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Post by wildimagination on Oct 7, 2007 14:48:59 GMT -5
I thought it was okay. I totally didn't expect Katara to be the Painted Lady. I expected it to be Suki, or Ursa, or someone totally new. I thought Katara's line "I will never, ever turn my back....." was a bit anticlimatic. The SDCC trailer made it seem like she said that for a more dramtic reason. btw, did anyone notice Aang basically told Katara she was attractibve? SHE KNOWS! ^^;; *shot* XD
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Oct 7, 2007 14:52:56 GMT -5
Ok. All those who keep calling this episode a filler, really havent thought it through. In fact, an episode like this NEEDED to happen.
1) It showed that the war had a great negative effect on the normal citizens of the fire nation. Starving to death, their medicine and food being stolen by the "military industrial complex"; it shows that the people of the fire nation are not only not evil, but victims as well. This is needed because if Aang is going to bring balance to the nations again, he needs the support and approval of the people of the fire nation.
2) This episode set up sokka's master. After the "i will never turn my back on people who need me" quote, Sokka showed his loyalty to the gAang. He said how Katara "needed" him. However, Sokka’s only way to contribute in the painted lady facade was to make spooky noises on a flute. Mark me; this will be mentioned next week.
3) More Kataang. Even in the guise of the painted lady, Aang was drawn and attracted to Katara. He never would have been so open and relaxed with his feelings towards her had he known who she was. As short as it was, I believe this progressed the relationship quite abit.
4) A trail has been left for combustion man to follow. With all the non-fire bending, the attack on the military, and Sokka yelling about their schedule to "take out the fire lord", it is inevitable that the combustion man will use this town to track down the gAang. Another thing that NEEDED to happen and that you can mark me on.
5) It highlighted one of many problems that the fire nation has. Yet Sokka was the one who was able to see to the source of the problem and point out how the only way to help towns like this permanently is to take out the fire lord and end the war. Sokka’s the man with the plan. The one who can distance himself, and see the big picture. Katara is the compassionate one who lives in the moment. And Aang provides the balance. (abit tainted for his love for Katara though.)however, I do wish they would give Toph a bigger role
6) cant remember.
this was a quite good and important episode.
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I think some of you are defining a "filler" as an episode whose events do not directly contribute the the climax of the season. Discounting character/relationship development, and plot setups.
Please remember that if you discount those things, that would be most all of season1, and you have probably been spoiled by the second half of season2.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 7, 2007 15:01:25 GMT -5
Mike and Bryan must really hate the government considering how evil EVERY government in Avatar is. ^ Hmm, that's kind of a blanket statement. Bumi and Hakoda were presumably beneficial rulers, but perhaps the point to be taken here is how easily those governing can overstep the bounds, whether they mean to or not. Kyoshi taking things into her own hands with both Chin and the Dai Li, though she meant well, is a good example of this. Hey, Zenjamin, nice post. Good points.
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Post by Karatelover on Oct 7, 2007 15:23:42 GMT -5
I just watched it! I like it! And I didn't know that Sokka played the flute either! That old guy got on my nerves though.
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Post by mahatista on Oct 7, 2007 15:25:00 GMT -5
Okay, I guess it wasn't technically "filler" but rather "fillerish." The points Benjamin made are good, but there is little evidence that they will use any of this potential setup. Just because it fits nicely and seems obvious to fans doesn't really mean it will ever mean anything later.
I still think there's good reason to be disappointed and frustrated on the part of fans who have followed the story from the beginning. There were elements that could have been tied in and they weren't. There were opportunities for depth but they were avoided. That's why the reaction is that it was filler.
Unfortunately, with the layoff and the constant rerunning of old epis the fans are very well aware of every second leading up to season 3 and we are only too aware of all the little tidbits that have made it such a rich tapestry so far and we hate to see them ditched.
