Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
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Post by Zenjamin on Mar 29, 2008 22:24:53 GMT -5
?0_o?
I... *counts to ten*
whatever, you likely know what I would say, the thing(s) I would point out that shows the... sillyness of that logic, and in that instant specifically.
but I dont want to derail this thread... so PM me if you dont know what im talking about.
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Lisa31468
Haru
We all have to do our part to win this war.
Posts: 313
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Post by Lisa31468 on Mar 30, 2008 0:06:51 GMT -5
Wow, some many responses! Very cool! ZENJAMIN: How about at the end of S1 when she slammed Zuko into the snow after freeing Aang, and was ready to leave him for dead.LISA: An encasement in ice does not a death threat make. Katara specifically said she would 'end' Zuko in WAT. Z: Or even in the earlier fight when she encased him in ice, unconscious, for hours. I didn't exactly see her checking his vitals.
L: True, but she didn't know blood-bending then either. Dun, dun, dun...she actually has the power to 'end him' the hard way. L: I don't believe she's changed for the worse Z. I never said that. Z: I'm sorry if thats 'now' what you meant, some people do feel that way though (Zutarian's in particular have voiced their dislike for S3 Katara)L: I never say anything I don't really mean and I don't change my stance to placate other posters. I can respectfully agree to disagree while maintaining my view. I meant what I said and exactly what I implied, Katara is a lot grittier in S3, but I think that's a healthy change for her. She's not 'worse,' but she is scary and rampage-like, but in a good way. LOL Z: But I agree that Katara's drive has always been there. its just now more... focused.
L: We concur. I feel strongly that she was previously written off as being ONLY a healer, filled with rainbows and butterflies. Sokka was thoroughly impressed with her 'warrior-abilities' in the BB when she took down and intimated the crap out of the two Earthbending boys. Z: And in response to your post above, I feel it should be mentioned that, yes, Katara has always tried to be the responsible maternal one. All of her actions seemed to be careful and logical, except, when Aang is involved. That measured responsible side seems to get overridden when Aang wants to go to go to a Fire Festival, go "skinny dipping" swimming with his tattoos showing, invade the Earth palace to talk to the Earth King, etc...
L: We see eye-to-eye on this. I would have to agree that Katara often concedes to Aang's wishes. I see that as one-part love but also her deferring to him as he is the 'Avatar,' and well he should know what's best for their journey. Z: And let's not forget the "I will 'fracken' end you!" conversation.L: Yeah that's the 'homicidal-rampage-side' with a guest spot on CNN I mentioned in the earlier post. Scary, but a good scary for Katara. SIDENOTE: You know I'm not sure how other people roll here but I love ALL the Avatar characters equally. I mean I do gush over Zuko but that doesn't mean I'm anti-Katara in the least. Without Katara the Gaang would have died in the desert. Her motherliness has saved the Gaang's backside on more than one occasion. I really feel Katara is due to expand her character a little. She is growing and evolving and that's very exciting...a little scary but also exciting. If anything it promises to make the finale a rather epic win.
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Alleluia
Kyoshi Mai
Earthbending General of the Zutarian Army
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Posts: 2,384
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Post by Alleluia on Mar 30, 2008 12:29:56 GMT -5
I honestly doubt most of the fandom is anti-katara. She may not be their favorite out of the whole cast, but most still like her or are indifferent. I mean, Toph is my favorite, but I still think Katara is great, too.
And on topic, I agree she has gotten "grittier" in season 3(That's the perfect term. ^_^ Nice job, Lisa.) The qualities we see in her now have always had the potential to be there. That's what we have seen in season one and two. How she is now is a development, an extension, an out-growth of her personality. Its not like any of how she is acting came out of nowhere. It is that situations around Katara have changed and her actual personality is responding to it, not changing really, but only showing a new side.
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SpiritBender
Buzzard Wasp
Ya tvoy hozyayn!!! (May The Force serve you well...)
