WEEKLY DISCUSSION

[gambitia]

Enemy Relationships

This week, we're going to talk about relationships between current, former, or soon-to-be former enemies. We're going to put these relationships under the spotlight, and discuss their plausibility.

Enemy relationshis include Zutara, Sokkla, Maiko, Soko, Zukka, Ty Lokka, Jinko, Jetara, and Ty LeexAang.

Your mission is to discuss the plausibility of these relationships, both in the context of the show and in the context of similar relationships in other shows and in real life.

Questions to consider:

--Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

--How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society? What would happen to Azula and Zuko's chances at becoming Fire Lord/Lady if they were to marry a Water Tribe person? How would Gran Gran and Hakoda react if Sokka brought home a cute Fire Nation chick?

--Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? (This especially applies to Maiko and Ty Lokka). Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

--How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

--How badly have the characters hurt each other? Does Zuko's theft from Song end any possible relationship? Would Azula's possible murder of Suki end any possibility for a relationship with Sokka?

--Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve? If Azula's role is "ultimate evil," can she be in a relationship? Is Mai just the childhood crush? Is Katara the mother?

--Have relationships like these happened in other shows? It's been said that there's no such thing as an original story--has the story of your ship already been told in another series? Or, is your ship totally unique, and if so what does that mean for its chances of actually happening?

[historyman12]

yay, I'm the first one to reply.
Okay, I shipZutara and Tykka as my 'enemy ships'
For Tykka:


Grudge/Hatred: Sokka holds grudges, but he has gotten betterwith them since season 1, he doesn't seem to hold a grudge against Ty Lee, and she paralyzed him. Ty Lee doesn't in any way shape or form seem like one to hold a grudge.

Backlash: Well, Sokka's world standing isabout to skyrocket, he seems like he'll help lead the assaulton the Fire Nation, and Ty Lee's nobility so maybe the families ill be fine, I can, however, see the look on Hakoda's face when he sees Sokka with Ty Lee.

Phys. attraction: Well, now it's just phys. attract. but, they've nay talked at all so, it's knd of hard for it not to be. It might last, if Sokka didn't have a Central Nervous Breakdown after talking to her for 5 minutes.

Change: Sokka isgetting there with change and forgiveness, Ty Lee is already there.

Hurt: They've only fought twice and Sokka doesn'tseem to hate Ty Lee like Katara does, (ex. The Drill) Ty Lee likes Sokka in the first place, so we're good there.

Critical Standpoint: Sokka is brain, ladies man, general comic relief. Brain quality might mess it up a touch, ladies man, he's good with girls, kind of, how is that an issue? Comic relief: can make people laugh, girls too, so that could help him Ty Lee: general airhead, can show brin,sometimes. If Sokka didn't have a Central Nervous Breakdown he might get along with her


I can't answer fo the last one for Tykka, I don't know



Zutara:

Katara doesn't ussually hold grudges, Zuko does sometimes, he probably would in this situation though.

Backlash: A prince, and a companion of a worldwide star to be, seems to be a good match, after Aang wins, though, for now, Katara isn't all that known.

If they met, I hope it would blossom into a friendship, and then to romance, because, once they get over the grudges, they can relate to each other.

Katara forgives ussually easily, she has undergone mountains of change, Zuko has had the crisis, he probably will be more accepting to change after his big change, he probably would forgive after the crisis is done


These two have fought left, right, and center. This would hinder a reltionship until forgiveness and change take over

katara is caring, responsible and the leader, she would probably would be able to handle a real relationship fine. Zuko, is more...dang, no words come to mind. He's calm, not one to show emotions, and clueless with women, all of these are minuses.

This consumate nice person +bad guy turned good guy has been done to death. And as such helps and hinders its chances, helps, because the creators have guidelines as to how to do it and how not to do it, bad because it's almost cliche.

Those are my ideas, thank you

[Werewolf Cookie]

My enemy ships are Maiko and Zaang.

I don't think Mai and Zuko feel hatred towards each other. They haven't met in the present yet, and so far aside from being associated with Azula Mai hasn't done anything to hurt Zuko. Zuko sometimes holds grudges, but I wouldn't think he has a grudge against Mai, because she's never really done anything to him.

