yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2008 3:54:41 GMT -5
Well that seems like it would be after Ozai's fall if that happened...and thus after the show. And we know that the end is THE END, so I think it's going to come down to a quick and physical confrontation.
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Mar 3, 2008 8:43:42 GMT -5
Sure Aang is going to do a one-on-one fight with Ozai in the end...but I don't see him striking an open, killing blow. Nick just would not allow it. You referenced Jet's death, and yet they were not even allowed to show A) Long Feng actually hitting him or B) that he actually died. The writers had to TELL us that Jet is dead. That's not the kind of end I want to see to this show...where they have to tell us he's dead. The pure and simple of it is that Nick does not allow images of someone seriously killing another person. They can't even really SAY that it happened. Which is why even having Azula kill Ozai or vice versa can't happen. If they die, it'll have to be a kind of glorious shabang much like Cumbustion Man's death Hence why I support the idea that Aang destroys the comet and the backlash nukes Ozai. As long as it's not a bloody death, Nick wouldn't have any problem with how he dies. I think it would be anti-climatic if he died any other way than by Aang's hand. We will have to wait and see what happens there. Kind of like how Goku killed Freeza from the DBZ series. It wasn't a bloody death and Goku felt pity for his enemy even after all the things he done. That's how I want Ozai to die.
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Post by Koikitten on Mar 3, 2008 9:09:21 GMT -5
I can see Aang going into the Avatar State, bringing all four elements at once toward Ozai, the camera angle changing to Ozai's back, which is now in sillhouette against the four sets of elements, and the split-second they're about to destroy Ozai, the camera fades to white.
Then, the story continues. Ozai is dead, without any doubt.
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Post by fireprincessgiorgi on Mar 3, 2008 17:22:13 GMT -5
Like, the camera on Aang from the bottom while he looks down at the smoking/waterlogged/windswept/stoned corpse?
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Escalus (Syn)
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Post by Escalus (Syn) on Mar 3, 2008 22:56:25 GMT -5
I just hope that they dont wait to kill Ozai till the bitter end. It would be sad to have him die 5 minutes before the end of the last show, and we have some cruddy "The world is changing" goodbye montage and that it.
It would not give credit to the characters....... we should at least get to see what happens for the future. Maybe a flash forward for a few seconds, just enough to learn something thought-provoking.
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yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2008 23:22:40 GMT -5
Sure Aang is going to do a one-on-one fight with Ozai in the end...but I don't see him striking an open, killing blow. Nick just would not allow it. You referenced Jet's death, and yet they were not even allowed to show A) Long Feng actually hitting him or B) that he actually died. The writers had to TELL us that Jet is dead. That's not the kind of end I want to see to this show...where they have to tell us he's dead. The pure and simple of it is that Nick does not allow images of someone seriously killing another person. They can't even really SAY that it happened. Which is why even having Azula kill Ozai or vice versa can't happen. If they die, it'll have to be a kind of glorious shabang much like Cumbustion Man's death Hence why I support the idea that Aang destroys the comet and the backlash nukes Ozai. As long as it's not a bloody death, Nick wouldn't have any problem with how he dies. I think it would be anti-climatic if he died any other way than by Aang's hand. We will have to wait and see what happens there. Kind of like how Goku killed Freeza from the DBZ series. It wasn't a bloody death and Goku felt pity for his enemy even after all the things he done. That's how I want Ozai to die. Oh yes they would have a problem with it. Again...they BARELY got away with Jet's death. We did not even see him get hit, nor did we actually see or HEAR that he died in the show. That was the most the writers could do. Showing Aang directly kill Ozai on screen is pretty much out of the question. DBZ? That was on cartoon network. They allow more room than Nick. Let's look at all the deaths on Avatar... Zhao was pulled under water. Never even actually said he died. Yue just vanished. Again, not once did anyone say she died. Jet...already covered. Nick doesn't even allow them to SAY someone died. They won't let us see it. On screen death is too much for them. I'm not saying they're right, so don't shoot the messenger...it's just the way things are.
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melloyello
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Post by melloyello on Mar 3, 2008 23:28:23 GMT -5
@ Yiceman: I see where you're coming from with the comet theory, and it makes sense. It's unfortunate that the rules couldn't be bent for a death done in a meaningful, respectful way, which could teach kids more about the value of life than a cool looking, deadly explosion would.
