fuego
Pabu
Four Nation Health Care
Posts: 3,430
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Post by fuego on Aug 18, 2008 4:40:33 GMT -5
never really saw that and add a more deep layer to Maiko then expected...love both your points it funny that for such opposites of Zutara, they pretty much had a same agreement like TSR.
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random bender
Appa
Gone for ever back again! are you happy? ^^
Posts: 201
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Post by random bender on Aug 18, 2008 10:51:17 GMT -5
it seemed zuko and katara had alot in common, both lost ther mothers, anger problems (if you dont think katara had anger problem in the 2nd and 3rd books you have problems) anyway but even thogh they have those in commen i still think mai and zuko are the best couple becase they have less in commen and opposites attract, they even each other out and they are cute together ^^. plus zuko cant get with katara becase aang would die ( inside).
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Post by Paraiba Ocean on Aug 18, 2008 13:31:32 GMT -5
You just took an age old Zutara argument and applied it to Maiko. ;; While opposites may "attract," that doesn't necessarily mean the attraction lasts. There's a fine line between lust and love--and what you've described to me sounds more like lust than love. That's not to say Maiko isn't a relationship of love, I just think you should find a better reasoning for your pairing. XD
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Post by Scarlett Ember on Aug 20, 2008 9:16:19 GMT -5
I don't like how it seems it has to be one or the other. Either they are opposites attract or they work because they have so much in common. To me, good relationships require both. I can use my own parents as a good example. My mom is very short-tempered and impulsive and she is also very opinionated. My dad is very even-tempered, calm, and tries to look at things from different perspectives. They balance each other out that way. But they also have a lot in common as far as belifs, interests, and most of their opinions are very similar.
That's why I see Zutara more than Maiko. Zuko and Katara have personality qualities that are very different but would balance each other out. But they also have similar pasts and having to grow up because of losing their mothers puts them on a similar maturity level. The scenes with Katara yelling at Zuko or getting mad at him, he always stays quiet and takes it. It makes me think of my parents, because when my mom is upset my dad knows when to just take it and when to say something to try and calm her down. Zuko has seemed to have a bad temper before, but from all the Zuko/Katara interactions, he's been very respectful and lets her vent out her anger. In the catacombs he did speak up, and it ended up calming her down. Because of those interactions, I don't see them as having explosive arguments. Zuko hasn't proven to be that way with her.
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Post by ZamKenobi on Aug 20, 2008 10:43:31 GMT -5
As for Zuko, they actually brought out the worst in each other in The Southern Raiders. In his want of Katara's acceptance, and probably his own Mommy issues, he indulges in the kind of cynicism he had been trying hard to move past. That's why (also, this is getting back on-topic and everyone needs to follow) he needs Mai and not Katara. Zuko and Katara both have such passion and "my way or the high way" view that getting them together would just be explosive. But Mai and Zuko pull each other into the middle so they aren't caring too much or too little. I agree with this, but at the same time, it seemed so out of character for me that it was almost impossible for me to accept. I'm not sure how much I should go into why I think that episode OOC because I know that was something that Scarlett Ember was discussing, but the thing that bothered me most about that episode was Zuko. I can understand his desperation to get her to accept him, but what he did and how he acted seemed to contradict his earlier actions. His sarcasm with Aang and Sokka really bothered me because he had just become friends with them. I can't remember a time when Zuko was ever sarcastic before (feel free to correct me, I just can't remember). When it comes to something this important, literally life or death for someone, I can see Zuko getting angry and saying "no, you're wrong," but blatantly disrespecting the opinion of another person just didn't seem like him to me. Especially considering it was with people he had just made friends with. His uncle is his family, and even though disrespecting family isn't necesarily more acceptable, it's more understandable. It seemed strange that he was so comfortable with them so quickly. Then there comes the question of how much Zuko has changed. They try to make it out like he's a good person, and then they make him seem ok with the idea of helping Katara kill someone, even if that person killed her mother. I don't want to go into the moral argument of whether it's ok to kill someone who is evil and has done you terribly, terribly wrong, but the message that I took from that episode is that even if you can't forgive someone, killing them, or even taking revenge, isn't the answer. Zuko doesn't even seem like the type of person to take revenge himself, much less help Katara do it. With Azula, with his father, it never seemed like revenge when he faced them. He knows that Katara is a kind, loving person, and he thinks that killing the person who killed her mother is going to help her in any way? It just doesn't make sense to me. He's seen what her anger has changed her into, so I can't see why he thinks what he did would help. Facing the man, sure, killing him, no. Yet he even helped her almost torture people. My overall point is that Zuko can be an angry person sometimes. Violent, sometimes, but most of the time, especially after he's changed, it's to protect people, not harm them. Then suddenly, out of the blue, he thinks that violence is the answer to the problems of someone who is angry but obviously deep down not the kind of person who would do this with a clear mind. I realize that even after his little epiphany and facing his father that Zuko isn't going to change completely all at once, it just seems like something I wouldn't see him doing even when he was "evil." And then there's Katara's forgiveness that I really don't get where it's coming from, since it's like you said, they brought out the worse in each other in this episode. Helped her face her mother's killer or not, it seemed like a pretty weak reason for her to forgive him so easily. So to me it seemed like what made them not good for each other in that episode wasn't even part of their character's at all. I can understand if you see it differently, but that's just the way I saw it. That episode was a huge disappointment to me, for the reasons I've listed and others.