It would be difficult for Mai and Zuko to have a relationship with Azula in the way. Obviously Azula wants Zuko dead, and at the moment Mai's loyalties seem to lie with Azula. But to be honest, after The Drill I don't think Mai really cares that much about what Azula wants. I could definitely see her defying Azula for Zuko. And the nice thing about Maiko is that Mai would make such a lovely Fire Lady if Zuko were ever to become Fire Lord.

It may just be physical attraction between Mai and Zuko, but it's hard to say since they haven't met in the present yet. If Mai still likes Zuko with his scar, I'll think it's probably a bit more than physical attraction. But they need a bit more interaction before we can say for sure. Heh, I don't think Maiko is the type of relationship that would burn out. She's liked him for years. That's one of the things I love about it; it's so dedicated.

Zuko doesn't exactly seem quick to forgive, but I don't know about Mai. Either way, I don't really think there's all that much to forgive between them. They haven't really hurt each other at all, they're just enemies by association.

At the moment it's a bit hard to say what role Mai plays, because she hasn't had a lot of character development and hasn't been that important. Zuko is obviously the anti-hero, or the misguided angsty soon-to-be hero.

I can't really think of any other ships that remind me very much of Maiko. There are plenty of other shows where the childhood crush becomes the canon love interest, I just can't think of any. And the few I can think of don't really remind me of Maiko at all. To be honest, I used to think Maiko was the most likely Zuko ship because Mai was the only non-one shot character that had shown any real romantic interest in Zuko. Then I saw the trailer for the season finale and my soul wept. Suddenly Mai isn't the only major character to show an interest in our Zuko.

My other favourite enemy ship is Zaang. Zaang will never ever happen, but I don't care, I love it anyway.

Aang would easily be able to put aside any hatred he feels towards Zuko, and I think Zuko is getting to the point where he'd be able to do the same for Aang. Zuko kinda holds grudges, but I think he's getting better with that.

Oh, the backlash from family/friends/society would be terrible. For one thing, I'm not sure how society would react to a bit of boy love between the Avatar and the heir to the Fire Nation. It may affect Zuko's chances of becoming Fire Lord, but since he seems like the best candidate for the position he'll probably become Fire Lord anyway. I'm sure the Gaang would be pretty freaked out if Zaang ever happened. I'm not really sure how Zuko and Aang would react to that kind of reaction from their friends and family.

Heh, the relationship definitely isn't physical attraction. They haven't shown any attraction to one another. They have however shown concern for the other's safety and a lot of similarities in personality and experience. I'd say it would be something more than physical attraction.

Zuko and Aang have hurt each other, but they've also helped each other, and they understand each other. And I'm sure Aang would be quick to forgive; he did offer to be friends after all.

Aang is the young hero, and Zuko is the anti-hero or the hero's rival. This sort of relationship happens occasionally in other shows e.g. Syaoran and Sakura, but because the hero and the rival are usually both guys it's not all that common. In the fandom it's usually pretty popular though, e.g. Naruto/Sasuke, Goku/Vegeta etc. Zaang isn't very popular in the Avatar fandom, but I still like it even though it will never ever happen and most people think it's gross.

[catalyst283]

Well, the relationship I’ll argue for in this discussion is Zutara. (No matter how obvious it was that I was going to do that XD).


To me, I think that if the season finale trailer is any indication, Zuko and Katara CAN set aside their former hatred. Yes, it took two seasons to do; but with their past, I wouldn’t expect the creators to go “Poof!” and suddenly Zuko and Katara on the best terms out of nowhere. XD As for the grudges thing, Zuko has been known to hold grudges and so has Katara, though not as much as Zuko. Though they have been known to do this, again, I think the trailer proves that they can set aside their former hatred and grudges to start a friendship. (Though I’d be kidding you if I said I didn’t want more XD)

There would be quite a big backlash, but I think they can get over it. Even though this wasn’t toward Zuko and was in the beginning of season 1; we can all see the Katara is ready to sacrifice everything, even her family and home, for someone she cares for. (Like when she was ready to leave her family to join Aang on his journey) Though she didn’t go with him until later, it shows that she is willing to sacrifice much for what she believes in, a fact further made clear with other actions of hers throughout the season, such as when she stands up for the imprisoned earth benders even though she didn’t know them very well, or the multiple times in the beginning she was willing to stand up for Aang even though she hardly knew him. With someone she knows and loves, it would be even more true.

