+Javu+
Hakoda
[Keeper of the Seven Chakras]
Posts: 1,953
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Post by +Javu+ on Feb 13, 2008 19:00:18 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me. But it seems like Naruto doesn't have a whole lot of abilities. So after the two-year time skip, we meet Naruto again. And when Kakashi does the bell-training again, we see that Naruto is better with dealing with his shadow-clones. And he can summon off of scrolls some weapons.
Then the whole saving Gaara arc. Naruto learned that double-rasengon thing....but that's it. And with the whole Sai/Sasuke deal, he didn't show much improvement. Yeah, he did a lot of damage with the kyuubi taking over, but that was the kyuubi, not Naruto.
Then Naruto learned the Shurasenganken...? I'm not sure what's thats called. The completed rasengan anyway. Which is awsome! But he can't use it because it tears up his hand. So.....?
And then Sasuke. We can see right off the bat that Sasuke has super-cool stuff. The Chirodi is now huge and he can summon creepy snakes. And now he's taking on Itachi where as Kakashi sorta failed at that.
It just seems to me that Naruto hasn't improved much. And it's really frustrating, cause Yamato says Naruto is so strong....and Kakashi is wondering if Naruto has surpassed him....and Tsunade is saying that Naruto will become Hokage one day....well, where in the world are they getting that information? I mean, yeah, he never gives up and stuff and that's a great quality to have. But it's not so much of a use if you don't have any power to back it up with.
Comments?
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Post by Musogato on Feb 13, 2008 19:48:28 GMT -5
You're forgetting Naruto's ability to summon toads including Gamabunta who can be immensely helpful, plus his fast healing ability. Another one of Naruto's "powers" is his charisma and ability to make (most) people quickly or eventually grow to like him, thus giving him a wide range of allies. Plus you can't really discount Kyuubi and the shuriken-rasengan just because they're very dangerous to Naruto -- if push comes to shove do you really think Naruto wouldn't use them again to help him win?
He might not have a slew of new jutsu, but that doesn't mean he's not powerful. Especially since the manga still has a lot to cover -- there's plenty of time for Naruto to learn some more tricks. If he was super-powerful right off the bat, then there wouldn't be much room for him to grow and he wouldn't be the underdog that he's been since the beginning.
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Post by Tungsten on Feb 14, 2008 15:48:10 GMT -5
I think that Jiaraya training mainly consisted of using and controlling the nine tail foxes power. The fact that Naruto was able to go from one tail to four tails is rather impressive, that almost half the power of the nine tails. Also Naruto is able to use his rasengan a lot better, easily able to summon it and also create a bigger more devestating version. But most of his growth has been shown by his more subtle skills. Now he's more of an overall well balanced ninja.
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+Javu+
Hakoda
[Keeper of the Seven Chakras]
Posts: 1,953
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Post by +Javu+ on Feb 15, 2008 17:06:09 GMT -5
I guess I can see your points. But it just seems like they, as in Kishimoto [?], are like holding back on Naruto. Like we've seen Sasuke fight, and have all these new jutsus. And Sakura even has 'super-strength' as Naruto puts it and has healing abilities. But Naruto...well yeah. I mean, I know he has some good stuff, but is it good enough? Like in an everyday battle?
For example. Naruto tried to get the rasengan on Tobi from going behind him. And Tobi totally struck him down. And then Sasuke is fighting Itachi, and he's not only holding out, but the outcome is unclear, coming off from Zetsu. And Itachi says he's better than Tobi, but sort of don't think so. But still.
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Post by Musogato on Feb 15, 2008 23:41:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't doubt if Kishimoto is holding Naruto back for now. Although he is the title character, someone (on LJ I think?) said that the other characters need to be expanded on and fleshed out for Naruto's impact to mean something and for the story to be really good. Sasuke has had a *lot* of attention in Shippuden, but since he's the one Naruto has yet to "save," it makes sense that he would be given a lot of attention to see how he has changed/grown since he didn't get mini-training arcs like Naruto usually does when he learns a new move. That way when they finally meet up again, the information and growth for both isn't so one-sided. As for Sakura, she needed to gain some new signature attacks because she really didn't have much at all in part 1 aside from book smarts. Naruto may not have grown too much jutsu-wise in Shippuden as he did in part one, but that doesn't mean he's not as strong as he was then. Learning to better control what you currently have is just as important as learning new techniques. I'd be a little more worried about Naruto in major fights than in everyday battles -- his shadow clones and Rasengan are more than enough to take out regular foes. As for what happened with Tobi, didn't the Rasengan not work because Naruto went right through him like a ghost? Besides, if Tobi really is Madara then of course it won't be an easy win for Naruto. It'll probably be long and drawn out and any new tricks Naruto has been hiding or waiting to try, or makes up on the spot will probably be shown then, or won't and there'll be another training arc after they get away from Tobi. I personally think it's more exciting when the outcome isn't clear, like with Sasuke vs. Itachi. But I agree, it's hard to tell if Itachi is stronger than Tobi. Although one of the main themes of this story is the next generation outshining the old one (or something like that. I can't remember the exact saying. ), Tobi shouldn't be counted out just yet. I mean, I don't think we've really seen him fight at all, except to know he took out that ocean bijuu.