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Post by Karatelover on Oct 7, 2007 15:28:11 GMT -5
I want more interaction between Azula's gang, Zuko and the Gaang!
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Post by paleiko on Oct 7, 2007 15:41:31 GMT -5
Well, of course the episode had some good (non-fillerish) points which are important to the plot. The same is true for The Headband. But we knew the characterizations which were made in this episode before. And why are they leaving almost everything they've set up during The Awakening behind? Aang seems to be just a healthy (!), happy kid. He had reoccuring nightmares during the first two seasons because he couldn't deal with the Avatar State and all the pressure. And now? Nothing. Doubts? Redemption? Firebending? Healing sessions? HELLO? What? Oh right. They can ignore that for now. They don't even need to mention it. Showing a suffering FN village and Katara saving the day (again...) is much more important.
I don't know how to express it in english properly... It's just.... Not fitting. Concerning Aang they didn't develope anything! He just switched from "little Zuko" to "Tadaa - normal kid!"
They could have put in some short scenes where Aang says something about his wounds hurting or whatever.... Maybe it doesn't deserve being called a filler. But concerning continuity it's just bad writing. Something I would have appreciated would be an ending of the Painted Lady where Aang is sad. Saying something about that he realised he has to fight for the people of the FN too. That the pressure he feels is even higher now.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 7, 2007 15:44:39 GMT -5
Perhaps some of the more subtle threads of storyline get dropped accidentally, since different writing teams are at work on different episodes. There might have been more continuity (though possibly less productivity) if a single team had done all the writing and maintained all the same priorities. Stiil, as it is, I like it just fine.
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Firework
Avatar Aang
Free like a butterfly instead of a flying boar... butterflies are prettier anyway.
Posts: 1,172
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Post by Firework on Oct 7, 2007 16:35:57 GMT -5
Mike and Bryan must really hate the government considering how evil EVERY government in Avatar is. ^ Hmm, that's kind of a blanket statement. Bumi and Hakoda were presumably beneficial rulers, but perhaps the point to be taken here is how easily those governing can overstep the bounds, whether they mean to or not. Kyoshi taking things into her own hands with both Chin and the Dai Li, though she meant well, is a good example of this. Hey, Zenjamin, nice post. Good points. Good point, but Bumi is Aang's best friend and Hakoda is Sokka and Katara's dad, therefore they aren't "evil" rulers since they are friends and family of the heroes.
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Post by mahatista on Oct 7, 2007 16:40:09 GMT -5
Perhaps some of the more subtle threads of storyline get dropped accidentally, since different writing teams are at work on different episodes. There might have been more continuity (though possibly less productivity) if a single team had done all the writing and maintained all the same priorities. That's what the writers room is for. And the head writer. These things are plotted out and discussed. For whatever reason they've decided to ignore a lot of what they built in the first two seasons. Maybe it will all come in one info tsunami after the Black Sun but I don't think people will be happy with that either. The complaints should be expected. Fans have waited a long time and expectations have been raised. But I, as one of the complainers, feel justified. I still have hopes this season will pull it out, but it's two for one sub-par right now.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 7, 2007 17:49:32 GMT -5
^ maha, I agree ~ I had high expectations over the spring and summer, too. But they dropped to nil by September, and I barely got my interest back up in time for the premiere. This was of course no fault of the show's, only human nature. And I do have many complaints about the new season... but I have decided I would rather enjoy whatever the show's got to present than be upset. I want to see all storylines gathered, too. But that seems to happen rarely, in any medium.