If Zutara happened, I can see Katara standing up for their relationship, even though practically all her family and Zuko’s family would be against them being together. And though I can definitely see Sokka and a bunch of other people close to Katara, I can see them getting over eventually because they love Katara and want the best for her. As for Zuko’s family; I can see pretty much the same thing. They won’t accept Katara at first, but if they really care for Zuko (like Iroh and Ursa), they will accept her eventually because she makes him happy.

As for the chances of Zuko becoming Fire Lord if he married Katara, I think that even if he got married first and then took the throne, I still think he would have similar chances. Plus, though the Fire Nation would think it not appropriate to have a banished prince on the throne, much less a water tribe Fire Lady, I can see that they could accept both of them, because since it would be after the war, this would bring the nations closer together, showing that the nations can interact peacefully and that love truly holds no boundaries.

As for how open to change the characters are; as Iroh says, “Water is the element of change” and it is true that Katara is very open to change. She will “go with the flow” and she is open to new things, though she can get stubborn sometimes. She holds a grudge temporarily and forgives easily, a trait that she would need to have with Zuko. And as for Zuko, he is stubborn and is not very open to change, though recently he has become more open to it, more adaptable. He doesn’t forgive easily, as we can see that he hasn’t even forgiven himself for things.

As for how the characters have hurt each other; the fire nation killed Katara’s mother, and Zuko lost (or has believed to have lost) his mother to the fire nation as well (though we’re not sure if she’s dead or not). Zuko has tied Katara to a tree, demanding she hand over Aang; and many other countless times he has chased the Gang. Katara has fought Zuko, injuring him a couple of times and left him out in the snow to die at the North Pole (though that could be argued as self-defense on Katara’s part). Their pasts have been filled with injury from the other, but I believe they can get over it. They can learn to forgive and learn to live with each other’s mistakes.


And though Katara has been seen as the mother, and I can see her mothering Zuko a bit; I can see the relationship being equal with each side giving and taking. Katara isn’t always acting as the mother, and she needs someone to comfort her as well. They are more similar than they think and can bond through their losses and similarities, as well as accept each other’s differences.

And yes, I suppose the “good girl with the bad boy” story has been done countless times and is very cliché, but though this story has similarities to other stories in other shows, it is unique from them and if it happens, it will happen differently than those stories.


Though I’ve got to say, this relationship WILL take time and work to make it happen. And no relationship is perfect; all take work to happen.

To end my post off; I'll post one of my favorite quotes that goes with this topic:

"Loving unconditional means forgiving and learning to live with his
imperfections because in the end you'll realize that's what you love the most."

[femaleairbender]

I'll be focusing on Soko, Sokkla, and Tykka.



SOKO

Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

Zuko and Song didn't exactly hate each other but there's sure to be conflict, since Zuko took her ostrich horse. I can't see Song holding a grudge; upset, yes. A grudge, no. As for Zuko, he's been known to hold grudges but I can't see why he'd hold a grudge aganist Song.


How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society?

If Zuko and Song get together during the war, they'd probably be treated as outcasts, as far as society goes. Azula would definitely use the fact that Zuko and Song are together to her advantage. I'm not sure if Ozai would really care or not, seeing as how he thinks Zuko's lower than dirt.


Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

I don't think the bond between Zuko and Song was based off of physical attraction, at least on Song's part. I think she wanted to empathize with Zuko and try to comfort him. I think, if given time, a relationship between Zuko and Song could last.


How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

I think Song could live with change. Zuko isn't all that open when it comes to change; having a spiritual crisis and all. I think Song can easily forgive but it would take a while for Zuko to forgive someone.


How badly have the characters hurt each other? Does Zuko's theft from Song end any possible relationship?

Zuko has hurt Song, yes. But I don't think it ends any possible relationship. Zuko would have to apologize to Song and (possibly) give her the ostrich horse back. If that ever happens, we'll see from there.


Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?

Zuko is the "gray character". His role is that of an antihero; he's not completely good and not completely bad. Song is the understanding, healing character; the type of character who would be there when you're in need.


Have relationships like these happened in other shows? It's been said that there's no such thing as an original story--has the story of your ship already been told in another series?

