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Post by Amira on Jun 23, 2006 7:52:43 GMT -5
And quite honestly, the only thing I can see Zutara has going for it is the fandom. Zuko's exalted to some higher status of sexiness and maturity, Katara is no longer a 14 year old girl still having first experiences. Having such strong notions about a ship and its principal characters leads one to project it as absolute. And this is true for both sides.
But the thing that I see is that many Zutara supporters speak of things that just aren't there (i.e. Aang's immaturity) to justify a relationship between Zuko and Katara, often forgetting that Zuko himself is immature and like Gotter said, so far has shown no interest in girls. In fact Sokka, Aang, Katara, Ty Lee, Mai, etc. all have have all had romantic relationships (or at least romantic feelings). Only the Fire Lord's children have rejected or not been interested in romance.
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Post by Mashnii on Jun 23, 2006 8:04:01 GMT -5
And quite honestly, the only thing I can see Zutara has going for it is the fandom. Zuko's exalted to some higher status of sexiness and maturity, Katara is no longer a 14 year old girl still having first experiences. Having such strong notions about a ship and its principal characters leads one to project it as absolute. And this is true for both sides. But the thing that I see is that many Zutara supporters speak of things that just aren't there (i.e. Aang's immaturity) to justify a relationship between Zuko and Katara, often forgetting that Zuko himself is immature and like Gotter said, so far has shown no interest in girls. In fact Sokka, Aang, Katara, Ty Lee, Mai, etc. all have have all had romantic relationships (or at least romantic feelings). Only the Fire Lord's children have rejected or not been interested in romance. Y'know, that makes alot of sense! I think that I'll exalt you, once my hour's up.
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Lady Liesl
Refugee Aang
Katara is SRS BUSINESS GAIS!
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Post by Lady Liesl on Jun 23, 2006 9:08:34 GMT -5
And quite honestly, the only thing I can see Zutara has going for it is the fandom. Zuko's exalted to some higher status of sexiness and maturity, Katara is no longer a 14 year old girl still having first experiences. Having such strong notions about a ship and its principal characters leads one to project it as absolute. And this is true for both sides. But the thing that I see is that many Zutara supporters speak of things that just aren't there (i.e. Aang's immaturity) to justify a relationship between Zuko and Katara, often forgetting that Zuko himself is immature and like Gotter said, so far has shown no interest in girls. In fact Sokka, Aang, Katara, Ty Lee, Mai, etc. all have have all had romantic relationships (or at least romantic feelings). Only the Fire Lord's children have rejected or not been interested in romance. karma for you. this paragraph has made my day--possibly week.
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silverdreams
Avatar Kyoshi
Opposites are confusing...
Posts: 1,383
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Post by silverdreams on Jun 23, 2006 10:13:22 GMT -5
And quite honestly, the only thing I can see Zutara has going for it is the fandom. Zuko's exalted to some higher status of sexiness and maturity, Katara is no longer a 14 year old girl still having first experiences. Having such strong notions about a ship and its principal characters leads one to project it as absolute. And this is true for both sides. But the thing that I see is that many Zutara supporters speak of things that just aren't there (i.e. Aang's immaturity) to justify a relationship between Zuko and Katara, often forgetting that Zuko himself is immature and like Gotter said, so far has shown no interest in girls. In fact Sokka, Aang, Katara, Ty Lee, Mai, etc. all have have all had romantic relationships (or at least romantic feelings). Only the Fire Lord's children have rejected or not been interested in romance. Yes, definatley Karma for you once my hours up! Also... it makes me wonder... WHy don't the firelord's children find interest in romance of any kind? hmmm...... well, azula tried to pair zuko up with mai, and caused zuko to think girls are crazy but... hmm....