That being said, I would rather see Azula killed by the comet than Ozai, mostly because I doubt Azula would ever give up her quest for power, even if she's imprisioned. I think Ozai's got a better sense of when to call it quits than his daughter does. Ozai may be merciless and cruel, but Azula seems almost imbalanced. I could see her getting consumed by the comet in her desire for power.
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yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 3, 2008 23:36:14 GMT -5
Well I don't know what kind of learning experience showing a 12-year-old kill someone would be, but it would make for a more serious story.
As for Ozai...I think he's just as bad as Azula is. The comet was his idea in the first place after all. Plus, Ozai was the man who destroyed his own family for power.
He stole the throne from his brother and allowed his wife to murder his father before going into exile in order to be Fire Lord.
And he burned and banished his own son just to maintain his illusion of strength. He's done worse for the sake of power, imo.
Azula's done bad things...well, just because she enjoys them it seems.
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Mar 3, 2008 23:59:31 GMT -5
As long as it's not a bloody death, Nick wouldn't have any problem with how he dies. I think it would be anti-climatic if he died any other way than by Aang's hand. We will have to wait and see what happens there. Kind of like how Goku killed Freeza from the DBZ series. It wasn't a bloody death and Goku felt pity for his enemy even after all the things he done. That's how I want Ozai to die. Oh yes they would have a problem with it. Again...they BARELY got away with Jet's death. We did not even see him get hit, nor did we actually see or HEAR that he died in the show. That was the most the writers could do. Showing Aang directly kill Ozai on screen is pretty much out of the question. DBZ? That was on cartoon network. They allow more room than Nick. Let's look at all the deaths on Avatar... Zhao was pulled under water. Never even actually said he died. Yue just vanished. Again, not once did anyone say she died. Jet...already covered. Nick doesn't even allow them to SAY someone died. They won't let us see it. On screen death is too much for them. I'm not saying they're right, so don't shoot the messenger...it's just the way things are. Not necessarily true, during Yue's death scene both Iroh and Sokka made references that she would die if she gave her life energy to the moon spirit. When she did die, Sokka stated that she was gone. I agree with you on Jet and Zhao's deaths. (Of course Zhao's death was a little more believable, but there was little room to believe he could have survived.) As for what Nick will allow, it's difficult to say what they will and won't let air. Of course, we all know they won't allow any long, drawn out bloody scene. However, some of the situations they talk about in the show is way beyond the understanding of a young mind. If you ask me, when Zhao taunted Aang about the death of his people in "The Blue Spirit" was far worser than any death scene I've seen in alot of anime out there. (..and I'm almost 100% sure that Ozai will taunt Aang about it during their fight.) All I'm saying is it wouldn't be hard a concept of Aang killing Ozai in a flash of bending prowess for little kids to swallow. PS: Aang maybe 12 yrs. old, but that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
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yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 4, 2008 15:16:22 GMT -5
Nick doesn't care about the grand scheme of things. They care about ticked off soccor moms filing complaints.
Look I'm right there with you...I would like to see Aang completely beat Ozai.
But Nick just WILL NOT allow a direct image of one person killing another on screen in their cartoon shows. It doesn't matter about blood, gore, or length. Just the simple fact that they had an on screen homicide is too much for them. Cartoon Network allows it, but Nick seems more prudish than them.
I fear you're mistaken about Yue...neither Sokka nor Iroh said she would die. Sokka did say she's "gone" and that's my point...they weren't allowed to say "dead" in reference to something that just happened. They seem to be allowed to say "dead" when talking about things long in the past or hypothetical future, but not in relation to present facts.
As for the Blue Spirit, all Zhao said was:
Zhao: Uhh, no. Tell me, how does it feel to be the only airbender left? (ASN transcripts)
My point is, if such an ambiguous and unclear death scene is the most we could get, I would rather Ozai and Azula had Zhao-like deaths as opposted to Jet-like.
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melloyello
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Post by melloyello on Mar 5, 2008 0:09:28 GMT -5
I realize I haven't been clear about this. The reason I would like to see a more serious death scene, as opposed to a more ambigous explosion or cataclysm is because the former more clearly shows the consequences of Aang's actions.
