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Post by thedudeishere on Nov 1, 2006 21:59:40 GMT -5
Still the bible is a matter of interperatation, each sect has its own look at it. True, but that doesn't really say anything about the Bible's validity, IMO. The Unitarians, for instance, don't believe that Jesus was divine, despite all the contrary evidence in the NT. I know that sounds arrogant, but the divinity of Jesus is screamed by the NT. The New Testament refers to Jesus as "kurios", which is a Hebrew replacement for "YHWH" (the divine name of God) on a number of times, including the book of James, which dates to about 48 AD (which is interesting since it's proof that the Christians worshipped Jesus as God just fifteen years after his death) I'm just saying that people will disagree over anything, no matter how obvious it is.
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Growly
DOBS Katara
The Jester of Multishipping
The Mod behind the Myth
Posts: 6,059
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Post by Growly on Nov 2, 2006 12:11:25 GMT -5
I dislike the bible - not for any particular content within it, but for the way people are constantly using it as an excuse or a solution for everything. I'm not Christian and I don't like the way that several Christians will fall back on the argument "it's in the Bible, and therefore it's true". More wars have been started in the name of Religion (and quite a few because of Christianity) than over many many other things. I believe people should be allowed to have their own personal beliefs as long as it's not hurting anyone else. After all, we won't know for sure who's right until we're all dead and gone anyway. To all those Christians out there who may want to try converting me: Don't bother. My soul is none of your d*** business.
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smurfje
Haru
I hate you too, honey
Posts: 347
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Post by smurfje on Nov 2, 2006 15:59:49 GMT -5
I am a conservative christian, very conservative. I go to the mis every sunday, and I've been, as we call it in Dutch, 'misdinette' (that's someone who assist the priest) for 8 years. I was pretty good in messing up the mis I agree with you, Growly, that you must not quote everything from the bible and use is as an excuse to do something. I believe that the bible is a guideline who helps you finding the right way. It doesn't matter if you believe in Buddha, Brahman, Allah, God or Jawhe, because they all say the same thing: believe in me, believe in yourself, and you will do the right thing. Amen
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Post by thedudeishere on Nov 3, 2006 16:50:54 GMT -5
I am a conservative christian, very conservative. I go to the mis every sunday, and I've been, as we call it in Dutch, 'misdinette' (that's someone who assist the priest) for 8 years. I was pretty good in messing up the mis I agree with you, Growly, that you must not quote everything from the bible and use is as an excuse to do something. I believe that the bible is a guideline who helps you finding the right way. It doesn't matter if you believe in Buddha, Brahman, Allah, God or Jawhe, because they all say the same thing: believe in me, believe in yourself, and you will do the right thing. Amen Wait, you're a conservative Christian, but you think any religion will get you to heaven? That isn't very conservative.
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raiondoll
Sad Festival Mask
"formerly Mitsu"
Posts: 3,719
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Post by raiondoll on Nov 4, 2006 3:25:03 GMT -5
I'm a Roman Catholic, who attends a bible study for teens at a Christian church at New Hope every Friday night. It's not really a bible study, but they do have several topics that talk about teen issues and they pull out some verses from the bible that helps us have a better understanding about our problems. Like, divorce, relationships with your parents, ect.
I take the Ten Commandments seriously and nothing else. I support homosexuality, even though the bible says it's wrong. It's still considered love. I don't follow everything the bible says. Like Growly said, "People should be allowed to have their own personal beliefs as long as it's not hurting anyone else. " I too believe that the bible and God himself is like a spiritual guideline.
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Post by Westeh on Nov 4, 2006 3:41:45 GMT -5
I'm Catholic, and I believe that the Bible should be taken seriously, but not on the point of fanaticism. For example, in Leviticus, it is said that people should not eat unclean animals. I think that in those days, people would have observed others eating (let's use pork as an example) pork, and then getting sick. Nowadays, we know pork can give you trichinosis if not cooked properly. Back then, I seriously doubt people had Kenmore ovens, so it is very likely that some people did not cook their food properly and did end up with parasites. To prevent more people from getting sick (since they probably didn't know everything we know now about trichinosis), they would have put something like that in the Bible.
All I'm trying to say is that as mankind's knowledge grows, our interpretations of the Bible change. That's just my opinion, though.
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Zink
Ty Lee
"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
Posts: 4,279
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Post by Zink on Nov 4, 2006 11:15:52 GMT -5
^ I agree, and that's why I think anti-homosexuals shouldn't use Leviticus in their arguments. STD's can be transmitted through gay sex (well, in any kind of sex, but I understand it's more common for homosexuals) As several members have pointed out, there are other references to homosexuality being a bad thing in the New Testament. It's not reasonable that protesters use the ban on homosexuality in Leviticus when they go home right after and eat a hog dog. In my opinion, if you want to use the Old Testament in your debate against homosexuality, you should follow every rule alongside it. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite, and anyone who's read the New Testament knows how Jesus feels about those.