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
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Post by femaleairbender on Jun 23, 2006 10:27:57 GMT -5
And quite honestly, the only thing I can see Zutara has going for it is the fandom. Zuko's exalted to some higher status of sexiness and maturity, Katara is no longer a 14 year old girl still having first experiences. Having such strong notions about a ship and its principal characters leads one to project it as absolute. And this is true for both sides. But the thing that I see is that many Zutara supporters speak of things that just aren't there (i.e. Aang's immaturity) to justify a relationship between Zuko and Katara, often forgetting that Zuko himself is immature and like Gotter said, so far has shown no interest in girls. In fact Sokka, Aang, Katara, Ty Lee, Mai, etc. all have have all had romantic relationships (or at least romantic feelings). Only the Fire Lord's children have rejected or not been interested in romance. You'll be getting karma from me! To add to that, I've noticed some Zutara fanfictions don't show the reactions of the characters when Zuko and Katara end up together. In canon, Sokka would have a fit and Aang's heart would be broken.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 23, 2006 11:56:16 GMT -5
This is kinda off subject...I think.
Well anyways I have to tell you that being surrounded by so many Katangs is kinda overwhelming. I've never been in this situation, but I love hearing what you have to say. I do consider it all, trust me on that. And all of your complaints about Zutara fics and the whole relationship in general is making me think. No, I won't be converting to Katangs (hehe) but I am taking all of this into consideration when I write my newest fic.
Sorry I just had to let you all know. And I agree with that second paragraph, amiraelizabeth.
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Post by Amira on Jun 23, 2006 15:24:44 GMT -5
and for that you get karma, lunachaos. As soon as I can give it (waits an hour).
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silverdreams
Avatar Kyoshi
Opposites are confusing...
Posts: 1,383
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Post by silverdreams on Jun 23, 2006 18:21:46 GMT -5
*pokes battlefeild*
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Post by Confettie on Jun 23, 2006 18:32:48 GMT -5
that such a good point Amira! I'd karma you too, but sadly I have to wait an hour too.
That quote really make you think about how Azula and Zuko feel about love. The only think their family seems to be concern about is power.
Next from the last page what would Katara do if Aang dies at the end of the series. For me she won't go looking for love I honestly believe that she would go in search for the next Avatar. After she find the next Avatar she will train the kid and make sure the kid grows up right. To finish the job Aang was not able to do, put the world back in order.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
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Post by daydream11 on Jun 23, 2006 18:52:26 GMT -5
that such a good point Amira! I'd karma you too, but sadly I have to wait an hour too. That quote really make you think about how Azula and Zuko feel about love. The only think their family seems to be concern about is power. May I please answer that? Like, honestly and from my point of view? I can? Okay... That may just be it- that because of how they grew up and the people they were/are surrounded by, they don't feel about love at all. Think about it. For Zuko - Daddy hates you. He deep down inside hates your guts. You have no clue why. Is it because baby sis' is your superior in every way? Maybe. Is it because you were the reason she ran away? Probably. Is it because you are seen as a weakling in the eyes of his father and the nation? Most likely. Whatever it is, he hates you with as much energy as he could. He even burned half of your face and banished you because he can't stnad the sight of you.
- Speaking of baby sis', she's out to get you. Plain and simple. She'll do anything to bring you down- humilate you, degrade you, call you names, throw blue lightning at you in order to kill you, make sure you know that Mom ran away because of you- but twist it into something negative. She's Daddy's mini-me, only in female form and more hands-on.
- And the world hates you, too. Because you're Fire Nation and royal (banished or not, it doesn't matter), you are seen as the lowest form of scum (whatever that may be) in everyone's eyes: a murderur, a liar, and everything in-between. So it doesn't matter if Daddy hates you- even if he didn't, we'd do it enough for him, and then some.
So if I was Zuko, I wouldn't be ready for love at all. Not now, not later, maybe even never, so the last thing he should be doing is runnig to a little waterbender for help. That's a tough burden to carry and what's worse, he barely does at all. He needs to figure it out on his own before jumping into any kind of romantic relationship with anybody. For Azula - You were raised to be a Fire prodigy and everything that went with it. If that meant being a sociapath-a**, then so be it.
