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Post by bongalak on Apr 17, 2008 0:49:13 GMT -5
I thought M&B said that it was at least partially genetics? Like your genetics determine what kind of element you would be bend, and your spirituality would determine whether you'd be able to bend at all or not?
It has to be in part genetic, because if bending depended solely on spirituality, then the type of element one could bend would have to correspond to one's spiritual and personality characteristics, which means you could have firebending babies popping up in North Pole and Iroh would have been born an airbender... -pictures Iroh with arrow tattoos-
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 17, 2008 2:44:12 GMT -5
Nope, that is a common misconception, or rather a poor word choice. spirituality =/= personality in this context. Here is how it is. the ability to bend, is like a spiritual organ or muscle. when a person dies their soul is sent to the spirit world (but not as a tangible spirit like Koh or Hai-Bi) to await their 40 day waiting period for reincarnation. during that time, the spirits decide what the destiny of the soul will be, and to which body it will be born into. the spirits also decide if said soul is worthy to have a bending element attached to it. however, no soul is strong enough to hold more then one "element" except for the avatar spirit, which is different from a single element ability. the purpose of the avatar spirit is to use its host (soul) to keep balance in the world. In other words... Its magic. so when I talk of spirituality, im speaking more towards destiny, and the Karma of your past life. seems a good mix of personality and where you were born to me, if the spirits detirmine you to be a waterbender, for unknown reasons, they will place your unaltered soul, with a bending gene/element attached to it, into the body of someone born in one of the poles.
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Post by bongalak on Apr 22, 2008 20:51:57 GMT -5
Meh, I'll take your word for it ^^
But I'm still pretty sure M&B said in an interview that bending is determined by both genetics and spirituality. But I'm too lazy to go look for it... meh
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Post by ~*Tea Sage*~ on Apr 26, 2008 18:23:47 GMT -5
Not genetics......it can't be genetics...maybe spiritual...but not not genetics...i think thats the flaw with bryan and mike's avatar concept, if the first benders learned it from their animal counterpart, then its implying that bending is a skill, an art, a martial art to be exact....and like someone mention the two twins during the fortuneteller.
The only reason why Sokka can't bend is because he refused too...he felt the skill is impractical and illogical. And we saw in Book two an Earthbending school, which further support that bending is learned skill.
So what cause people to bend a specific element, like Artefacto mentioned, it deals heavily on the environment, the culture, and the avalaiblity of a master in a location.
I feel however what restricts a person to maybe bend one element is the individual is spiritually attuned with a specific element due to the combination of conditions mention above. So while he maybe able to learn another element it could much harder for him that he is not spiritually attuned to it, like Guru Patik said, we are all connected, but we live as though we are seperated.
And this is what makes the avatar so special, his soul is a incarnation of all of his past lives, so he's spiritually attuned with everything, so its easier to learn all four element, and much quicker than most people.
At best the average person can maniulate their element to behave like other elements, by learning martial arts associated with other elements...or they could use their elements to maniulate other elements...
Earthbender can mix sand or dirt with water, and bend mud, which holds liquid properties (Think the Katara and Toph fight). Airbender can manipulate the clouds and create rain or water bendings....(think Aaang during the fortuneteller.)
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Post by teabendingmaster on Apr 27, 2008 18:23:25 GMT -5
Meh, I'll take your word for it ^^ But I'm still pretty sure M&B said in an interview that bending is determined by both genetics and spirituality. But I'm too lazy to go look for it... meh In wikipedia, i read something like that too( genetics + spirituality). If this is the case, i think it would be possible to bend two elements. Imagine a child born from a waterbender and an earth bender, and being raised with the traditions of both WT and EK. Then he might be able to both earthbend and waterbend, even if it is very weak.
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Zenjamin
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 27, 2008 19:46:07 GMT -5
Nope, that wont happen. M&B intended the avatar to be the only one to bend more then one element.
its just one of those things that seems to be a condition of their story.