Posts: 537
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Post by SpiritBender on Mar 30, 2008 14:14:21 GMT -5
Reading over all of this, it seems strange to me that people don't realize that a character can be both compassionate and ferocious. Notice that Katara is fierce towards those who threaten her loved ones, and kind towards the people she cares about. In different contexts, different sides of her personality come out. The creators ALWAYS intended her to be a great warrior -- in the very first episode, they made a point of showing that she has a terrible temper and tremendous potential as a bender. The show has been a journey for ALL of the main characters -- not just Aang. Just as Aang has to realize his potential as the Avatar, Katara's journey is about realizing her potential as a bender and a warrior fighting for her tribe and the greater good of the world. Katara's character is one of the most balanced and complete on the show. The only mistake you could say the creators made with her is that they had her advance too quickly. Katara would have drawn much less flak from the fandom if she had started out as an average bender and risen to a high skill level, rather than knowing almost nothing and becoming a master in one season.
The most outstanding feature of Katara's personality is her advanced maturity for her age, which is a product of living through a war. Not having lived through such a situation, many younger fans don't seem to realize that her development is very realistic under those circumstances. However, she's not perfect or complete yet, which is why we have emotional outbursts and scenes where she loses her temper or acts out. She's far from perfect, and it's utterly ridiculous that so many people accuse her of being portrayed as such.
-- SpiritBender
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Lisa31468
Haru
We all have to do our part to win this war.
Posts: 313
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Post by Lisa31468 on Mar 30, 2008 17:14:17 GMT -5
I honestly doubt most of the fandom is anti-katara. She may not be their favorite out of the whole cast, but most still like her or are indifferent. I mean, Toph is my favorite, but I still think Katara is great, too. And on topic, I agree she has gotten "grittier" in season 3(That's the perfect term. ^_^ Nice job, Lisa.) The qualities we see in her now have always had the potential to be there. That's what we have seen in season one and two. How she is now is a development, an extension, an out-growth of her personality. Its not like any of how she is acting came out of nowhere. It is that situations around Katara have changed and her actual personality is responding to it, not changing really, but only showing a new side. Yeah what Alleluia said. Re: "It is that situations around Katara have changed and her actual personality is responding to it, not changing really, but showing a new side." I would completely agree with this. I think she's always had this warrioress side to herself with fierce 'Inuit Water Tribe' blood coursing through her veins. First glimpse of this was apparent in 'The Waterbending Master' when she went head-to-head with Master Pakku. Maybe what everyone here is really debating is the language being used to define the word "changed." I say Katara has 'changed' over the course of Avatar seasons but I mean that she has evolved by leaps and bounds as a character, not that she's gone through some kind of inner genetic mutation of an accidental insect bite. LOL
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Mar 30, 2008 19:58:34 GMT -5
I feel this would be quite relevant.
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Post by nymphadora on Mar 30, 2008 20:48:02 GMT -5
^^Um, I'd give a warning for language there....
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
Toko supporter
Posts: 2,617
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Post by Zenjamin on Mar 30, 2008 21:37:16 GMT -5
It does have a warning for language in its description, I didnt do a direct link.
but still.
/language warning
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melloyello
Appa
Beware the Chittering Monkey
Posts: 229
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Post by melloyello on Apr 4, 2008 20:56:49 GMT -5
Personally, I dislike the direction Katara's personality has taken this season. I have interpeted her actions/words as stemming from anger and bitterness, not fierceness or maternal protectiveness. Nothing is sadder than watching someone lose innocence and hope, and I feel that's what Katara has lost in this season.
I realize some people feel that her experiences have made her a stronger person, but I don't see it this way. I think they've hurt her deeply, and have eclipsed the lighter side of her personality. I would really like to see these feelings dealt with so that she ends the series in a happier place. (Ending the war isn't going to magically resolve her emotions, just like having her dad back didn't take away the anger she had at his absence.)
There is a disturbing admiration for fierce warrior-like behaviour in our society that doesn't need to be encouraged by the media. I don't like the idea of a 14 year old heroine being portrayed as an embittered, battle hardened warrior. It's one thing for a villaness to display hatred/desire for violence, as kids don't look up to a villian. But Katara was supposed to be a role model for kids, and I don't like the idea of kids seeing Katara make death threats and thinking she's one of the 'good guys'.