The Soko ship kind of reminds me of Inuyasha/Kagome from Inuyasha. Inuyasha is good-looking with angst to boot like Zuko and Song is kindhearted and loving like Kagome. There have been many times where Kagome has been there for Inuyasha, whether he wanted it or not. I wouldn't say that Song was there for Zuko during his most desperate moment (like Kagome has been for Inuyasha) but she was there to try to comfort him.



SOKKLA

Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

Azula holds grudges, no doubt about that. Sokka has been known to hold grudges but he's mellowed out quite a bit. An example would be his facial expression as Toph's says that Jet's lying when he says he'll be okay. I don't think Sokka and Azula would be able to set aside their hatred because one, Azula isn't the most humble character on the show and two, I'm not sure Sokka would do well in royalty.


How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society? What would happen to Azula's chances at becoming Fire Lady if she was to marry a Water Tribe person? How would Gran Gran and Hakoda react if Sokka brought home a cute Fire Nation chick?

Azula's chances of becoming Fire Lady would most likely shrink if she married Sokka. The Fire Nation Royal Family (especially Ozai) seem to be bigots and believe in Fire Nation purity. Azula might even be disowned. I'm not sure how Gran Gran and Hakoda would react if Sokka brought home Azula. I can't see him getting disowned...Something to think about...


Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

I have a feeling Sokka and Azula would probably end up killing each other, so...


How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

Azula doesn't forgive, period. I'm not so sure about Sokka; it'd probably take a long time for him to forgive.


How badly have the characters hurt each other? Would Azula's possible murder of Suki end any possibility for a relationship with Sokka?

If Azula HAS killed Suki, I could see Sokka wanting to avenge Suki's death. So yeah, that'd pretty much kill any chance of a relationship between Sokka and Azula.


Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve? If Azula's role is "ultimate evil," can she be in a relationship?

The only time I can see Azula in a relationship with Sokka is if she wanted to use him to capture Aang.


Is your ship totally unique, and if so what does that mean for its chances of actually happening?

The chances of Sokkla becoming canon is slim to none. I can see this ship only existing in fanfiction, to be honest.



TYKKA

Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

Sokka and Ty Lee don't necessarily hate each other but Sokka has the whole "You = Fire Nation" thing going on. Sokka's getting better when it comes to letting go of grudges and Ty Lee doesn't seem to be the type to hold grudges.


How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society? How would Gran Gran and Hakoda react if Sokka brought home a cute Fire Nation chick?

*shrugs* That I can't really answer.


Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? (This especially applies to Ty Lokka). Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

The Tykka ship is definitely just physical attraction, especially on Ty Lee's part. I can see Tykka, if it ever becomes canon, quickly burning out.


How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

Ty Lee's pretty laid back and seems to be forgiving. Sokka's learning how to forgive.


How badly have the characters hurt each other?

Not much. The worst Ty Lee has done to Sokka was when she blocked his chi.


Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?

Sokka is a ladies man, sarcastic, funny, and loves food. Ty Lee's a bit of an airhead and bubbly but when things are serious, she'll sometimes manage to be all business.


Have relationships like these happened in other shows? It's been said that there's no such thing as an original story--has the story of your ship already been told in another series?

I guess you could say Tykka is like Jake/Rose from American Dragon: Jake Long and Danny/Valarie from Danny Phantom. These ships have the "If I wasn't trying to kill you, I'd go out with you" feel to them.

[Ana]

The ships I’ll be focusing on will be Maiko, Tykka, and Zukkang.

Maiko
Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?
I don’t Mai and Zuko hate each other. They haven’t met in the present yet but besides working for Azula Mai hasn’t done anything to hurt Zuko. Zuko does hold grudges but I don’t think he has one on Mai since she hasn’t really done anything to him.

How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society?
It would be hard for them to have a relationship with Azula in the way. Azula wants Zuko dead and Mai is currently working for Azuka. But honestly, after “The Drill”, I really think doesn’t Mai care that much what Azula say I could easily see her betraying Azula for Zuko. Besides Azula, I don’t think anyone else would have a problem with their relationship. Mai is a high ranking noble after all.

Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?
It could be just physical attraction but since they haven’t met in present yet (it’s coming!) it’s hard to say. I think if Mai likes Zuko even with his scar it’ll probably a bit more than physical attraction. Again we need more interaction with them to say for sure. I don’t see Maiko burning out soon since Mai has liked Zuko so long.

How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?
Zuko doesn’t seem quick to forgive but I can’t say about Mai. I don’t really think there is much to forgive though; they're just enemies by association

How badly have the characters hurt each other?
Again, besides working for Azula Mai hasn’t done anything to hurt Zuko.

Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?
It’s hard to say for Mai right now but she seems like the ninja goth who has a crush on friend’s brother. To quote femaleairbender (because I really like the description) "Zuko is the "gray character". His role is that of an antihero; he's not completely good and not completely bad."

Tykka
Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?
Ty Lee and Sokka haven’t really shown any hatred towards each other. Sokka does have the “evil fire nation” which..would be considered a grudge (however he is getting better at letting those go). I see Ty Lee just “going with the flow”.

How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society?
Again, I see Ty Lee just “going with the flow”. If Sokka really loved Ty Lee I could see him getting defensive if anyone had a problem with their relationship.

Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?
Oh, it’s defiantly just (or mostly) physical attraction. After all, most of the hints are “he’s cute” lines and flirting. I could see Tykka burning out fairly easily.

How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?
I see Ty Lee being really open with change and easy to forgive. Sokka isn’t so much but again he’s getting better at it.

How badly have the characters hurt each other?
There has been some fights but that’s about it. So, they wouldn’t really have much to forgive besides the Ty Lee = Fire Nation thing.

Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?
It’s hard to say for Ty Lee right now but she seems like the bubbly airhead and an awesome contortionist. To quote from the show Sokka is “the meat and sarcasm guy”. He’s the also big brother with a protective complex.

Zukkang
Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?
Aang would easily be able to aside any hatred he has for Zuko and I think Zuko is getting to point where he can do the same. Zuko can hold grudges but…he’s getting better at that.

How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society?
Hm, well. If Zuko and Aang got together, I don’t think many people would be…pleased. I don’t think society would react positively “to a bit of boy love between the Avatar and the heir to the Fire Nation.” (To quote Werewolf Cookie) I do think it will affect Zuko’s chance of being Fire Lord, everyone would probably say he only got the job because he was favored by the Avatar or whatever else. I think he would get the job since there really isn’t anyone else for the job but there would still be a political uproar. I’m pretty sure the Gaang wouldn’t be pleased if Zukkang came to be either. As for who they would react to it, I think they would defend it. Zuko from the Fire Nation and Aang from the Gaang.

Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?
There isn’t any real attraction between Zuko and Aang, obsession maybe but no attraction.
But seriously, Zuko and Aang haven’t shown any attraction but they have shown concern for the other’s safety and similarities of personality and past. So, I think it would be more than physical attraction.

How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?
Aang is pretty open and easy to forgive, we saw this when he saved Zuko’s life and offered him friendship, while Zuko is not. As said previously, Zuko is getting better and more open to change.

How badly have the characters hurt each other?
Pretty bad. Zuko has wanted to capture Aang and bring him to the Fire Nation where they will who knows what to him. Along with hurting each other, they have helped each other. And has said again and again, Aang could easily forgive Zuko. He has already offered to be friends and saved Zuko’s life.

Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?
To quote femaleairbender (because I really like the description) "Zuko is the "gray character". His role is that of an antihero; he's not completely good and not completely bad." As for Aang, he’s the young hero. His job is to save the world, even if everyone is against him.

[adictvbitrsweet]

Zutara.

Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

Judging by the season finale preview, I think it's safe to say that these two characters will be able to set aside their former hatred of each other. However, I don't think this is something that will go along smoothly, or quickly. It's something that takes time.

Both Katara and Zuko are known for holding grudges (i;e: Jet/Admiral Zhao, Azula). However, within this season, both characters have progressed and matured significantly, and seem to be handling the situations they fall into well. If both characters were presented with the opportunity to forgive the other last season, I think it's pretty safe to say that they would not have resolved their problems with each other. But now, in the second season (when this opportunity really is being presented to Zuko and Katara), I believe things will be handled differently then how they would have been. Both characters are different people. Circumstances have changed. Forgiveness is an option.

How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society?