which is why I like my theory of spirits attaching bending elements(or genes) onto souls, and sending them to their respective nations. "the four nations are meant to be just that, four"
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Jun 24, 2008 10:43:13 GMT -5
40 day waiting period for reincarnation Woah! Where did you get that juicy tidbit? But the moment the last Avatar died the camera went instantly to Aang getting born, if there was a waiting period wouldn't there have been some kind of transition between the death and birth? Maybe a big misty cloud with a wooshing sound Anyways my thoughts on why each nation only can bend a certain way, is because each nation's inhabitants' chakras are all closed/open in a way to make them only able to bend in one form, which would be why some people can't bend, their chakras are all closed, which would be why all air nomads were air benders because they are so free and loose their chakras would naturally be open, at least their air chakras
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 24, 2008 13:56:53 GMT -5
. And we saw in Book two an Earthbending school, which further support that bending is learned skill. I don't think this proves that bending is a learned skill. I think the bending school we saw wasn't for non-benders to be turned into benders, but for benders to learn to do it better. It's just like any sport, you have to practice to get better. I can't remember the interview the Bryke told us that it was a combination of genetics and bending, but I distinctly remember reading it. Even though this doesn't make any sense and it's clear the Bryke have no idea how some characters are benders and others aren't... we have to take it into consideration. In my mind, the genetics half of this has separate genes for nonbending and bending of all four elements. That way, even if you are not a bender, you still carry an element's affiliation and can pass it down to your children one day. So the genotypes would be: F (dominant firebender), f (recessive firebender), W (dominant waterbender), w (recessive waterbender), A (dominant airbender), a (recessive airbender), E (dominant earthbender), and e (recessive earthbender). So, if a kid's genotype for bending was ee, even if he was more spiritually connected to the water element, they couldn't just go off and become a waterbender willy-nilly, because of the genetics link. (Guru Pathik could be an example of this. He seems to be very well-connected with the air element, but yet is not a bender) Now, if they had two different alleles... for instance, if the genotype was we, then they could be either a water or an earth bender, depending on how spiritually connected they were to either element. I am really strongly against the idea of anyone but the Avatar being dual-benders, so I think if they were spiritually connected to both elements, they would be a non-bender. I have absolutely no idea how the Avatar would equate into this. I'm assuming the reincarnation would have something to do with it. >.< Of course, I just made all of this up, so nobody accept this as fact.
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Jun 24, 2008 14:19:00 GMT -5
. And we saw in Book two an Earthbending school, which further support that bending is learned skill. I don't think this proves that bending is a learned skill. I think the bending school we saw wasn't for non-benders to be turned into benders, but for benders to learn to do it better. It's just like any sport, you have to practice to get better. Like Katara who knew how to bend without a teacher, she just needed a teacher so she could learn how to bend well
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 26, 2008 18:03:33 GMT -5
^Yep, that's true, too.
If bending could be learned in the first place, I'd expect they'd have a lot less non-benders...
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Jun 26, 2008 19:32:40 GMT -5
^Yep, that's true, too. If bending could be learned in the first place, I'd expect they'd have a lot less non-benders... Although, bending wasn't naturally a human skill, it was learned from other places, maybe it was always a possibility for humans to bend, they just learned how from the dragons, moon, flying bison, and badger-moles
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Post by hailstorm on Jun 30, 2008 16:24:17 GMT -5
^Then there has to be some way for the bending to be passed down other than teaching.
Why is it that there are people who can't learn it now? I'm thinking that people were always benders, it's just that they did not realize their potential until watching the "original teachers" do it, and thus did they form their own techniques and moves.
Still...I think bending is both a mixture of spirituality and genetics, maybe 70:30 respectively. Genetics determine a part your temperament (or basic personality) which is if you are able to develop your bending (how Zuko couldn't produce proper fire balls because he lost a reason or will, a part of his personality) while spirituality is if you "know" how to bend naturally, and if you were gifted with it from birth. Otherwise, we can't explain why some people bend and others don't =P
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Post by bagpipe turtle on Jun 30, 2008 16:54:01 GMT -5
Still...I think bending is both a mixture of spirituality and genetics, maybe 70:30 respectively. Genetics determine a part your temperament (or basic personality) which is if you are able to develop your bending (how Zuko couldn't produce proper fire balls because he lost a reason or will, a part of his personality) while spirituality is if you "know" how to bend naturally, and if you were gifted with it from birth. Otherwise, we can't explain why some people bend and others don't =P Our theories are similar, but slightly different. I'd think the genetics/spirituality thing is about 50:50. For example: If a person was born to a father that was EE and a mother that was ee, their genotype would be Ee. They have one recessive ( e) and one dominant ( E) allele for earthbending, which would make them an earthbender by genetics. But beyond that is where it gets tricky. A person has a 1 in 5 chance of being a bender by spirituality, because there are 4 elements and then the chance of being unaffiliated. So this is a 20% chance for being spiritually connected with any of those. If you take into account the spirituality and the genetics, this would give the person a 60% chance of being an earthbender. Now, if a person was born EE, they would probably have a greater chance of being spiritually connected to the earth element, but that's hard to say. Maybe a 67% (or more) chance of being a bender...? If a person was born ee, they would have a 10% chance of being an earthbender. Most likely a nonbender, in this case. OFC, this is all a theory, nothing for sure.