- Daddy-kins- just look at him. That's enough to turn anybody away from love, now isn't it?
- Not only that, but you're Fire Nation...royalty! Which means that you're expected to be whatever "honorable" Fire Nation leader should be- manipulative, powerful, possessive, arrogant, and prideful so much that it puts others in danger, and eventually yourself.
That's why I think the Fire children aren't into love the way the other characters are.
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Gotterdammerung
Casual Zuko
sorry. i'm fresh out of the ability to care.
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Post by Gotterdammerung on Jun 23, 2006 19:39:44 GMT -5
I think Zuko's just pre-occupied. And also a prude.
Meanwhile, Azula's a little too sociopathic for love and crushes, I think.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
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Post by daydream11 on Jun 23, 2006 19:51:42 GMT -5
I think Zuko's just pre-occupied. And also a prude. Meanwhile, Azula's a little too sociopathic for love and crushes, I think. That too! lol
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adictvbitrsweet
Avatar Korra
I am aware I've been misled; I disconnect my heart, my head
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Post by adictvbitrsweet on Jun 23, 2006 20:58:34 GMT -5
While I absolutely adore all the points that are coming up, we have to remember that all of this is being spoken about as of now: the season isn't over, developments are on the way, and even after that we have twenty more installments to add to the story. Anything could happen, for both Zutara and Kataang, and Maiko, and Sy, and yes, even Soko. Let's not predicate too heavily. It's not over 'til your underground . So. Relationships. Personal Theory: Although Zuko/Katara is what I'm hoping for as the outcome, I'm really just looking for the characters' happiness in the end. Whether it comes from or Katara/Aang or Mai/Zuko or Zuko/Katara or something else isn't too important to me. I really like all of the pairings a lot, really, But Zuko/Katara is just the ship that appeals to me most. Simple. Rankings? 1. Katara/Zuko 2. Katara/Aang 3. Sokka/Ty Lee 4. Mai/Zuko 5. Toph/Teo 6. Koh/Azula O.O Yes, it's true. I'm Zutarian and I don't ship Tophaang. You can stop fainting. (just kidding, silly But I don't ship it. It's 'just friends' for me.)re: the fandom Amiraelizabeth, I agree with you totally on the fandom situation. I hate how such false representations of Zuko in fanfiction and fanart automatically makes the masses think that he's some Sexy Hotness Overlord...thing. I think that many Zutarians, sadly, are twisting the characters to fit their own mold, and it makes me angry because it eventually influences a lot of the fandom to see the characters in a different, inaccurate light, as well as makes a bad impression on a lot of the ship itself. And don't get me started on the lack of Aang. He's one of my favorite characters, and it's gets so incredibly annoying to just see him canceled out like that. It's just...eugh. Not cool. I'm really starting to hate most of the fandom these days. I don't read shipping fics anymore, and I mostly go to fanartists that don't make their identity off of shipping. re: Ready for Love I totally agree. He should definitely not become romantically involved with anyone right now. He has too many issues to deal with, and if even if he did decide to start a relationship, it'd be one-sided support. The person he starts a relationship with would just be a pole for him to lean on, and they'd get nothing out of it. It's the same situation with Iroh right now. Zuko's main support system in Iroh, and while Zuko has been benefiting (ever so slowly), Iroh has not gained anything from of it. It's a Win/Lose situation - win for Zuko, lose for other. Or Lose/Lose, too. Depends on how you look at it. However, I like to hold onto the hope that if he accepts what's happened to him, figures out his personal issues, and makes the full 180-degree turn from antagonist to protagonist, there will be some kind of affection there to greet him and bring him some joy in the end. Put into simpler words: I want a happy ending for Zuko. Almost like a "Someday my Prince will come" situation thrown into reverse. To make it Zutarian, I would like the "prince" to be Katara. Simple as that. Of course, none of this will happen soon, if ever. There is no proof, no validity in this idea. It's all long-term wishing, really. re: Maturity Once again, the result of an ignorant fandom. Many