|
Post by paleiko on Oct 7, 2007 4:54:44 GMT -5
I just don't understand why they start all this Aang-redemption-doubts and Katara/Hakoda-stuff in The Awakening in a much to short episode just to ignore it completely during the next 2 episodes. I just can't believe they don't even talk about a firebending teacher or Suki and so on... I mean... They're all like "Yeah travelling!!" and "Yeah dancing and playing in the mud!"... Katara plays Robin Hood and Aang has his "normal kid"-issues. Great. Where are all their "The Awakening"-problems?? It needs nothing more than Roku and Yue appearing in the sky saying "Don't worry!" and so he doesn't anymore?? I just don't like the contrast between 3x01, the Zuko-stuff and the season-1-like behaviour of the gAang. They don't even show Aang being serious oder concerned. Okay, so Appa is sick and Katara lied to be a secret hero! Hooray! So maybe she puts them all in danger and Aang finally fails because of Miss Robin-Hood-complex. Not important. He likes secret heroes. They could've done this MUCH better. There's a lack of continuity in Aang and Katara concerning 3x01 and 3x02/03. And even if they left some traces for Combustion Man or had some "developement" of Aang (-> school) and Katara it's absolutely not the right point of time to do this. Concerning the gAang the writing is disappointing so far. On the other hand the writing for Zuko is great. That's the only part that keeps me satisfied with the show. After the Heaband I thought "Nice and funny episode, well done." But the Painted Lady??? If the next episode wasn't Sokka's master which surely is no filler-episode, I'd be completely disappointed with the whole show. :'(Waiting months for high quality fillers? No, thanks.
|
|
Fizzywig
Teo
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Posts: 445
|
Post by Fizzywig on Oct 7, 2007 5:30:21 GMT -5
I can see your point about a change between 3x01 and 3x02-3 I mean i dont think anyone really likes the fillers. i am hoping that they are ending the fillerness soon, i think that the avatarstaff just wants when they get down to brass tax for it too be as puped up as it possibly can be.
also i cant fault the headband because anythign that forments a student revolt is good by me, i mean the themes of that episode are so against everything NICK normally does (or at least has done since the glory days of old nick with clarissa explains it all and pete and pete) that i have to give the headband major props.
|
|
|
Post by grandmaster192 on Oct 7, 2007 5:39:20 GMT -5
Your post is just a bunch of Zuko fanboy bias. You're saying that the writting is good for Zuko, yet bad for Team Avatar? That is complete bullsh!t.
|
|
|
Post by paleiko on Oct 7, 2007 8:03:33 GMT -5
No bullsh!t. I didn't like the change of Zuko in CoD at all (so no Zuko-fanboy talking), because I really didn't expected that he'd betray Iroh, but what they've made of this is really good. It has far more continuity than what they've done with Aang in S3. The writing for the gAang was excellent for S1 and S2 and 3x01, though they could have slowed down the whole thing a little bit for 3x01. But I admit: The writing for Sokka is still very good, and the Katara/Hakoda-thing was good, too. But as a whole, I'm still not content.
The Headband alone would have been okay because maybe the time at school distracted Aang so his serious side is put aside for a while. But the Painted Lady was really disappointing! They can't switch from a Zuko-like "I have to redeem myself" to "YAY MUD!! Hey Momo, come and catch me!!" just to waste the time on Katara as secret hero. The effect of this episode on the main plot so far is minimal and if they don't make more than a trace for Combustion Man out of this, the episode was more or less wasted. Maybe it will become very important in the future (village/Painted Lady helping them?) but I don't think that it's likely to be more than MPD-Guy telling Combustion Man about Katara.
The thing is that they don't even mention more than "We're travelling, Invasion plan blabla" although there is so much more they have to deal with! If they had at least added a few sentences about a firebending teacher, some healing sessions, Aang having nightmares because of his near-death experiences... Whatever... No healing sessions, no firebending, no Avatar State, no worries... That's just not what they've started this season with.