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Post by Scarlett Ember on Aug 21, 2008 21:10:59 GMT -5
karma, Suzume!
I know I've tried on several occasions to explain how I saw them as OOC in the episode, and you did an excellent job. And I also agree that the most unbelievable part of the episode was Zuko. For Katara, I sort of understood her behavior since her mother has always been a sensitive area for her. It made her emotional, and so the way she acted was a little more understandable. I thought Zuko's behavior was completely OOC, though, for the reasons you stated.
Zuko, even when he was a "bad guy" was always honorable and understood respect. He didn't always show it to Iroh, but like you said he is family. I can understand it because it's much easier for me to disrespect my parents than friends, especially new ones.
I feel I just repeated what you said, but I really liked the way you explained it. That's always how I saw it, though it was hard to pinpoint exactly why I thought Zuko acted OOC aside from the fact that he had become friends with Sokka and Aang the two episodes before TSR.
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Post by Amira on Aug 21, 2008 21:29:48 GMT -5
See I didn't see it as terribly OOC for Zuko. Look at how he has behaved when dealing with new ideas or suggestions that are opposite of what he has in his mind. He was rude, sarcastic, and disrespectful to Iroh and the other old man (calling them Old Gasbags and behaving like an impatient child) when they first discovered the White Lotus Society in that little town in The Desert. In The Avatar State, he was rude when told something he didn't want to hear. He could hardly contain his disgust at first of working in the tea shop and made sarcastic remarks.
So rudeness and sarcasm at those who have other ideas is nothing new for Zuko. Honestly, I was not surprised he talked to Aang like he did. He often scoffed at his Uncle's peaceful and easy-going nature.
And it only made me dislike Zuko even more, because I thought by that episode he would have grown out of that.
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Post by ZamKenobi on Aug 22, 2008 8:34:18 GMT -5
karma, Suzume!
I know I've tried on several occasions to explain how I saw them as OOC in the episode, and you did an excellent job. And I also agree that the most unbelievable part of the episode was Zuko. For Katara, I sort of understood her behavior since her mother has always been a sensitive area for her. It made her emotional, and so the way she acted was a little more understandable. I thought Zuko's behavior was completely OOC, though, for the reasons you stated. I thought Katara's behavior was a little OOC when I first watched the episode, but I've grown to understand it a little better thinking about what I would do if someone had killed my mom. I thought that they were playing around a little too much with psychology, but I think it makes more sense now. When Zuko betrayed her after she opened up to him it reopened the wound, and when he came to try and make amends, it sort of reopened the reopening and made it worse. See I didn't see it as terribly OOC for Zuko. Look at how he has behaved when dealing with new ideas or suggestions that are opposite of what he has in his mind. He was rude, sarcastic, and disrespectful to Iroh and the other old man (calling them Old Gasbags and behaving like an impatient child) when they first discovered the White Lotus Society in that little town in The Desert. In The Avatar State, he was rude when told something he didn't want to hear. He could hardly contain his disgust at first of working in the tea shop and made sarcastic remarks. So rudeness and sarcasm at those who have other ideas is nothing new for Zuko. Honestly, I was not surprised he talked to Aang like he did. He often scoffed at his Uncle's peaceful and easy-going nature. And it only made me dislike Zuko even more, because I thought by that episode he would have grown out of that. I think there's a difference between being rude and disrespectful in one situation and being disrespectful in another. In Iroh's case, he's family and Zuko can be a spoiled little child. When it's with his friends and in a very important situation, much more important than working in a tea shop, the circumstances are entirely different. These are important issues of whether taking revenge and killing a man is the right thing to do. If it was wrong it might scar Katara for the rest of her life, and if it was right it would be depriving Katara of justice and something that would give her closure. I had gotten the impression that Zuko could tell the difference, even back in Seasons 1 and 2. Now that he's changed, he should have been even more responsible. It's also like you said, I and probably everyone else had thought that he had grown out of this, and it's like his character took two giant steps backward and doing that actually helped Katara (something else I didn't think made any sense). You don't want to be a jerk to someone who has a great possibility of being right, and I thought that Zuko had already learned this lesson. He might be going back to his old ways because he's beginning to feel more comfortable with them, but I still wouldn't think that would be the case considering how guilty he felt about betraying his uncle since I would think the overall disrespect would be part of that package.