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+Javu+
Hakoda
[Keeper of the Seven Chakras]
Posts: 1,953
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Post by +Javu+ on Feb 16, 2008 10:28:19 GMT -5
I get what you mean by 'holding Naruto back', which makes sense now. It does make it more exciting and tension-building. But I can't help but want to see Naruto do something really big. Like totally knock Sasuke's or Itachi's pants off....not literally of course. But you know? Do something really cool. And I guess Kishi is just focusing on other characters to draw away the speculation that Naruto might have learned something big....?
As for the normal/every day sort of fights. I sort of meant by every day is that the fight is 'normal'. And I mean by normal is that its just ninja vs. ninja. Fights I would consider not being normal are like the Sasuke vs. Naruto at the VotE and Naruto vs. Orochimaru at that bridge. I guess, by my definition, a not normal fight is where either Naruto uses the kyuubi or the kyuubi takes over, or somebody else uses some other source of chakra to fight. Like Sasuke using his seal, or the Five Sound nin in the Sasuke retrieval arc.
As for the options you said. I think another training arc would be cool. Maybe he could some how find a way to use the shurikan rasengan without damaging his hand. Or find a way to use the kyuubi's chakra, in the form of chakra with Naruto still in complete control -- of the kyuubi and his emotions. Or....this is stretching it. But what if Kakashi somehow knew the Thunder God technique? And for some reason Kakashi couldn't do it, but he knew how to do it and then taught it to Naruto. But....that probably won't happen. And I wish Naruto could make up his own jutsu on his own, but he's just not quite...bright, I guess, to do that.
As for Tobi. I think there's more to him than meets the eye. What really puzzles me is that if he did found Akatsuki, why didn't he lead it? And just recently, Sasori died and Tobi took his place. So after all of that time he just became a member, not the leader, of Akatsuki? Unless he thought that leading it would somehow bring attention to himself. But Konoha just found out about it, so it wasn't like right infront of. Then again, Jiraya said that he thought that Yondaime knew something of 'Tobi' and knew he was up to something. Which is a whole 'nother thing. What connection was there between Tobi and Yondaime? And I don't think we can ignore that. More than 16 years ago Yondaime knew something of Tobi, or rather...MaUch. After he died, well, the secret sort of went with him. So maybe Kishi is hiding something of Tobi also.
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Post by katie Uzumaki on Feb 16, 2008 10:33:10 GMT -5
Well, when push comes to shove, most of Naruto's training is really experimenting with the Kyuubi and trying to controlling it. I guess that has hellped him to become stronger, but it leaves little room to learn new moves. Naruto's attacks are awesome, but yeah, Sasuke has been using a bunch of cool stuff. ANd, still, when you think about it, he has had to leaven to control the Curse seal too but it was probably a lot easier than lurning to control a demon that wants to break out. Plus, Sasuke has been taught mass amounts of Jutsus because Orochimaru wants to use him as a new body, so I guess the more he knows the more Orochimaru will know when they "trade bodies" even thought they did not But, Jairaya must have thought that the most important thing was to teach Naruto to use the power he has to help him to make his attacks stronger, reather than more jutsus. Dont get me wrong, Naruto is strong and his attacks totally PWN, but Sasuke is also strong and his many jutsus can really help him to win a battle because he has more to use in difficult situations where he would only be able to use that. I guess you have a point, Naruto does not know a huge amount of jutsus, but they are very strong. And another thing, have you noticed that all his jutsus revolve around Shadow Clones and partly the Rasengan (sp?)(except the summoning)? That is kind of a weakness too. WHat happens when he can use Shadow clones and can hardly use Rasengan? I guess he would somehow escape, because him dieing would end the serese, but that also goes back to him learning to control the Kyuubi's chakra.