If they had shown something which has more continuity with 3x01 I would say nothing against the Painted Lady. If Aang had been angry with Katara when he got to know that she's the Painted Lady because she endangers their mission it would be less elusive.
|
|
|
Post by dialee16 on Oct 7, 2007 8:15:44 GMT -5
Again, why would aang bother learning Firebending right now. He thinks he's going to defeat the Firelord on the day of black sun, and he can't use Firebending during the eclipse. He probably doesn't see a reason to learn firebending just yet.
|
|
|
Post by paleiko on Oct 7, 2007 9:27:28 GMT -5
Just a few reasons:
- he might not make it in time - he might train&travel - The eclipse lasts a few minutes, I doubt he can take Ozai down within 8 minutes because they also have to get into the palace first and they'll begin their attack with the beginning of the eclipse... So it's very likely that Ozai will regain his bending during the attack! - he's not a fully realized Avatar without firebending (-> less powerful!) - he might have to face other firebenders afterwards (Azula..?) -> firebending useful
And the first 2 seasons were mainly about "master the 4 elements and defeat Ozai". If they don't have time to find him a teacher (he went to school -> why don't they think of a firebending school?), then why is there enough time for dancing partys and Painted Lady-disguises?
I don't want to say that he has to master 100% of firebending before facing the Firelord, but they so far they haven't even talked about it! They should at least consider that some basic moves might help a lot! If there's a decision saying that he'll try defeating Ozai without firebending, that's okay... But instead of putting some of these important things into the Aang-part of the episodes, they push him aside for Katara Hood!
Before someone claims I'm a Zuko/Aang-fanboy or a Katara-hater: NOT true! I defended Katara's developement during the discussions after 3x01, because I like her a lot. I just don't like what they've done with the Painted Lady.
|
|
|
Post by grandmaster192 on Oct 7, 2007 9:31:32 GMT -5
I apoligize, Paleiko. I misunderstood your post.
|
|
|
Post by paleiko on Oct 7, 2007 9:38:18 GMT -5
That's ok Being misunderstood is quite easy if you're struggling with language-issues all the time! And I admit, The Painted Lady made me an angry jerk to some extent ^^ But that's just because I love the show so much!! As the wise men Sokka and Iroh once said: ...."No offense!" "None taken!"
|
|
|
Post by brilliantlygreen on Oct 7, 2007 18:07:14 GMT -5
This is when the fandom starts to tick me off. I've avoided the 'Painted Lady' episode discussion because of this. I posted an entire rant on the subject of 'filler episodes' on my livevideo page, and I'm going to post it here too.
I’m SO FREAKING TIRED of everyone bashing these AMAZING creators and these AMAZING episodes. You people find reasons to complain over ANYTHING. So what if it is a ‘filler episode’? Technically, NO episodes are filler. They might not be crucial to the main plot, but they sure do contribute to it. This plot would not get anywhere if we didn’t have some sort of character developments and relationship developments. When these characters grow and learn from different circumstances, they become stronger and wiser. Not every episode can be made of AWESOMEFIGHTINGPWNAGE. These kids are traveling, and learning more about this new place. There has to be episodes like the Painted Lady and the Headband (and I’m sure many more to come) that show them going through the fire nation. We need to see their progress as they count down the days to the Day of Black Sun. If we don’t have any episodes that show them doing everyday things as they continue their journey, then there would probably be about 6 episodes this season. To quote Melis, “We're already seeing baby steps to a revolution of the Fire Nation by its own people.”
You people need to STOP ranting and raving just because you don’t think a certain episode is ‘important’ or because your favorite character didn’t show up. These creators are geniuses. How dare you insult them? They have given us so much more than we deserve. And because they feel the need to sidetrack a bit and be creative, they are flamed for it? I can’t believe how many people have insulted this episode. It makes me sick.
Mike and Bryan are amazing, brilliant people who know what they are doing, and guess what? Whatever they want to happen, will happen. That means, if they want Kataang to happen it will. If they want Zutara, then that’s what we’ll get. DEAL WITH IT. We haven’t waited almost 10 months for nothing. Trust the creators, and let them get this season going. It has to start somewhere, but in due time, the action will begin, characters will come back, and we’ll finally see this amazing story come to a solid end. Okay? Okay.
Oh, and one more thing concerning The Headband. You can claim that I'm saying this because I'm a Kataanger, or you can say I'm stretching it, but I don't care. In my opinion, The Headband was written solely for the dance between Katara and Aang. Everything that happened before hand was pure build-up. Their dance was the climax, it was the focus of the episode.
I think this because if M&B plan on letting Katara and Aang get together, then that will become part of the plot. Their developing relationship needs to be recognized, and I think that was the point of the second episode.
|
|
Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
|
Post by Zenjamin on Oct 7, 2007 18:29:30 GMT -5
I have a fair amount to say on this issue. But as I’ve got work to do ill just post a post I made in "the painted lady episode discussion" to make things go quicker.
now. After this post, people started to admit that all those things were pretty important, but that they wanted Zuko development or Aang to talk about his wound and fears of firebending.