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Post by bacwas on Oct 16, 2008 11:24:09 GMT -5
I ship Maiko all the way. I can not for the life of me see anything between Katara and Zuko, except the beginnings of a strong frienship at the end of the series. For me, Aang and Katara were shown as meant to be right from the start. I really like Mai and Zuko together. She rarely if ever smiles unless she's with Zuko. That says a lot to me. He seems happy when he's with her. Zuko definitely feels bad about leaving Mai in Book 3 and Mai is obviously hurt. Azula even mentions that Mai's been in a very good mood lately at the start of Book 3. She doesn't take any crap from Zuko and he prods her to open up more. Mai goes against Azula and everything she's been raised to believe in for Zuko. And they like kissing(and I think a little more than that ). They're very comfortable with ech other physically. I think they're a great match and make a beautiful couple. Their final scene together is very sweet. Both Mai and Zuko look very, very happy. In fact, Mai looks positively radiant. She's smiling again!
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jillrg
Avatar Korra
By Fialleril at LJ
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jillrg on Oct 16, 2008 22:00:35 GMT -5
And they like kissing(and I think a little more than that ). They're very comfortable with ech other physically. ... if you know what I mean ;D I think they're a great match and make a beautiful couple. Their final scene together is very sweet. Both Mai and Zuko look very, very happy. In fact, Mai looks positively radiant. Agreed. She's positively glowing in that scene, and the joy in Zuko's voice when he says "You're okay!" Their incredible happiness together is exactly what love should be, IMHO.
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asian malaysian
Avatar Kyoshi
Let me hear you say this ship is bananas! B-A-NA-N-A-S!
Posts: 1,308
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Post by asian malaysian on Oct 16, 2008 22:27:12 GMT -5
MAIKO! I wish there was a way I could get a hold of the comic! Curse you, Azulodeon!
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zuzu3000
penguin
i am a firelord zuko luvr
Posts: 13
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Post by zuzu3000 on May 7, 2009 5:22:57 GMT -5
maiko, it rocks!!!!!!!!and its canon, so, yeah better....
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Post by Appayipyip the Klingon on May 21, 2009 19:42:32 GMT -5
Oh, Maiko, definitely. I just don't like Zutara. For three reasons: 1. Kataang was from the very first episode (even though the ship was not created then) 2. Mai is better for Zuko. I just think so. 3. Zutara simply seems wrong. I don't know why. I also support: Kataang (my all-time favorite ship, EVER ) Sukka Maiko (wait, I already said that) but...who's for Toph?! I don't know. I'm kind of flexible with the whole Sukka thing, I like both Sukka and Tokka, but...it's just more likely to me that he'll end up with Suki.
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Post by northshore on Feb 21, 2010 13:42:42 GMT -5
I'm with Zutara all the way
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Post by ZutaraSukkaTaang on Jun 13, 2010 4:01:04 GMT -5
-Points at my username- Zutara! I don't have anything against Maiko... I just am not a big Mai fan. She really bored me throughout the series. Though she did have an amazing moment in 'The Boiling Rock', that didn't make me like her enough to ship Maiko.
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