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Post by mahatista on Oct 7, 2007 20:33:47 GMT -5
^ And I do have many complaints about the new season... but I have decided I would rather enjoy whatever the show's got to present than be upset. I want to see all storylines gathered, too. But that seems to happen rarely, in any medium. You have a good, positive attitude. I hope it will rub off on me. I agree with you that the storylines don't get gathered well in most mediums. How many sequels (and that's what separate seasons amount to) have I looked forward to only to be crushingly disappointed? The Matrix sequel nearly made me physically ill it was so pathetically worse than the first one. So yes, the humans at the controls often actually give themselves brilliance and shrug it off for something else they think is better. Problem is, it often is not. Right now I'm in the process of trying to forget all those other threads and great setups they created in case they never come back. I rarely visit the theory board anymore because they seem a waste at this point. All those things that seemed like they were going to come back and mean something just didn't (and don't look like they will). I wonder what it is about stories in the entertainment industry that make them fall apart in the final portion of the arc? LotR is about the only thing that hasn't done that, IMO. I'm sure I'll think of something else that succeeded, but I just can't do it right now. *karma* to you Blue Chibi for your honest but also positive attitude.
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Post by Akira Takahashi on Oct 7, 2007 21:13:42 GMT -5
I was very pleased that Toph actually had a something of a role in this episode. I really enjoy fillers and just watching the characters be themselves, but this one wasn't one of the strongest fillers.
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Post by misstrisha on Oct 7, 2007 21:45:07 GMT -5
As far as a filler goes, I think it was great for development in the Katara and to a certain extent, Sokka sense. The fact that Katara was helping the people of a country who's war took the most important part of her life away (her mother) says something strong about her. She still feels the pain of loss, but she won't let that pain stifle her compassion for people. I thought it was interesting and beneficial for Sokka as well, since he really is showing what a strong leader of the group he has become. There isn't much tricking him anymore, as he catches on to things quickly and obviously has a tremendous talent for observation. (The theory on the town needing to help themselves, discovering what Katara was doing).
Although it wasn't what I or the fans have really hoped for in episodes (we are waiting for the big, plot moving epicness that will come shortly), I still think it was strides away from the disjointed mess of The Awakening.
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The Blue Chibi
Cabbage Merchant
you cannot push the river... nor can you hold it back
Posts: 4,130
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Post by The Blue Chibi on Oct 7, 2007 22:07:21 GMT -5
maha, that was sweet of you, and I'm going to have to wait about... 1 hour, 23 minutes to return the favor. My guess on why storylines fall apart in some cases? And no, I don't think this applies to Avatar at all... sometimes, the artists just get full of themselves. They get a little taste of fame, and it just goes to their heads and blocks any of the original energy or creativity that was there to begin with. This along with an increase in pay changes who they are as a person, and the stories that were once important to them become too far removed and are unavailable to draw on. Their priorities have changed, and they no longer seem to remember the essential, stripped-down parts of life that were so important to them as a starvin' artist. The Avatar staff were professionals in the field before working on this show. Any perceived change in quality I suspect is due to other politics that are likely out of their hands. But what do I know? Tolkien, I believe, did not experience this problem so much during the publication of LotR for several reasons, most of them having to do with him maintaining his sense of objectivity. He had four children to feed on an Oxbridge professor's wages (had you heard the story about him receiving a prize cheque in the mail over breakfast, and immediately handing it across the table to his wife to pay the doctor's bills?), and his colleagues never let him forget that they considered his life's work a joke. Plus, he was not only writing for an eleven-year-old editor, but he had conceived the whole project as a story for his kids in the first place. Nothing to get a big head about when they're all still there every day, reminding you that you're just dear old dad to them, and that's a relationship with such deep foundations that it doesn't change easily no matter what the circumstances. His later work, though, was different. And his friend, CS Lewis... I'm not sure what held him together strongly through to his brilliant Narnian series' end. Force of conviction? Can you tell that things "falling apart in the final portion of the arc" is something I've been obsessed with for the past few years? My current conclusion is the only things that end well are those that don't end. I mean, when does anything ever really end? It only appears that way from certain perspectives, no? So, I believe Avatar will end as well as a Miyazaki film does, which is to say we'll still be debating about it for years to come, but it will be brilliant, artistic, and it will make a strong statement. I only wish they had more time and space to make it breathe.
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