But I see the lack of these things as not flaws, far from it. The last thing I want, is too much stuff crammed into one episode. That was my big beef with "the awakening" If you try to fit too much stuff in one episode, it comes out feeling rushed. You just cant make all that they dealt with in the awakening flow within a 20-25 minute period.
There was another argument made for fan Aangst. That the points I made wernt all that important anyways because it was inferred to in previous episodes anyways.
and that gets the center of fan aangst. many of us have tried to fend off the months of AWS by writing fan fics, reading fan fics, reading and analyzing every theory born of seconds of actual official footage, ect… but things that have been expanded and beaten to death within the fandom has not been explored as much on the actual show.
We are expecting too much. We have thought up all these possibilities in our minds and we want it all resolved. NOW.
But we have to be patient. The season is going to go slowly. And they will not try to touch on everything we want in a small time frame. (at least I sure as hell hope not.) Episodes will build on each other. They will focus on one aspect of the show at a time. Just as they always have.
So let’s revaluate the story every week based on what the creators have gives us, guess what is coming next, be patient, and do it all over again next Friday.
EDIT: Brill, although im not quite as ticked off or involved as you, I pretty much agree with you. However the fandom is not meaning to be jerks or disrespectful to the creators. They are just trying to supplement their AWS as quickly as possible with the few episodes available to us, this should go away as the season progresses.
|
|
The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
|
Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 8, 2007 0:33:37 GMT -5
Wow ~ so many interesting things happening in this thread. Although I can see where the idea is coming from, I have to agree with Brill and Zen, Youkai & Tung, and fuego and the Faceless King: we have no right to call this ep 'filler.' fuego, I loved what you had to say here: I usually enjoy filler episodes cause mostly isn't that what our lives are, just filliers until big events come by say like a wedding or graduation... and the Faceless King, you're right ~ ousting Ozai is going to do no good whatsoever if you're still left with a whole nation full of propaganda-believing people. Brill, I loved what you had to say, and felt much the same myself. I saw the way some of the threads were going on Friday and it broke my heart... I stewed about it all night, then posted my thoughts Saturday morning and spent the rest of the day being grouchy about it. I'm sure the post got lost in the bowels of the ep discussion thread, however so, Zenjamin, if you're going to post the text of yours here, then I'm going to, also.
I cannot believe the tone of this thread. We're handed one of the most beautiful shows ever, and all we can do is complain about it? When a certain character is called "annoying," please consider that simply to read that is also annoying. And yes, not every episode focuses solely on the title character: not only would that be boring, but surely we'd realized plenty of shows do that? Even Spongebob isn't all SB all the time. Which brings me to my next point: plot advancement. Avatar is not a cartoon. Some people apparently think our main characters should just march right up to Ozai's doors immediately. That sort of thing only happens in cartoons. When Bugs Bunny wants to go halfway around the world, he just digs a tunnel, and boom, he's there. But that's the way it has to be, since the point of that show is focused only on what happens when he gets there. Avatar is a journey, however, and takes the long view of things, as we should be able to see just from the history given so far. It explores life, and the things that happen along the way. It is very realistic that their journey is taking a maddeningly long time. That's how things tend to happen in the real world. Avatar is a show that's willing to open up and breathe and explore all the little side trips that tend to happen in all of our journeys. It also portrays the horrors of war very well. I don't care if you think they should be focused on getting to the Fire Lord. What would any of you do, turn your back on a starving community that you could help? It's a very realistic dilemma. This show is asking you, what would you do, in a similar situation? Do you turn your back and keep walking and think oh, I'm going to be late for work... or do you stop and help the poor person on the sidewalk who needs someone to give them a hand? I don't know. You tell me. Would you want eveyone turning away from you if you needed help? It was not a filler episode at all, unless you are determined to dismiss all the earth-shattering events that happened in it as not integral to the story line. Hello ~ in case you hadn't noticed, you are watching the storyline. Character development is part of the point. Without it, you wouldn't care about why things happen quite so much. In addition, these animated shows are expensive to produce. Did you really think they would spend millions of dollars to bring you something you didn't need to see? Mike and Bryan are fans of Miyazaki's work, among others. If you haven't already, go watch some of his films. Every single thing that happens in them is integral to the storyline. And if you can't figure out why, which is certainly the case many times with me, it is your responsibility to sit down and think