No matter how you look at it, the backlash for a Zuko/Katara relationship will always be greater than the support, at least with the characters immediate associations/surroundings. Over time, I think that a Z/K relationship would be accepted, whether it be spitefully or respectfully or however else something can be accepted. Before that time, it's a safe bet to say that the road will be rocky, and hard, and possibly really painful. But that's part of the beauty of Zuko/Katara - in order to work, and in order to be accepted, it needs to get through a dark and painful road... and the only way they get through is together.

Anyway, we need to take into consideration the characters' respective groups. The only person Zuko really has is Iroh, and personally, I think that if Zuko were to come home and tell his uncle that he's fallen in love with a Water Tribe girl, Iroh would be thrilled. Zutara revolves around the unity of two (generally-speaking) opposing forces, the idea that a good thing can even come out of a relationship originally rooted in animosity. It relies on hope, faith, love, and perseverance. These are virtues that Iroh has been trying to hammer into Zuko for the past two seasons.

The main source of backlash I see is the Gaang, namely Sokka and Aang. Sokka, obviously, would be upset because his little sister is dating the Fire Nation heir to the throne that has been chasing his makeshift family for the past five-seven months. Aang's dislike would be a bit more deeply-rooted. I could see him becoming more vehement, more "abandon hope"-like, thanks to both his task to detach himself from Katara, and the sheer fact that she's being happy with another guy. Of course, vehemency could be an emotion that could hinder him in his quest to harness the Avatar State, so he might just become indifferent, borderline cold.

(But there's a bright side for Aang in all this. The high possibility of angry feelings and within Aang at the occurrence of a Zuko/Katara romance would be a perfect catalyst for firebending.

[You'll notice that in Season One, on occasions when Zuko was especially frustrated or angry, he has external expressions of firebending. You'll notice examples this in Episode 3, before he goes to have tea with Zhao, Episode 9, when Iroh takes the ship off course, and in Episode 12, when he is upset with Lieutenant Jee. Heck, even Aang's flame gets larger in The Deserter when he becomes annoyed for a split-second.]

Angry emotions are the perfect fuel for learning how to firebend, as well as to learn how to control the Avatar State. Of course, this doesn't quite ease the pain of being brokenhearted... but it just goes to show that Zutara isn't totally, completely, 100% detrimental to Aang. )

As for the Nations... in this current time frame, the idea of the heir to the Fire Nation throne and a mere Water Tribe civilian getting together would be outrageous. It just is. But maybe, after the War is over, the Nations could feel differently. Perhaps the coming together of two recently-warring people could be looked upon fondly, as an indication that people can be together again, that peace is back... finally.

Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

With Zutara, is has to be more. Zuko and Katara's past has been far too unstable and far too tumultuous to just have them say, "Wow, you're good-looking, let's go out." It would just take away so much from the relationship to have it play out like that. And it just would not work. Besides, there's more than enough these two have in common to bond over - it'd be a waste for their relationship to be comprised solely of physical attraction when they're so similar to each other.

As for how long it would last, I honestly have no idea. I could see it going on for a long time, blossoming with age, but I can't place it within the show. It's just so apparent that Katara/Aang will be the ship that is ultimately canon. Don't get me wrong - Zutara is. my. ship. But there has already been so much buildup and so much development with Kataang that it can't just fall down somewhere (if anything, I'd say that the Guru's advice for Aang to let go of Katara just seals the ship's fate in stone; it's at it's climax - blossoming love, big obstacle, love prevails).

However, I could definitely, definitely, definitely see Zutara still occurring in the show. As a learning experience. Both Zuko and Katara have a relationship, and they have fun, and they learn more about one another, but it's a relationship that serves to help the characters realize their true feelings. Things don't work out, but they leave the romance on good terms, and then they go their separate ways to what will make them truly happy. This is an idea I almost like better than most long-term romance ones. Sometimes those short relationships that help you discover are more valuable than a relationship that lasts for as long as you live. I believe Zutara could serve as this kind of relationship exceptionally well.

How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

Katara seems relatively open to change, and Zuko tends to be more reserved about it (Though judging by the v-cast preview, this certain attribute of Zuko is something that might be changing itself). Neither seems to forgive very easily, but even that seems to be changing. Katara forgave Jet in Episode 17, but she was also wary of him throughout the whole episode: this should give an indication of where she stands in terms of forgiveness. Zuko seems to take a lot longer to forgive - it seems he still hasn't truly forgiven himself for what's happened to his mom, and his obsessive search for the Avatar. However, this is something about him that also might change soon, so we'll have to wait and see.