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Wilderness Writer
Wolf Sokka
Zutarian Propaganda Writer
~Weaver of Words~
Posts: 2,802
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Post by Wilderness Writer on Nov 4, 2006 20:58:05 GMT -5
lol, I love your name, smurfje. It sounds so cute. Something I've noticed that is at the heart of this thread is actually the definition of Christianity. What does it mean to be a Christian? A Fundamental? A Liberal? A Conservative? Clearing up any confusion will help the discussion along. Let's start with conservative. Conservative Christianity is a way of life, and a way of believing. Although attending and helping out at church is a part of it, it does not define you as a conservative. Conservatives believe and practice the following things: 1. The inerrancy of the Bible. A Conservative Christian believes that the Bible is absolutely true and applicable to life today. They believe that it was given by God, written through the hands of men. They believe that it is literal, not a metaphor or a book of suggestions. 2. Salvation through grace. This means that salvation is given through belief in Jesus Christ, not through doing good things. A conservative believes that there is no other way to heaven except through Jesus, as taught in the Bible: "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. " -John 14:6 3. Conservatives strive to follow the commands of the Bible, abstaining from anything the Bible says is a sin, and striving to follow the life of compassion, mercy, and purity that Jesus led. This doesn't mean we're sinless, just repentant. It means that we strive not to let sin have mastery over us. "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" Romans 6:16 For further information on Conservative Christians, you can view en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_ChristianityA Fundamentalist Christian is very conservative. Bob Jones university is an example of a fundamentalist view. A Funamentalist is characterized by a very rigid standard of conduct, sometimes abstaining from secular music, sometimes following a very strict code of dress (some fundamentalist women I know will only wear dresses, no pants.), and aspiring to live as pure and Godly a life as possible. I go to a fundamentalist church, and love it. It's not weird or boring or dumb. It's just people trying to live as pure a life as possible. I would like to add a third type of 'Christian' that many of you are probably thinking of. These people are the ones that have misrepresented Christianity to the world and given Christians a bad name as being self-righteous and haughty. A lot of people point to the religeous wars back in the middle ages as an example of 'Christian hatred.' The truth is, those wars were fueled by power-hungry leaders who used religeon to further their own ends. Jesus NEVER taught us to force people to believe in him. It MUST be your own choice. A Christian is commanded to Evangelize. That means they are taught to reach out and tell other people about what and why they believe. But they are never to force anyone to believe the way they do. That is completely against Jesus' teaching. Some 'Christians' act self-righteous and hateful toward other people. The truth is, Christians are never to hate, and they are to remember that they still struggle with sin, and to remain humble and ever striving to walk closer to God. This does not mean that we can't take a stand on sin. Here are some examples: Saying "I think abortion is a sin because the Bible values all human life." and reaching out in love to the mother of an unwanted pregnancy and lovingly counseling her to think about carrying the baby to term is an example of Christianity. Saying "I hate those stupid abortionists. They should all die!" and firebombing an abortionist clinic is not at all what Jesus teaches. Saying "The New Testament teaches that homosexuality is a sin." and then explaining why you hold that belief in a gentle and intellegent manner with love and respect toward a homosexual is an example of Christianity. Saying "Homosexuality is stupid." and acting hatefully toward a homosexual is not Christianity. There are other ways of belief as well that fall within the 'Christian' label, but I feel I have the most experience with the conservative/fundamentalist way of belief, and so I thought I'd cover it. Tertius, you've proven yourself to be a thoughtful and intellegent speaker, so if you would like to add to anything I've missed, I would be very thankful.
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Post by Manabe on Nov 9, 2006 17:35:47 GMT -5
I honestly can't say I'm any certain religion. I get very confused on atheist and Christian, so my friend and I call each other Freegions. (our stupid play on "free of religion"). I don't follow anything, nor believe what anyone tells me is right. Here we go: I believe in God I believe in Jesus I don't try to understand things Jesus may have done. Because I don't really care, I believe in him and that's all I care about. I don't believe in hell. I believe heaven will be what you perceive it to be. I believe very strongly in pure belief, and the law of attraction. I know half or more of you have no idea what I'm talking about so click. www.hamptonroadspub.com/book/76www.the-secret-dvd.net/^ Those two items are about how energy truly affects you. I love Neale Donald Walsh's books. I perceive God in the way I want. I don't believe in a God that punishes. I don't believe in asking for forgiveness from God. ^ I know people will get mad at me for that one. Let me explain: God "created" us in the image and likeliness of himself. He gave us free will do what we wanted. Why would he punish us for something he gave us permission to do? Okay, he didn't "directly" give us permission. But he gave us the free will to do it. I believe you should ask for forgiveness from the person you have wronged. I have a million other things i could write, but I'm getting a little down on typing. Maybe I'll finish later on. Anyway, no bashing please. Your beliefs are yours, mine are mine.
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litho
Haru
glowing it up!