If Aang dresses for battle with the intent of defeating the fire lord, then he is deliberately creating a confrontational situation that will likely turn violent. In life, people also do this, perhaps by bringing a weapon to school, or by making arrangements to meet in a place designated for fights. Just as Aang hasn't really discussed what defeating the Fire Lord is going to mean (Ozai may choose to fight to the death), people also don't think about the consequences of thier actions.
I feel this is reinforced by children's media, by allowing children to be potrayed in adult situations (like Aang's), but at the same time sheltering children from adult consequences. Deaths by explosion are often not directly attributable to the main character, therefore there is little guilt to deal with afterward. Explosions also look cool, and, of course there is no body afterwards, and no indication the villan suffered before he died. This allows children to look at death somewhat cavalierly, after all, it is essentially orchestrated to have as little impact as possible, so that children aren't upset by what they saw.
A serious death, while not unecessarily violent or bloody, when done respectfully, can emphasize the value of life, and the ultimate cost of violence, even when it is for the overall good. If kids are willing to watch three seasons of a show that has dealt with so many adult topics (terrorism, genocide, ect.) then they should be able to handle one death scene.
Of course, I now realize this isn't possible. I merely wanted to explain why I think a death scene would be age appropriate.
Regarding Azula, I agree with what you are saying on an intellectual level, and I would also add that as the main villian, if anyone is going to be dramatically destroyed by the comet, it should be him. However, I have this lingering gut feeling that she is the more dangerous of the two antagonists (primarily because she seems to enjoy hurting people), and, of the two, I would rather see her die than Ozai. Of course, I would rather not have Zuko physically kill his sister, that would just be too much, IMO.
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yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 5, 2008 1:02:27 GMT -5
I see what you mean about the death scene, but that is a pretty revolutionary concept, really. And Nick is not the place to look for cutting edge, ground-breaking drama ;p
Now...I would say Azula is more evil than Ozai. But Ozai is more dangerous. Why? He's the one leading the armies right now. He's the one that'll activate the comet.
As for Azula's death... I could see it happening, but ALSO...why keep her alive? Because it would tick her off more to be beaten by a (seemingly) weaker foe and then left alive by his mercy than die a warrior's death. Seems like poetic justice.
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Mar 5, 2008 1:41:17 GMT -5
Now...I would say Azula is more evil than Ozai. But Ozai is more dangerous. Why? He's the one leading the armies right now. He's the one that'll activate the comet. I don't think Ozai can activate the comet. I always assumed that the comet being so close to the Earth, would boost every firebender's abilities to bend. Back to the death topic............. You remember when Zhao tried to kill Zuko in the SoTN episodes. They basically showed Zuko being assassinated. When Zuko revealed himself to being alive, he furiously yelled at Zhao about trying to kill him. Going on all of that, a death scene involving Ozai being killed by Aang's power wouldn't be out of the question. However, you might be right about all this. It wouldn't be the first time this show sorely disappointed me.
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yiceman
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Post by yiceman on Mar 5, 2008 1:46:39 GMT -5
The comet comes every 100 years, right?
Yet it was only first used by Sozin 100 years ago. It's CALLED Sozin's comet...as in it came from him.
If anyone could use it, it would have been common knowledge before then, right? Sozin had to do something to activate it.
As for Zuko's near death...it was all ALMOST and hypothetical. That's why they got away with it, imo. Never has a major character who has died ever been said to have "died" in the show. Not Yue, not Zhao, not Jet.
And don't be disappointed in the show...it's not their fault. Blame the censors.
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Silent_E
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Post by Silent_E on Mar 5, 2008 1:55:36 GMT -5
The comet comes every 100 years, right? Yet it was only first used by Sozin 100 years ago. It's CALLED Sozin's comet...as in it came from him. If anyone could use it, it would have been common knowledge before then, right? Sozin had to do something to activate it. Well I don't know the full history of the comet, but I seriously doubt Sozin activated it by himself. If he did, that would mean he have personally went out and used it's power to kill all the airbenders. Something else may have triggered the comet and it's ability to increase a firebender's power. (Also, I doubt the people of the Fire Nation know the comet is coming again or at least none of them made reference to it returning.) Maybe the creators (or whoever decides what network to put their show on) should have choosen to put their show on a network where they had more freedom.
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