people (and not just Zutarians) seem to think that the fact that Aang is twelve automatically makes him immature. Maybe his sometimes goofy antics contribute to this idea, but in the end it simply isn't true. I don't like it when other Zuko/Katara fans use this as proof when it so obviously is not. Another bad reflection on the ship by those who don't think things out. Oy. Almighty, I only partially agree with you when you say that Zuko is immature. While I do agree that some level of immaturity resides in him, I think another big part of it is insecurity. He's been somewhat inadequate his whole life, and that will start and has started to take a toll on him. He's constantly had to defend himself from ridicule from Azula, or make himself untouchable those he thinks might find him not good enough. It has made him kind of hostile and cold, and that can be mistaken for denial or immaturity. But underneath it is probably the constant worry, Am I good enough?. He probably became so expert with broadswords as a way of making himself better than Azula, which is subconsciously a way of trying to make himself more adequate or worth something. Unless insecurity is a branch of immaturity. But I kind of don't agree with that. So...Yeah. Zuko's insecure. That's all I've got for now - Kinda tired here on the East Coast.
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silverdreams
Avatar Kyoshi
Opposites are confusing...
Posts: 1,383
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Post by silverdreams on Jun 23, 2006 21:33:30 GMT -5
theres way too many karma-worthy people today... thankyou adictvbitrsweet. I also, am a zutarian who doesn't like taang. (however, katang is my fav and zutara comes second, but pretty close) And what you said is great. :3
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Post by almighty on Jun 23, 2006 21:35:50 GMT -5
Almighty, I only partially agree with you when you say that Zuko is immature. While I do agree that some level of immaturity resides in him, I think another big part of it is insecurity. He's been somewhat inadequate his whole life, and that will start and has started to take a toll on him. He's constantly had to defend himself from ridicule from Azula, or make himself untouchable those he thinks might find him not good enough. It has made him kind of hostile and cold, and that can be mistaken for denial or immaturity. But underneath it is probably the constant worry, Am I good enough?. He probably became so expert with broadswords as a way of making himself better than Azula, which is subconsciously a way of trying to make himself more adequate or worth something. Unless insecurity is a branch of immaturity. But I kind of don't agree with that. So...Yeah. Zuko's insecure. Right. Zuko is insecure and immature. When compared to the rest of the cast, he is immature, is he not? The other cast has it tough too, but rather than being like Zuko, who refuses to accept help when he knows he needs it, they support each other which can be considered mature. Zuko's immaturity relies in the way he acts and the attitude that he portrays. Setting any under the surface knowlegdge of Zuko aside, he is seen as a bit whiny, throws tantrums, complains, and unaccepting. We know that it's caused by his inner turmoil and insecurities. Let's compare him to Aang. Aang also has his insecurities. He's the avatar, but he also wonders if he's ever good enough. He's always afraid that he might fail his duties and believes that he can always do better. However, unlike Zuko, he doesn't dwell on his insecurities. Instead, he tries to prove himself wrong and makes others proud. Zuko, on the otherhand, believes in his insecurities. He tries to make himself and others believe that he is strong, but he cannot admit his faults nor can he accept anybody who is willing to help him. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that Aang also suffers with pretty much the same insecurities as Zuko. Because he's the avatar, he has so much pressure, and people place such high expectations on him. However, Aang always tries his best and believes that he will make a difference. Although Ozai compares Zuko and Azula all the time, Zuko also compares himself to his sister. The difference between them is the choices that they are making. Aang is making positive choices that not only benefit him but benefit others as well. Zuko is making choices that seem to make him suffer more than he already has to, which, in my opinion, is what makes Zuko immature.
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