, its there to stay and we enjoy it And that is your opinion. Wow a look of sympathy is a lot more grandiose and fabulous expression than the facial expression of someone who may be starting to consider her best friend just more than a friend? I must have missed something.
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Pixar
Kyoshi Mai
Posts: 2,360
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Post by Pixar on Mar 3, 2007 11:27:44 GMT -5
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Mar 3, 2007 11:32:58 GMT -5
Nice, Pix. Wow, Katara gave her former enemy who's almost killed her and her family and best friend, along with the fact that his nation killed her mother and Aang's race a sympathetic look of concern a care? I missed something too.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Mar 3, 2007 12:46:54 GMT -5
Of course! ;D Now with that...
Hmm, good point! I guess all I can say is that sometimes it takes another person or view point to realize what's been in front of you the entire time.
I think it's tricky to really discuss Aunt Wu. It's been said that the whole point of the episode was that you should never rely on fortunetelling or anything of the sort, because only you have the power to shape your own destiny. Aunt Wu told him in the end of the episode that just because she didn't see love in his future, doesn't mean that it's definite. "Just like you bended the clouds, you have the power to shape your own destiny." Perhaps there'll be a way for Aang to have romance in the future, but for now I can't really touch this subject until season 3 rolls around.
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tara22
Warrior Sokka
mmmwaa....ouch, my lips
Posts: 764
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Post by tara22 on Mar 3, 2007 13:39:19 GMT -5
There are so many interactions and looks between the characters that can be interpreted any number of ways. It really just boils down to personal opinion. When you think about it (don't shoot me for this-) there really isn't a 'Kataang' or a 'Zutara', they're just relationships created by viewers. There hasn't been concrete mutual romantic feelings between the characters in either ship. Imo, the reasoning behind 'why would the creators waste two seasons of Kataang build-up' really doesn't hold water (hold your fire..) when there isn't a romantic relationship between the two to waste. What has been evident (and there is plenty of evidence of it) is that Aang holds romantic feelings for Katara. Katara, on the other hand, obviously cares very deeply for Aang but has not shown romantic feelings for him. The only guy Katara has been shown to feel romantic towards (and her feelings have been confirmed in Lake Laogai) was Jet. In the episode 'Jet', she is quite obviously interested in him and I have honestly not seen her act that way towards any other character. When Jet pulled her in close and brought her up to his tree fortress, it was quite obvious that she was blushing because she was quite close to someone she was attracted to. In the COTL, it really isn't perfectly clear to viewers why she was blushing (and the many different points of view on the matter prove this). Attraction really is a starting point for romance. Why would you want to begin a romance with someone you aren't physically attracted to?
[Today at 3:11am, yiceman wrote:A romance, whether in real life or in a story, does not take that much time to develop. Spook wrote: Uhm, it kinda does]
Unless you take a poll of the way every romance on earth developed, there's no way to you can say 'yes it does'.
Point being, there really aren't any ships right now, we need more episodes and some concrete evidence for mutual romantic feelings between Katara/Aang - Katara/Zuko - Katara/anyone, or even mutual attraction before we can even call a relationship a romance. Unlike Sokka/Yue, Sokka/Suki, both having proven a mutual romatic love. I'm not trying to take the fun out of shipping (because I do it too), but there are so many arguments floating around that don't have concrete proof to back them up and people actually getting upset over others' comments
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Post by spook on Mar 3, 2007 14:12:35 GMT -5
The only guy Katara has been shown to feel romantic towards (and her feelings have been confirmed in Lake Laogai) was Jet. In the episode 'Jet', she is quite obviously interested in him and I have honestly not seen her act that way towards any other character. When Jet pulled her in close and brought her up to his tree fortress, it was quite obvious that she was blushing because she was quite close to someone she was attracted to. In the COTL, it really isn't perfectly clear to viewers why she was blushing (and the many different points of view on the matter prove this). Attraction really is a starting point for romance. Why would you want to begin a romance with someone you aren't physically attracted to? Well, personally I think it's deeply obvious why Katara was blushing, about just as obvious as the reason why she blushed in "Jet", but as you say, it all boils down to personal interpretation. It's already been discussed to death and I see no reason to discuss it again. All I was saying is that the idea of a romance between two characters (and importantly, the MAIN characters) reaching its climax at the end of the story is a common formula, used by many authors. It's not as ridiculous and exceptional as some here make it out to be. I was talking about fiction, not real life.
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yiceman
Bosco
Not all who wander are lost.
Posts: 2,929
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2007 14:45:58 GMT -5
I actually considered each season a separate book. So it's like a 3 book series. Romances often take one book to develop, but not 3, especially if the two people are already friends and spend every single day together. The longer romances generally are due to two characters either spending great amount of time away from each other or they basically hate each other to begin with. So, call me crazy, but if Aang and Katara are bursting with epic explosive pure beautiful love, how come its taking this long? To increase tension? Maybe. Yet, if this ship is as obvious as you folks claim, how is it even tense at all? It's not tense to me, it's just...blegh Sympathy face: screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/112/028.jpgSame face? screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/220/396.jpgIunno, but why would she feel sympathy for him? He was just going to talk with Iroh. His mom is gone, but so's hers, and they already covered that topic.
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Quad
Teo
I am Quad, the blue-haired water-and-firebending Zutarian Queen
Posts: 435
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Post by Quad on Mar 3, 2007 16:08:41 GMT -5
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