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Post by deana on Apr 4, 2008 22:43:17 GMT -5
I do agree with you melloyello. You have made me think. I think somewhere along the way, Katara became bitter and anger. The gaang is acting like she is the same but she is not. The situation with Hama did not help Katara's situation. Hama may have shattered the peace Katara got from her reconciliation with her father. I don't believe her threats in WAT were just being protective of Aang. If that were the case, she would've tagged along on that firebending quest, to protect him from Zuko. She is bitter, spiteful, and angry. I think that is why there is so much emphasis on her treatment of Hakoda (first episode) and Zuko. It is so we all can really see the change. Since Katara is momma of the gaang, which was made obvious to her in The Runaway, who can she talk to so she can vent? Maybe Haru will approach her on this subject. She inspired him a lot, and to see her being so spiteful and bitter should shock/sadden him.
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luna
Appa
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Post by luna on Apr 4, 2008 23:33:24 GMT -5
Ah, I don't like not liking Katara. I like her less every episode, and I have heard others say the same. I think the writers had no intention of this. Anyway, she's definitely going to have to use Bloodbending, and at a critical moment. Possibly on Ozai.
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Post by deana on Apr 5, 2008 15:06:44 GMT -5
That would make me dislike Katara and Aang because Ozai is Aang's opponent. It would be lame and another moment like an COD when Aang proves incompetent and Katara has to literally bring him back to life with magic water. Katara bloodbending Ozai to protect/help a being who should be able to defeat him by himself, would be reason enough to hate both characters.
I believe she will use it like Hama and get her Dad and the others out of prison.
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Alleluia
Kyoshi Mai
Earthbending General of the Zutarian Army
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Post by Alleluia on Apr 5, 2008 22:58:41 GMT -5
I totally agree that Katara has been shown to be embittered this season. I think that the writers *did* intend for it to be this way though. She is supposed to seem harsh and angry and snarky(and not in a good way). It proves, to me, that those betrayals she has experienced the last two seasons, first Jet, then Zuko, really affected her. And Hama was the latest and hurt a great deal, too.
I think this is a realistic progression for her to go through at the moment considering all thats occured to her. I also think her base personality, the kind and compassionate Katara, will come out in the end more vibrant because its been tested the way it has. Lets be realistic. They aren't going ot leave her this way, basically because, as a rule, people are not supposed to hate one another. Especially not the good guys. Katara is on that path right now but there is no way she, as a heroine, will stay on that path. She will end up forgiving the transgressions against her and rising beyond it.
This bitterness now is a means to an end. And that end is a stronger more vibrant woman, even more compassionate then before.
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Zenjamin
Ba Sing Se Zuko
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Post by Zenjamin on Apr 6, 2008 0:13:25 GMT -5
I would again like to point out that this is all just a matter of opinion.
If I cared deeply for someone, and the selfish actions of another person but his/her life in danger. I would be more then ticked. I would consider it my duty to ensure it does not happen again. by any means nessacary.
if over an extended period of Time, said person proved to be trustworthy, and whose actions are no longer endangering to others, I would forgive them.
In this I belive myself to be a completely healthy human being, in no need of change.
and katara seems keeping with this pattern.
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Alleluia
Kyoshi Mai
Earthbending General of the Zutarian Army
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Post by Alleluia on Apr 6, 2008 2:45:39 GMT -5
The one flaw with that logic is the fact that she didn't acompany Aang and Zuko to the Fire Temple two days later. If her only concern in that threat was insuring protection of Aang, it makes no sense that she wouldn't go with them and make sure Zuko didn't kill him. I think a large part of her death threat, as well as the personal nature of the atacks in the actual threat ("we both know you've had problems choosing the right thing before" [paraphrase]), indicates to me that Zuko and the grudge she holds for him was the main reason she was making that threat.
Obviously, protecting Aang is her number one priority. I mean, he's Aang. But the reason she considers a death threat to be the lengths to which she needs to go to do so is a direct result of her trust being betrayed as much as it has lately. Its the method of someone bitter and angry, and Katara can't stay that way thru the show. So, somehow that will be resolved. And then, she will be matured, but not bitter or angry beyond reason anymore. All part of the development.
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