In terms of Zuko and Katara forgiving one another, I only think Katara is the one that needs to do the forgiving - Zuko has been the main offender in most of their interaction. I think Katara would be able to forgive him, eventually - again, it's something that takes time.

How badly have the characters hurt each other?

It's more Zuko than Katara - anything she's done against him has been in self-defense, or defense of Aang. Zuko is the one who really needs to make up for what he's done. And he's hurt her pretty bad - threatening her grandma, constantly chasing her, knocking her unconscious. However, Zuko is still a changed guy; maybe if he shows her how he's a new person, he could slowly gain her trust.

Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve?

Katara is the guiding light for the group... and she's still finding her own way. She's the mother, the friend, the fighter - yet she still has her own destiny to follow.

Zuko is the anti-hero trying to figure out what he wants from life, but still serving a parallel to the main character, Aang. He shows how similar two incredibly different people can be, and how his choices affect the world just as much as the legendary Avatar's.

Have relationships like these happened in other shows?

Anti Hero/Lead Female? No, actually, I haven't seen that very often, except for a glimpse of it in Digimon when I was like, eight. But then, I don't watch too much TV. I think I read it in a book once, though. Sloppy Firsts. The cynical braniac developed a relationship with the once-druggie but quite insightful... anti hero. It's not a real great parallel, but it's the best I have. I'm not sure if it's happened in many other shows.

[girlunderglass]

This has to be THE best WD topic yet Gamb. Hats off to you. The answers thus far have been nothing short of amazing and well thought out. I am going to have a tough time bringing anything new to the table on this one. So, I will excuse myself from answering this round and utilize my time this week to catch up on everything I missed in my absence.

Thanks for making sure the brains have been picked.. much love to you!

[writer]

Zukka

--Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

Sokka is the grudge lord (well Jet is) and he and Zuko will have a lot of work to do. Sokka at first will seriously mistrust and blame him for a lot of things if they do hook up. My guess if, they do interact, if Zuko joins the gaang. Sokka will be aggressive and upfront. Depending if Zuko is still the angry type. They will be both frontal and offensive. Sokka however is forgiving as well. Once he understands he is more submissive and he will back down.


--How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society? What would happen to Azula and Zuko's chances at becoming Fire Lord/Lady if they were to marry a Water Tribe person? How would Gran Gran and Hakoda react if Sokka brought home a cute Fire Nation chick?

Gee I see a lot of confusion from all of them. Exspecially with Katara. She will be more confused and even shocked if Sokka told her about his feelings for Zuko. Iroh will be my guess. Interested. He knows Zuko is bad in relastionships and that any, would be benifical teachers. He would be watching closely my guess. As for family? I really don't know Hakoda to see how he would react with a gay relationship. Azual would be amused. And very annoyed.

--Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? (This especially applies to Maiko and Ty Lokka). Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

I think it would last. They are both boys with sad pasts and a lot of responbilies. They could relate to each other and contrast well.
They can forge something strong if they work on eachother's faults

--How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

Sokka is very arrogant. It will take awhile for his ego to drop. And Zuko is an A** in general, it will be more of Sokka first move to forgive, Zuko will be snipey about though.

--How badly have the characters hurt each other? Does Zuko's theft from Song end any possible relationship? Would Azula's possible murder of Suki end any possibility for a relationship with Sokka?

Zuko and Sokka fought against eachother, but it was more physcial pain then emotional, I see Sokka would like a rematch with Zuko anytime, to repair that ego of his.

--Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve? If Azula's role is "ultimate evil," can she be in a relationship? Is Mai just the childhood crush? Is Katara the mother?

Both of them have the same role, so they won't conflict with eachother as much. (both have warrior roles, Sokka as the Clumsy Warrior and Zuko as the Stoic Warrior)

--Have relationships like these happened in other shows? It's been said that there's no such thing as an original story--has the story of your ship already been told in another series? Or, is your ship totally unique, and if so what does that mean for its chances of actually happening?