it over until you get it, or wait and grow a little and watch it again until it dawns on you. Avatar is not a cartoon ~ you have to bring a little brain-power to it, just as you do to any complicated art form. And finally, speaking of what you bring to the show... sure, we all have our expectations and desires of what we want to see in the show ~ lord knows I do. But when the opening sequence starts, I set those aside and prepare myself to enjoy whatever is put in front of me, rather than let it be ruined by comparing it to what I wanted to see. If you don't see what you want, then go out there and do something proactive about making your own storyline happen elsewhere, rather than sit on your duff complaining about it. The same is true of anything in life ~ either you decide to be satisified with what you've got... or you go out and do something useful about it. Got to let everyone see their favourite shine I'm still hoping they let my favourite shine...he's pretty dark right now...but... the darker the shadow...the brighter the light that casts it...(emphasis mine)
|
|
|
Post by brilliantlygreen on Oct 8, 2007 4:47:02 GMT -5
But when the opening sequence starts, I set those aside and prepare myself to enjoy whatever is put in front of me, rather than let it be ruined by comparing it to what I wanted to see. I love what you said there. The only reason why people are so disappointed this season is because they've had over 9 months to create in their own mind what they want to happen. But people need to stop making up their own storylines and need to accept what Mike and Bryan are doing here. When the show first started, in the very first season, we all sat down and watched, enjoyed, and loved it. That's why we got hooked. We didn't have time OR enough background info on the show to create our own ideas just yet, so our only choice was just to enjoy what they were giving us - and we did enjoy what they were giving us. That is why most of us are on the boards today. We need to keep this frame of mind as we watch new episodes, and be ready to accept anything that happens.
|
|
|
Post by mike1921 on Oct 8, 2007 5:14:22 GMT -5
Well I can't say I'll accept anything that happens. If Aang grows wings on his forehead and it's not a hallucignation or dream I'll be ticked. If Sokka beats Momo with his boomerang I'll be ticked. If Katara beats the crap outta anyone in the gaang until they are severely injured I'll be ticked. If Aang is more perverted on the show then he is in my little skit-thingies(is that even physically possible,*starts mental dialogue with himself about whether that's possible and figure out there is one level higher so yea it's physically possible) I'll be ticked. But anything that would logically happen in avatar I'll accept
|
|
|
Post by paleiko on Oct 8, 2007 6:38:08 GMT -5
I don't know how much of these posts are relating to things I said.... But:
I'm not into fanfics or something like that. I didn't spend months on speculating. I'm just disappointed about the strong diffrences between 3x01 and 3x02/03. The Headband was a great episode, but you can't deny that it is hard to believe that Aang overcomes his struggles within the first episode of the season just because Yue says "You can't give up!"
I never said I want them to show everything that was discussed in these forums. But there isn't even a tiny bit left of Aang and his doubts. And there would have been nothing wrong about combining his doubts with the important things they showed in 3x02 and 3x03. Actually it would have been fitting well. The suffering village and the kids (who can't be "normal" kids as Aang would like to be too) would have been perfect to have Aang think about that he's fighting for the FN too. It's also questionable if they really helped them or if they'd have the same problems as before as soon as the gAang is gone. Will the pupils dare doing forbidden things without Kuzon? Will the Army attack the village? There are so much OBVIOUS possibilities to use the things they've setup up in 3x01... But they didn't use them! I'm not making up my own storylines, I'm just questioning they way they're dealing with Aang!!
I'm not bashing the writers. I'm not demanding particular scenes or whatever. I'm just disappointed that they're kind of inconsistent with Aang.
Being critical is NOT the same as arrogant selfish fandom. Actually, I like the idea of the Painted Lady, because I'm a fan of Miyazaki, just as Brian&Mike. But you can't deny that the 3x01-Aang is far to different from the Aang we've got now.
|
|
The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
|
Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 8, 2007 7:27:15 GMT -5
Where is it, paleiko... ah, here it is: I apoligize, Paleiko. I misunderstood your post. ;D Useful little phrase, that. (Though I was mainly replying to the handful of original posters.) You are, of course, right, and I don't appreciate that change in Aang, either. Almost none of 3.01 did I appreciate, simply 'cause it moved too fast to allow me to. I was nearly dizzy by the end, but I believe the creative team was forced into cramming that much exposition into such a small space. I can only hope that's true. Still, even it's cranked 75 rpm speed was better than many many other things I have wasted my time watching on TV. @ Mike... I'm not sure that was the point. @ Brill: well, you are brilliant. I like the idea of following Zenjamin's advice: "So let’s revaluate the story every week based on what the creators have given us, guess what is coming next, be patient, and do it all over again next Friday."
|
|