Posts: 308
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Post by litho on Nov 11, 2006 18:16:57 GMT -5
"8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You'd probably know the nickname better- Mormons. Someone decided to call us that because of the book we read as a supplement to the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon. I beleive in what the Bible has to tell us- that Christ lived, died, and lives again in a perfected, immortal state. I beleive that I have a Father in Heaven who loves the peoples of the world and would lead us back to Him if we would only beleive and follow His teachings. However, the Bible has been through many translations, and has been altered by many people. In some instances, the Bible was translated through concensus, where a gathering of religious officials would litterally vote on what was correct and should be put in the new translation. This and the simple difficulty of direct translation from another language have made the Bible oddly worded in many places, and missing essential parts. When I read the Bible, I always approach it with a prayer to my Heavenly Father to help me learn what I need to know and to see the truth in what might otherwise seem nonesense to me. The Bible does contain the true words of God, and I do apply the things I learn from it in my life. It is intended to guide us through this world, back to Him.
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Post by mikael on Nov 11, 2006 19:59:06 GMT -5
My entire issue with the Bible is that it has led people to believe (KEY WORD) that there are supernatural forces, and that there is somehow a better life after this one.
Isn't this one enough? Can't you do good for the sake of doing good and not eternal reward?
I don't believe is there is a god; However, that doesn't mean I believe there is no god. I just don't know, and don't care. My life is enough, and if I can't explain something, then it's beyond my understanding, not a result of a god doing something.
Congratulations on being strung along on a 4000-5000 year old version of scientology.
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Wilderness Writer
Wolf Sokka
Zutarian Propaganda Writer
~Weaver of Words~
Posts: 2,802
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Post by Wilderness Writer on Nov 11, 2006 20:46:21 GMT -5
Oln, we would appreciate if you keep your conversation civil and respectful. No one is putting down atheists or your beliefs, so we would all appreciate if you can manage to show the same amount of respect to the rest of us. This is a friendly discussion, let's keep it that way.
No one has been 'strung along'. Just because we do not believe the same way you do does not make our beliefs fallacious. I have chosen to believe in Christianity after a good look at athiesim, catholicism, buddhism, and the new age movement.
I chose not to be athiest because I felt that to be so would be to be without hope. To think that this life is all there is and that when I die I will be dissolved in a sea of nothingness is a sad and lonely thing.
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Grandi
Bato
Prince of All Cosmos
Posts: 603
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Post by Grandi on Nov 11, 2006 20:50:55 GMT -5
I chose not to be athiest because I felt that to be so would be to be without hope. To think that this life is all there is and that when I die I will be dissolved in a sea of nothingness is a sad and lonely thing. Actually, I find it practical and invigorating. This is my life, the only one I have. I'll live it to my own standards and have the best time I can without worrying what diety I might be defying. I'll experiment with whatever I feel like and do pretty much anything I want. I can't imagine living my life any other way.
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Post by mikael on Nov 11, 2006 20:58:53 GMT -5
I am not without hope. I am without fear. The need for another chance, another go is fear of being able to let go of the life you had.
I like being accountable for my actions now; Not at a later point where my soul is condemned one way or another.
And you put me in the wrong category. It's not that I believe one way or the other; it's just that I don't believe anything. I go by the facts life puts in front of me, not by the words in a book that could have come from any source at any point in the past.
As for my hatred of religion... More mass killing has been done in the name of religion than for any other reason, purpose, or otherwise. If religion wasn't just another way for people to discriminate, I wouldn't have so much of an issue with it.
EDIT: To clarifyl I hate religion, not the people who practice it. I do, however, regret that some of the smartest people I've known, talked to, or been aqquainted with have to believe that something controls their life other than themselves.
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Post by beautyfr.pain on Nov 11, 2006 22:02:16 GMT -5
I remember back in fifth grade, a girl checked out a book on Jesus. I decided to start a conversation with her and mentioned if she was going to do her biography on Jesus for our English project. Then she asked me: "do you know who this is?" [does anyone else hate it when people automatically assume you're buddhist b/c you're asian?]
[I'm a Christian, specifically Baptist.]
When it comes to my faith, I truly believe that I do not hate anyone. I don't just pose and say that b/c the Bible says to love everyone.
As I grow older and gain more...wisdom, i guess you could say, I start to realize some things about the Bible I didn't before.
Example: Adam and Eve. I'm starting to believe that it was metaphoric. A lot of Bible was, right?
And you know how fortune cookies/tellers predictions usually come true b/c they're so vague? The prophesies of Jesus' Second Coming is starting to sound like that to me.
I don't believe in homosexuality either. Even if I weren't Christian, I think I'd still believe that love were meant for man and woman. It's a bit like Yin and Yang...[sorry for the crude metaphor but] you can't make your computer work if u have two plugs or two outlits, can you?
[semi-OT] I don't believe in saying ANYTHING is perfect, because I know in my heart only God and Jesus can be perfect. When we see a sig that someone made when we requested or we make a 100, i can't bring myself to say it's "perfect".
And if anyone's interested on youth pastor's philosophy on Christianity and Religion: Religion - doing good things to be accepted Christianity - doing good things BECAUSE you are forgiven Conclusion: Christianity is NOT a Religion
Heh...that really uplifts my soul for some reason.
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