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+Javu+
Hakoda
[Keeper of the Seven Chakras]
Posts: 1,953
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Post by +Javu+ on Feb 16, 2008 20:09:43 GMT -5
That's also true.
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Post by Chibi Chan-o on Feb 16, 2008 21:07:51 GMT -5
I guess I can see your points. But it just seems like they, as in Kishimoto [?], are like holding back on Naruto. Like we've seen Sasuke fight, and have all these new jutsus. And Sakura even has 'super-strength' as Naruto puts it and has healing abilities. But Naruto...well yeah. I mean, I know he has some good stuff, but is it good enough? Like in an everyday battle? For example. Naruto tried to get the rasengan on Tobi from going behind him. And Tobi totally struck him down. And then Sasuke is fighting Itachi, and he's not only holding out, but the outcome is unclear, coming off from Zetsu. And Itachi says he's better than Tobi, but sort of don't think so. But still. You're forgetting Tobi didn't incur any damage whatsoever from Sasuke or Deidara's explosive suicide. If he can survive those, I'm sure Naruto's attempts would end up the same way. I think mostly of the stuff he learned with Jiraiya was Kyuubi control, which doesn't seem to work when he becomes angry (like with the bridge incident). It does make you wonder....
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Post by stinkypinky on Feb 16, 2008 22:44:39 GMT -5
Well there is still "that Jutsu" that Jiraiya has told Naruto not to use, and I highly doubt it's KN4, because Naruto is not even aware he goes into that state. And lets not keep the KN levels out because Naruto is able to use the Kyuubi's chakra on his own free will up to 4 tails, that in itself takes will power and strength, which I think Jiraiya mainly focused on on on their 3 year training. He uses his shadow clones more wisely, than just throwing them all over the place, and he is a better tactician (Chouji even said Naruto was smart just not a smart as Shikamaru) he still though does rushes into things without thought, but he learns from his mess ups.
I am a little frustrated that whenever Naruto does something extremely powerful it comes with a great price, for example his new Fuuton shiruken rasengan. It's extremely powerful it destroyed all of Kakuzu's cells but also did considerable harm on Naruto, that Tsunade had even warned him against using it again.
Now compared to what Sasuke does, it does seem like Naruto hasn't learned much, but Sasuke too also uses more or less the same moves. Chidori( just in a different way, just like Naruto does with the rasengan) his Sharingan (uber haxx), and the seal.
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Post by Chibi Chan-o on Feb 16, 2008 23:07:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Naruto's moves always come with a price. But if Sasuke goes any farther, he'll probably end up like Itachi or Madara.
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ow
Katara
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Post by ow on Feb 26, 2008 19:09:40 GMT -5
I agree w/ most of you guys but you forgetting Naruto was the one who made the most progress over the timeskip. He changed from a dumb*** to a skilled "genin" (jounin level)
Sasuke was born a genious and has the same powers as before just a lttle enhanced jutsus that mostly consists and derive from that old chidori move
Ithink that they are equal in power to some degree
Sasuke = Inheretid Sharingan, Cursed Seal
Naruto = Kyuubi, naturally skilled like minato
*without sharingan sasuke is a bunny compared to naruto
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Post by Chibi Chan-o on Mar 1, 2008 18:52:57 GMT -5
Yeah, Sasuke cheated. He was born great. So was Neji. I like the characters who worked themselves up, like Sakura. I think she's had the most growth, next to Naruto.
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+Javu+
Hakoda
[Keeper of the Seven Chakras]
Posts: 1,953
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Post by +Javu+ on Mar 2, 2008 23:48:34 GMT -5
Yeah...so maybe Naruto will come through with sheer will power and guts and beat Sasuke's heir power.....*half joking*
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Post by katie Uzumaki on Mar 20, 2008 13:15:03 GMT -5
*without sharingan sasuke is a bunny compared to naruto Agreed. Its cheating, but it does give Naruto more of a challenge to train more and to become stronger. Yeah, Sakura had come a long way, which I really like about her. In face, the main reason I like sasuke as little as I do is because his power was given to him and hes a bit of a snob. Neji is better, because even with his awesome power he had to train huge amounts and surpass his family...and stuff. But Sasuke had only Itachi to pass, but he really cheated with Orochimaru. Neji had no one but Tenten to train with him. Neji taught himself, basically.
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