Hmm is this pairing simlar. Well, it's not unique, WarriorShipping has been done, I feel it's simlar to maybe KenshinXSaitou, with both holding a strong Riviary, and even NarutoXSasake with the same theme, and even hatred.

[Love for Zuzu]

Zutara

Will these two characters be able to set aside their former hatred? Are these characters who have been known to hold grudges in the past?

I'm not sure that Zuko ever really hated Katara. I mean, his goal was to catch the Avatar and she was just an obstacle mostly. I don't think he's ever had a reason to really hate her or hold a grudge.
Katara, on the other hand, has many reasons to hate Zuko but I don't think it's in her nature to do so. She just seems like the forgive and forget type.

How would the characters react to a possible backlash from friends/family/society? What would happen to Azula and Zuko's chances at becoming Fire Lord/Lady if they were to marry a Water Tribe person? How would Gran Gran and Hakoda react if Sokka brought home a cute Fire Nation chick?

I think, at this point in the story, Zuko might be over getting approval from people who don't care about him. The only opinon that will matter will be Iroh's and I'm sure that he just wants Zuko to be happy. And the same for Katara's family. I could see Sokka throwing a fit about it, Hakoda might disapprove (we don't really know anything about his character), but in the end if she's happy they will be happy for her.

Is the relationship just physical attraction, or is it something more? (This especially applies to Maiko and Ty Lokka). Is the relationship one that would last, or one that would quickly burn out?

The way I see this relationship in my head, is Katara getting a crush on Zuko after she learns more about his past and what he's been trough. She gains respect and affection for him and I think he will be oblivious to it (ie: Jin- "That girl, she knows we're fire nation!") but start to enjoy the attention. It'll be really graceful (I hope that makes sense, it's the only way I could think to describe it), and it's relationships like those that last the longest, imo.

How open are the characters to change? How easily do they forgive?

I think Katara forgives very easily, or at least in this case she would because under everything, Zuko really wasn't trying to capture the Avatar for the glory like Zhao, he just wanted to go back home, and she'll warm to that.
Again, Zuko doesn't have to forgive Katara for anything, but I think he'd be a little harder to change. He's quite stubborn, but I think he'd slowly open to her maybe relating stories of their childhood or something, and in that way he'll come around.

How badly have the characters hurt each other?

I really don't think either of them has hurt the other dramatically. Sure, Katara's necklace was a harsh situation, but she got it back and this falls into the same category as above, forgivness.

Examining Avatar from a more critical standpoint, what role does each character serve? If Azula's role is "ultimate evil," can she be in a relationship? Is Mai just the childhood crush? Is Katara the mother?

I think Katara being a motherly figure is what makes her perfect for Zuko. He just needs someone other than his uncle to understand and comfort him. Zuko is the raw nerve. He's sensitive, angry, stubborn, but it's all just an act to protect himself. I think Katara has the ability to bring him out of his shell.

Have relationships like these happened in other shows? It's been said that there's no such thing as an original story--has the story of your ship already been told in another series? Or, is your ship totally unique, and if so what does that mean for its chances of actually happening?

Sigh...I almost hate myself for knowing this and being able to use it as an example, but....in Dawsons Creek Joey and Pacey started out hating one another. They fought, traded snide comments, the whole bag and then they were sort of forced onto one another. They were spending more and more time together and feelings grew, and were denied, grew somemore, and were denied, and continued growing until they finally got together and it was happily ever after and stuff.... I just thought of a cooler example, but I'm thinking some people here might be too young to really understand it. Sam and Diane...anyone? anyone?

Oddly enough, I'm not a Zutara shipper, because there is no proof to back it up, but I think that these two character personality types go very well together. They balance each other out and for this reason I think, if the creators decided to go that way, it would work, all things considered.

...I don't really know why, but an image of Katara a Helga Pataki (Hey Arnold) just popped into my head.

*Katara, behind a tree, pulls out a locket with Zukos picture in it.
"Oh Zuko, arrogant price, stubborn fool, how I loathe him...and yet...*sigh* I love him. Everything about him from his scar to his short temper. How I long for the day when I can tell you my feelings!
*heavy breathing is heard, katara turns around Aang is there, she decks him*

lol...sorry, I had to get that out before I went to bed or I'd be thinking about it all night.