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ƒelinoel
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Post by ƒelinoel on Jun 30, 2008 17:04:45 GMT -5
^Then there has to be some way for the bending to be passed down other than teaching. Why is it that there are people who can't learn it now? I'm thinking that people were always benders, it's just that they did not realize their potential until watching the "original teachers" do it, and thus did they form their own techniques and moves. Still...I think bending is both a mixture of spirituality and genetics, maybe 70:30 respectively. Genetics determine a part your temperament (or basic personality) which is if you are able to develop your bending (how Zuko couldn't produce proper fire balls because he lost a reason or will, a part of his personality) while spirituality is if you "know" how to bend naturally, and if you were gifted with it from birth. Otherwise, we can't explain why some people bend and others don't =P All Air Nomads were airbenders because of their meditative life increasing their spirituality, but there of course were airbenders who were better then others, those better ones must have been natural benders, while others had to work hard to get good
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Post by hailstorm on Jul 3, 2008 15:46:58 GMT -5
Still...I think bending is both a mixture of spirituality and genetics, maybe 70:30 respectively. Genetics determine a part your temperament (or basic personality) which is if you are able to develop your bending (how Zuko couldn't produce proper fire balls because he lost a reason or will, a part of his personality) while spirituality is if you "know" how to bend naturally, and if you were gifted with it from birth. Otherwise, we can't explain why some people bend and others don't =P Our theories are similar, but slightly different. I'd think the genetics/spirituality thing is about 50:50. For example: If a person was born to a father that was EE and a mother that was ee, their genotype would be Ee. They have one recessive ( e) and one dominant ( E) allele for earthbending, which would make them an earthbender by genetics. But beyond that is where it gets tricky. A person has a 1 in 5 chance of being a bender by spirituality, because there are 4 elements and then the chance of being unaffiliated. So this is a 20% chance for being spiritually connected with any of those. If you take into account the spirituality and the genetics, this would give the person a 60% chance of being an earthbender. Now, if a person was born EE, they would probably have a greater chance of being spiritually connected to the earth element, but that's hard to say. Maybe a 67% (or more) chance of being a bender...? If a person was born ee, they would have a 10% chance of being an earthbender. Most likely a nonbender, in this case. OFC, this is all a theory, nothing for sure. I'd like the idea of 50/50, it's just at another forum, my theory was ripped to shreds at that slight mention :[ The only part about your theory that I question is the spirituality segment. I believe a bender from one nation can only bend the element of his nation :x although taking in the thought of two parents from different nations I'm going to go with Horyo's theory (the one he posted long ago) about how it works. I think he said FF=Dom firebender, WW=Dom waterbender, XX=nonbender Firebender Father and a waterbending mother have a child. The child can't bend both elements but to whichever one he is strongly affiliated to. Assuming bending genes are genetically dominant, when you have codominance of FW then spirituality factor kicks in, and rather than having the 1/20 chance of the 5 possibilities, I think you have 2/3 the chance of being a bender. 1/3=FX 1/3=WX 1/3=XX I think that's what he said, I can't recall. ^Then there has to be some way for the bending to be passed down other than teaching. Why is it that there are people who can't learn it now? I'm thinking that people were always benders, it's just that they did not realize their potential until watching the "original teachers" do it, and thus did they form their own techniques and moves. Still...I think bending is both a mixture of spirituality and genetics, maybe 70:30 respectively. Genetics determine a part your temperament (or basic personality) which is if you are able to develop your bending (how Zuko couldn't produce proper fire balls because he lost a reason or will, a part of his personality) while spirituality is if you "know" how to bend naturally, and if you were gifted with it from birth. Otherwise, we can't explain why some people bend and others don't =P All Air Nomads were airbenders because of their meditative life increasing their spirituality, but there of course were airbenders who were better then others, those better ones must have been natural benders, while others had to work hard to get good While the Air Nomads were spiritual, I believe a factor of genetics did come into play because the air nomads had a controlled set of "breeding." In this way, it was able to keep the supply of airbenders ongoing. Although this is just a theory-speculation. My original post was about how the first benders came to be. They must have been spiritually connected to nature, but as some could not bend, they invented. From their separate lines of...evolution or change (not Darwainian Evolution) they became more specialized and adept at what they were doing: benders to bending and nonbenders to other stuff.
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